themetallikid Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 So my group is wanting to do 'Hella Good' by No Doubt. We have 2 guitars in this band, the other guy will be taking the parts I used to do (20 years ago) when this came out. So I'd like to try and get some ear candy stuff. Welcome to synth world I'm thinking. Also, I'm an synth-idiot. Are there any good resources to help me find what I'm looking for? I've played with synth stuff a bit, but usually frustrated in about 0.5 seconds and generally dont find it useful for most of my needs. Listening to the song, here are the sounds I hear. I dont know much of anything about the synth blocks, how much DSP they use, parameters or anything. I'm fine with playing around with them for sure, I'm not asking for a free handout....Here are the sounds I hear that I'd need: Intro synth verse synth verse synth 2 - higher octave? chorus synth - bit crusher? Talkbox synth keys lead whammy dive The talkbox is easy enough, I think the chorus synth/bitcrusher could be easy to find. Whammy dive...no problem....more than likely. Any other tips or resources on youtube to learn more about these blocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 2 hours ago, themetallikid said: Any other tips or resources on youtube to learn more about these blocks? Hi, This young guy has quite a good take on the Pat Metheny guitar synth tone, if it is of any interest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theElevators Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 3 hours ago, themetallikid said: So my group is wanting to do 'Hella Good' by No Doubt. We have 2 guitars in this band, the other guy will be taking the parts I used to do (20 years ago) when this came out. So I'd like to try and get some ear candy stuff. Welcome to synth world I'm thinking. Also, I'm an synth-idiot. Are there any good resources to help me find what I'm looking for? I've played with synth stuff a bit, but usually frustrated in about 0.5 seconds and generally dont find it useful for most of my needs. Listening to the song, here are the sounds I hear. I dont know much of anything about the synth blocks, how much DSP they use, parameters or anything. I'm fine with playing around with them for sure, I'm not asking for a free handout....Here are the sounds I hear that I'd need: Intro synth verse synth verse synth 2 - higher octave? chorus synth - bit crusher? Talkbox synth keys lead whammy dive The talkbox is easy enough, I think the chorus synth/bitcrusher could be easy to find. Whammy dive...no problem....more than likely. Any other tips or resources on youtube to learn more about these blocks? I played this song 20 years ago before I had the Helix, and coincidentally I play it now with my cover band where we also don't have keys most of the time. Back then and now, I get by with wah-wah for most of the sounds. You can also use filters and stuff, because synths on the Helix are very very temperamental and not really reliable. I have auto-engaged wah-wah that turns off when I put the pedal into the heel position and do a lot of scratching / individual notes for the synths. If you move the wah slowly vs. fast you can mimic various sound effects. In short, I personally think it's impossible to copy all the sounds to sound like the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share Posted February 15, 2022 13 minutes ago, theElevators said: I played this song 20 years ago before I had the Helix, and coincidentally I play it now with my cover band where we also don't have keys most of the time. Back then and now, I get by with wah-wah for most of the sounds. You can also use filters and stuff, because synths on the Helix are very very temperamental and not really reliable. I have auto-engaged wah-wah that turns off when I put the pedal into the heel position and do a lot of scratching / individual notes for the synths. If you move the wah slowly vs. fast you can mimic various sound effects. In short, I personally think it's impossible to copy all the sounds to sound like the record. Appreciate that, I'll consider defeat on this endeavor....lol. I like the challenge to see what I come up with. If its interesting I'll post it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 @themetallikid I come from an 80's synth background... and with an initial listen to this song, I'd simply turn to the the latest "legacy synths" added with 3.15 along with a few effects. I hear various "sine/sawtooth/square" waves throughout the song... it might take some trial & error, but I can't see why any of those sounds wouldn't be possible. The might not be "perfect", but they should be close. Can you differentiate the sounds in the song.... the "Sine, Sawtooth, Triangle, Square"? Those are sounds I can hear instantly both in the song & and in the legacy synths.... but if you are not familiar with them this entire endeavor might be much more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 I guess thats what I'm asking, is there a good 'Synth for idiots' tutorial somewhere that I can learn about them? I understand what they are visually (well, sorta) but audibly I dont know what they relate to. So while I hear something, I dont have the attachment to knowledge to hear what your hearing and match it to something. And thats all I'm trying to do with this is produce songs that are close enough that people will forget we dont have a keyboard/synth player, other musicians may look and be like, wow thats impressive to cover that much material in this song with no keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotterp Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 3 hours ago, themetallikid said: I guess thats what I'm asking, is there a good 'Synth for idiots' tutorial somewhere that I can learn about them? I understand what they are visually (well, sorta) but audibly I dont know what they relate to. So while I hear something, I dont have the attachment to knowledge to hear what your hearing and match it to something. And thats all I'm trying to do with this is produce songs that are close enough that people will forget we dont have a keyboard/synth player, other musicians may look and be like, wow thats impressive to cover that much material in this song with no keys. That's exactly how I feel. I don't know how to identify what the sound is. For a few years now, I have used external synths live and the reaction from people is always that they are impressed that I can do it, and that we don't use tracks to do it. I have used the EXH S9, Boss SY-300, and now a SY-200, and even Midi Guitar 2. Mostly because the built in synth is monophonic and I didn't want to take the time to create sounds from scratch. All of these have their own pros and cons. Being able to do it all within the Helix would be preferred for sure. The video above is going to get me to spend a bit more time to perhaps use some internal synths for the parts that monophonic is fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 3 hours ago, themetallikid said: I guess thats what I'm asking, is there a good 'Synth for idiots' tutorial somewhere that I can learn about them? Ahem, that’s why I posted the “Pat Metheny” synth video. If you watch how he puts it together, he swaps blocks for demonstrating some of the other waveform options. Basically, as you’re unfamiliar with the synth thing, you could start by experimenting using his technique with various synth blocks and see what you can create. I thought you were looking for a general approach to guitar synthesis. I have owned a Roland GR33 for years and fretting notes precisely is a big requirement - you have to change your approach to playing to prevent false triggering etc. You did state in your original post - “I'm not asking for a free handout...” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 I've used a talk box with the Helix utilizing the mic input. It worked GREAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codamedia Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 23 hours ago, themetallikid said: I guess thats what I'm asking, is there a good 'Synth for idiots' tutorial somewhere that I can learn about them? I understand what they are visually (well, sorta) but audibly I dont know what they relate to. So while I hear something, I dont have the attachment to knowledge to hear what your hearing and match it to something. It starts by being able to recognize the waveforms... Saw, Square, Sine, Triangle & Noise. Take a look at this video starting around 2:20.... He briefs over the different wave forms and lets you hear them... in a very basic/simplified tone. The very basics of a synth are as follows.... Oscillator = Wave Form, the basis of the entire tone. Synths will often have 2 or more oscillators - the above video has a primary then a sub oscillator Filters = Alter the tone of the wave form. Anything from musical notes to sirens to thunder & rain, etc...etc.... Envelopes = This is where you control the "attack, decay, sustain and release" of the notes. LFO's = this is used to control modulation and can often be assigned to control any portion of the synth.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Regarding what has recently been added to the Firmware - Johnnathan Cordy has a run through of what you can create now, with a little experimentation. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted February 26, 2022 Author Share Posted February 26, 2022 Ok, This is FAR from perfect, and it needs some finishing touches which I have not gotten to. However, I am struggling to get a good sound for that middle synth between the talkbox lines. I attached the preset and it works as follows (again, its not polished yet) snapshot 1 - Intro bassy synth (galloping sorta sound) - I play this on the 8th Fret - A string to help with attack staying clean snapshot 2 - Verse xylophone sorta synth - this is only used during verses. I play this on the 8th fret B string, not where I saw it tabbed up on 20th fret, hence the octave effect added to it. snapshot 3 - chorus synth - this mimics the bass/guitar lines so it doesnt need to be perfect, just dirty and synthy, its not there yet, but its workable for now. snapshot 4 - Lead - this affects everything after the split block on Path 2. Expression pedal 1 will swap between A/B paths at the split block with path B having the amp/cab routed to my talkbox on Send 1, Expression Pedal 2 will act as an auto engage for 5 blocks I currently have for the synth lead part. My navigation of this section of the song will be to pull Exp 1 to heel down to activate the talkbox path, while hanging on a note, I'll pull the expression pedal 2 to heel down which will activate those lines, when talkbox section is over, i go toe down on EXP 1 and the synth blocks are engaged already, then back to talkbox and both pedals end up toe down to go back to chorus type sound. I may be able to clean up that navigation a bit and drop a preset, but for now, this is how its working. What I'm looking for is help getting the solo synth sound between the talkbox parts. Any help on that? Hella Good.hlx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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