Helix Wah Setup Problem

[TimsonVomDach]

Hey people,

 

got a problem with setting up the wah pedal on my Helix.

 

My target is to set it up like Jonny in this video:

Line 6 Helix Wah settings TIPS and TRICKS. - YouTube

 

So for everybody who doesn't want to watch the video:

I want to work like my old Bad Horsie 2.

Selecting my wah pedal and chosing the Expression Pedal as the bypass switch on 0% (have tried with a little more % but it doesn't work either).

Min Position on about 15%.

With that setup it should automatically be activatet when I use the pedal and when it comes down to zero again or below the certain value that I choose for the position parameter it should be off.

 

And here's the problem when I set it up like that:

The wah is off in the beginning. When I use the expression pedal nothing happens.

When I reach my bypass value the wah is turned on. Then I can use it until I hit the bypass value again.

Then to activate it again I have to use the pedal and come down to the bypass value and so on and on.

 

Sometimes when I set my wah pedal up again the exact same way it works as it should until I change something.

But most of the time it only works as discribed above.

 

Has anybody any tipps for me?

[HonestOpinion]

On 2/19/2022 at 8:22 AM, TimsonVomDach said:

Hey people,

 

got a problem with setting up the wah pedal on my Helix.

 

My target is to set it up like Jonny in this video:

Line 6 Helix Wah settings TIPS and TRICKS. - YouTube

 

So for everybody who doesn't want to watch the video:

I want to work like my old Bad Horsie 2.

Selecting my wah pedal and chosing the Expression Pedal as the bypass switch on 0% (have tried with a little more % but it doesn't work either).

Min Position on about 15%.

With that setup it should automatically be activatet when I use the pedal and when it comes down to zero again or below the certain value that I choose for the position parameter it should be off.

 

And here's the problem when I set it up like that:

The wah is off in the beginning. When I use the expression pedal nothing happens.

When I reach my bypass value the wah is turned on. Then I can use it until I hit the bypass value again.

Then to activate it again I have to use the pedal and come down to the bypass value and so on and on.

 

Sometimes when I set my wah pedal up again the exact same way it works as it should until I change something.

But most of the time it only works as discribed above.

 

Has anybody any tipps for me?

 

Try changing the global setting for the EXP that you are using for the Wah. If you are using the default Helix assignation it will be 'EXP 1'. For example, set the global settings 'EXP Pedals' --> 'EXP 1 Pedal Position' = "Global".

[TimsonVomDach]

Thanks HonestOpinion for your tipp.

 

I have changed the setting as you suggested.

In both the presets where I want to user the wah like that it is set to EXP 2 so this is the one I changed to 'Global'. (Also tried it with 'Per Preset'. 'Per Snapshot' was the default entry)

But now things are getting more mysterious.

 

When I turn on the Helix the last of these two presets that I used before the shut down works as I desire.

The other one does the same thing like before.

And when I shut down on another preset and reboot one of the two presets is chosen by accident where the wah works like I wish to.

The other one is stillt in the mode like in the beginning.

 

Do you have any explanation for this?

[HonestOpinion]

5 hours ago, TimsonVomDach said:

Thanks HonestOpinion for your tipp.

 

I have changed the setting as you suggested.

In both the presets where I want to user the wah like that it is set to EXP 2 so this is the one I changed to 'Global'. (Also tried it with 'Per Preset'. 'Per Snapshot' was the default entry)

But now things are getting more mysterious.

 

When I turn on the Helix the last of these two presets that I used before the shut down works as I desire.

The other one does the same thing like before.

And when I shut down on another preset and reboot one of the two presets is chosen by accident where the wah works like I wish to.

The other one is stillt in the mode like in the beginning.

 

Do you have any explanation for this?

 

Below are some general guidelines that you may find useful, but you also may have discovered a legit bug in 3.15. I am seeing some buggy behavior in the wah/volume switching behavior on my device when I set up auto-engage on the Wah, even when I create a new preset from scratch. I am about to rerun the factory reset and restore again on my device (I ran it once already when I initially did the update). I will retest after that and get back to you.

 

Not sure I understand your scenario correctly. You refer to "shut down" and "reboot". Is the problem occurring when you actually power down and restart the Helix? Are you using snapshots? If so, it sounds like you may be using the terms preset and snapshot interchangeably. For example, are you saving a snapshot where you want the wah to come up engaged with the wah block active (not bypassed)?

 

You mention the Wah is on 'EXP 2'. Due to the way the Helix, by default, assigns the Volume block to 'EXP 2' and 'EXP 1' to the Wah, many players have found it a best practice not to fight the Helix and instead to just follow the default assignments. Assigning the Wah to 'EXP 2' has caused some Helix users to scratch their heads when they find themselves wrestling with mysterious issues that end up being rooted in problems with the assignments. 

[HonestOpinion]

Think I may have figured out why you are having an issue with auto-engage and this will impact all users on the 3.15 firmware who use this feature.  The key factor that may be missing in your preset would be the new 'Behavior' parameter when you set up auto-engage. This 'Behavior' parameter is brand new in the 3.15 firmware and profoundly impacts how auto-engage operates. If you for example want the Wah to engage when you move from the heel-down position past, for example, the 10% point, your settings should be the following (if you are using the Helix's default assignments of 'EXP 2' for volume and 'EXP 1' for Wah). If you don't use these, you can adjust accordingly using the parameters under 'Bypass Assign'.

 

Switch = "EXP Pedal 1"

Position = "10%" (or your preferred setting)

Wait = "300ms" (or your preferred setting)

Behavior = "Heel Down"  (this is the new parameter for auto-engage as of the 3.15 firmware)

 

From the 3.15 firmware update notes

 

• Bypass Assign > EXP Pedal 1/2 now has a new Behavior parameter to control how bypassing is handled. The default value "Toggle" behaves as this feature always has - bringing the pedal past threshold will toggle the block's bypass state from what it is currently (i.e. enable if currently bypassed and vice versa). "Toe Down" and "Heel Down" always bypass the block at the designated position, regardless of the block's starting state. So with "Heel Down" selected, the block will always enable when you cross the Position threshold and bypass when you return below it

 

I am going to post this up in a separate topic to draw more attention to it as I suspect many other users have already, or will be encountering this, in the near future.

[TimsonVomDach]

Thanks again for all the input!

 

I'm aware of the difference between snapshot an preset.

And as I'm pretty new to the Helix toppic I'm still working on my basic settings and have not made up any Snapshots yet.

 

With 'Shut down' and 'Reboot' I simply meant turning it off and on again ;-)

 

I now switched the wah pedal to EXP 1 und activated Heel Down in both presets.

But it still has the same effect. In one preset the wah works as it should and in the other one like i discribed in the beginning.

[HonestOpinion]

11 hours ago, TimsonVomDach said:

Thanks again for all the input!

 

I'm aware of the difference between snapshot an preset.

And as I'm pretty new to the Helix toppic I'm still working on my basic settings and have not made up any Snapshots yet.

 

With 'Shut down' and 'Reboot' I simply meant turning it off and on again ;-)

 

I now switched the wah pedal to EXP 1 und activated Heel Down in both presets.

But it still has the same effect. In one preset the wah works as it should and in the other one like i discribed in the beginning.

 

I watched the video and it has the Wah being set up on 'EXP 2' normally the default for the Volume block. Perfectly acceptable, but is it possible you subsequently tried to set up a Volume block and that is causing problems with the assignments? 

 

Sorry to hear this is still an issue. The problem you are encountering sounds a lot like the intended behavior of the Wah when 'Behavior' = "Toggle". At this point it might help if you upload the preset that is causing the problem with a very concise description, restated differently, of what the problem is. Unfortunately, I still remain unclear as to what exactly the issue is that you are encountering. It will be easier to just take a look at the preset. Btw, are you looking to have the Wah come up activated or bypassed when you bring up the preset?

[HonestOpinion]

Take a look at the video in the post from @theElevators. Could this be part of what you are observing?

[TimsonVomDach]

19 hours ago, HonestOpinion said:

 

I watched the video and it has the Wah being set up on 'EXP 2' normally the default for the Volume block. Perfectly acceptable, but is it possible you subsequently tried to set up a Volume block and that is causing problems with the assignments? 

 

Sorry to hear this is still an issue. The problem you are encountering sounds a lot like the intended behavior of the Wah when 'Behavior' = "Toggle". At this point it might help if you upload the preset that is causing the problem with a very concise description, restated differently, of what the problem is. Unfortunately, I still remain unclear as to what exactly the issue is that you are encountering. It will be easier to just take a look at the preset. Btw, are you looking to have the Wah come up activated or bypassed when you bring up the preset?

 

No, i did nothing including a volume block. I play in punk rock band we just have full volume or no volume ;-)

 

In the attachement are my two presets that make the trouble. Don't mind the names. Those are bavarian words ;-)

 

But with the video from your last comment and 'The problem you are encountering sounds a lot like the intended behavior of the Wah when 'Behavior' = "Toggle"' I have some new information:

At first, you are right with the description. So one preset allways works like in Jonnys video and the other one always toggles when i move it up and down.

Sorry for the confusion I didn't know how to describe it better.

 

And second, contrary to video you attached in your last comment when I change the behaviour of the bypass in HX Edit, change the preset and go back the behaviour always goes back to toggle. This happens in both of the presets and even when I save it.

So maybe this bug causes that my changes are not taken over correctly which leads to this mysterious manner.

 

The pedal should come up bypassed when changing to one of those presets.

DRUM SCHELLN.hlx MOTORSAECH.hlx

[HonestOpinion]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:05 AM, TimsonVomDach said:

 

...

 

And second, contrary to video you attached in your last comment when I change the behaviour of the bypass in HX Edit, change the preset and go back the behaviour always goes back to toggle. This happens in both of the presets and even when I save it.

So maybe this bug causes that my changes are not taken over correctly which leads to this mysterious manner.

 

DRUM SCHELLN.hlx 12.26 kB · 2 downloads MOTORSAECH.hlx 12.32 kB · 2 downloads

 

The first thing I noticed is your 'Position' parameter is set to 0% in these presets. You might want to consider changing that to something like 5%. Otherwise, any minute problem with pedal calibration or failure to press the pedal all the way heel-down may cause the bypass not to function properly. Noticed also you have your Wah's Level parameter assigned to the expression pedal. Can see that being potentially useful.

 

I uploaded your presets and began testing them. When I change the 'Behavior' in one preset it also changes the 'Behavior' in the other(s). I am referring to the actual value, of the parameter e.g. Toggle, Heel Down, or Toe Down. This occurs with or without a save. This is as described in the video @theElevators posted. If you are not seeing this happen, I would recommend doing a Factory reset and restore. This is just addressing how the 'Behavior' parameter should be seen to act in the 3.15 firmware(bug or not). We are not yet addressing the issue of when the Wah engages/bypasses.

 

 

On 2/24/2022 at 9:05 AM, TimsonVomDach said:

 

...

 

The pedal should come up bypassed when changing to one of those presets.

DRUM SCHELLN.hlx 12.26 kB · 2 downloads MOTORSAECH.hlx 12.32 kB · 2 downloads

 

There are several factors that impact the bypass state of the Wah in the preset when you either switch to the preset, or when you first start the Helix. One of the most important is how you have the 'EXP 1 Pedal Position' set, since you are not using snapshots yet, let's limit the discussion to "Global" or "Per Preset"

Let's use EXP 1 for global settings and the 'Behavior' = "Toggle" in the following examples per your presets:

 

The global setting --> 'EXP Pedals' --> 'EXP 1 Pedal Position' = "Global"

When the value is "Global" then the Wah will come up in the bypass state dependent on where the expression is set currently. This will apply whether you are first starting the Helix or switching from another preset. Additionally, the bypass state will be dependent on the value you have set in 'Behavior'. 

 

Just to throw another wrinkle into things, it would appear that if you use the Bypass button to manually set the state of the Wah while the 'Behavior' = "Toggle" and save the preset, that state will be remembered and your Wah will come up in the state you saved, again, dependent on the position of the expression pedal. In other words, Toggle can either bypass or engage as you rock the from heel-down to toe-Down and back, depending on how you manually set the state of the Wah with the Bypass button. The Helix will remember this after a save. 

 

I guess the thing to remember is that in the Toggle setting, depending on how the bypass state is set when you save, you can inadvertently reverse the expected bypass behavior on the expression pedal, next time you start the Helix or return to that preset. Helix remembers whether physically moving, for example, to the toe down position, was causing the Wah to engage or bypass! This applies whether you are set to "Global" or "Per Preset". Sorry to repeat this but it is not the behavior I would have anticipated. Before the 'Behavior' = 'Toggle' setting existed, you would have had do something like reverse the Min Value & Max Value under 'Controller Assign' to see behavior like this. This is new, and I suppose a shortcut of sorts.

 

The global setting --> 'EXP Pedals' --> 'EXP 1 Pedal Position' = "Per Preset"

When 'EXP 1' is set globally to "Per Preset". The bypass state of the Wah should come up in the state(and position) it was last saved. Regardless of where the pedal is physically positioned when you either first start the Helix or if you are switching from another preset. As far as the Helix is concerned, regardless of the physical position of your expression pedal, when you switch to a preset with your global set to "Per Preset", the virtual position of the expression pedal is where you last saved it.

 

When you are set to "Per Preset" most/all (?) of the same rules detailed in the "Global" section above apply to the Wah bypass state, with the exception of the fact that until you move the expression pedal, your bypass state is following the virtual position of the pedal in your last save.

 

Anyway, I could literally spend an entire day just troubleshooting/testing the Wah behavior, so I will stop here. If I had been formally tasked with testing this feature, I would spend considerably more time to ensure my results are accurate and persistent, but this is the best I have at the moment. I hope it helps cut through at least some small measure of the confusion. I will have to figure out how to trim this down in a more concise manner in the future.

 

Btw, I was able to have your presets behave in a predictable manner governed by the rules listed above if that is any consolation. I did not test as extensively with restarts as I did across presets, but the restart bypass states in the tests I did, looked correct to me. As I stated further up though, you may want to consider moving the 'Position' up to something like 5%. I should also mention that sometimes there is some slight latency that exceeds the Wait time when it is set low. Nothing that problematic but it just seems like on occasion it takes slightly longer than for example a set value of 300ms. I would rather expect that with many pieces of hardware, and I have not timed it, so it could just be my imagination.

[TimsonVomDach]

Thank you again for your effort!

I at least understand the different parameters better now.

Just have to go with little more trial and error and I'm pretty sure it will work after a little more corrections ;-)

 

[HonestOpinion]

3 hours ago, TimsonVomDach said:

Thank you again for your effort!

I at least understand the different parameters better now.

Just have to go with little more trial and error and I'm pretty sure it will work after a little more corrections ;-)

 

 

Good luck and keep us posted if you think you have spotted a legitimate bug. This firmware is still brand new and the interaction of the various parameters with the Wah, global, per preset, and per snapshot, are relatively involved. There are a lot of new potential scenarios with the addition of the 'Behavior' parameter, and even more so if you are using the 'Per Snapshot' global setting. A lot of potential permutations to test. The sooner the Line 6 community spots any issues the more likely they are to get resolved in an upcoming firmware release.