Jump to content

Switching from Volume to Wah


coachz
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm trying to use my Dunlop DVP5 expression pedal to also control wah by changing snapshots.  I want the volume to stay where it is  (say it was at 70 from 0 to 100 position) and switch to wah.  If I bypass the volume block in snapshot 2 it goes back to full volume and if I remove the volume controller for Snapshot 2 it is gone in Snapshot 1 also. 

 

Thank you for any ideas.

Snipaste_2022-03-09_10-46-16.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You need to have your expression pedal position "per preset" not "per snapshot".  Check global settings.  Otherwise, when you switch snapshots, your expression pedal will "jump" to the pre-saved state. 

 

I have my expression pedal work "per preset" for reasons you describe.  Some people may want it to jump to a pre-saved state in each snapshot.  208060205_ScreenShot2022-03-09at10_56_21AM.thumb.png.9fd3bd2c79c07a26d2b727a1b25fd1d0.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the reply but I'm still confused.    Is there a way to do what I'm trying to do?

 

Currently I have my volume Expression peddle set to global because I just want the volume to not jump around as I go from preset to preset.

 

I don't understand though how I can maintain the current volume position and switch to the wah block without having volume continue to move around as the pedal moves. Thanks for helping this noobie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/9/2022 at 11:07 AM, coachz said:

Thank you for the reply but I'm still confused.    Is there a way to do what I'm trying to do?

 

Currently I have my volume Expression peddle set to global because I just want the volume to not jump around as I go from preset to preset.

 

I don't understand though how I can maintain the current volume position and switch to the wah block without having volume continue to move around as the pedal moves. Thanks for helping this noobie.

In your preset/snapshots enable the wah, disable the volume.  Or disable the wah and enable the volume.  Don't have both enabled. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I called Line 6 to ask for help on this but no one is available today (4pm EST).  I then tried to text and get an agent and got the same message that no one is available.  Can anyone here help please ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/9/2022 at 4:00 PM, coachz said:

I called Line 6 to ask for help on this but no one is available today (4pm EST).  I then tried to text and get an agent and got the same message that no one is available.  Can anyone here help please ?

 

If you want the volume block to always reflect the position of the  expression pedal when you switch snapshots, set global settings --> 'EXP Pedals' --> 'EXP * Pedal Position' = "Global" for whichever EXP you are using the Volume block on.

 

When you change snapshots make sure you leave the Volume block active. This combined with the "Global" setting above will allow the Volume block to follow your current setting on the expression pedal. Conversely, the second you bypass the volume block, the snapshot will revert to the equivalent level of the Volume block at 100%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply but if I leave the Volume block active then when I operate the WAH, the volume will be going up and down which is no bueno.  I only have one Dunlop DVP5 on EXP1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/9/2022 at 4:12 PM, coachz said:

Thanks for the reply but if I leave the Volume block active then when I operate the WAH, the volume will be going up and down which is no bueno.  I only have one Dunlop DVP5 on EXP1

 

I see your dilemma. Have to ruminate on this one. My best suggestion currently would be to add a second expression pedal. Which HX device do you have?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/9/2022 at 1:34 PM, coachz said:

But when you bypass the volume the volume jumps up  from the level where the pedal left it

Well, you have one pedal and you want to control 2 things with it.  If you are concerned with a jump in volume when the wah is engaged, then how about you have another volume pedal that is left in a fixed position and not controlled by the expression pedal.  Take that block and bypass it/un-bypass it it when you engage/disengage the wah.  That way you have a volume match. 

 

 

Make sense? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That seems to be the "normal" way but I only want 1 pedal so if Helix can't accommodate a single pedal scenario I'll have to just dial in the max volume to the patch so I play with volume all the way up on that patch so WAH won't jump.   I was surprised the wah bypass Position, wait, behavior parameters didnt' allow me to turn the wah on and off with a single pedal.  It seems clear to me know that it is coded for 2 pedals.   I'll stick with one pedal and just adapt if no one else finds a trick.   Thanks !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/9/2022 at 4:46 PM, coachz said:

That seems to be the "normal" way but I only want 1 pedal so if Helix can't accommodate a single pedal scenario I'll have to just dial in the max volume to the patch so I play with volume all the way up on that patch so WAH won't jump.   I was surprised the wah bypass Position, wait, behavior parameters didnt' allow me to turn the wah on and off with a single pedal.  It seems clear to me know that it is coded for 2 pedals.   I'll stick with one pedal and just adapt if no one else finds a trick.   Thanks !

 

Something like an alternate toggle option to Active/Bypass on a Volume block would be helpful in accomplishing what you are trying to do. For example, , Active/"Bypass At Current Level"Either that or allowing the expression pedal assignment to change per snapshot.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

After thinking about this more I'm guessing that "Bypass At Current Level" would not be possible because it would require the volume block to be active for the level to be applied unless the coders can change levels in the path without a block being required.  Only they know that answer BUT, if they can control volume levels without blocks then they could do it.  What say you devs ?  Possible / Not Possible ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It looks like midi loopback will solve my problem and then I can simply send the midi commands with each snapshot.  When I want wah or reverb mix or any param to adjust I'll just dedicate a snapshot to  it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/2/2022 at 8:46 PM, coachz said:

It looks like midi loopback will solve my problem and then I can simply send the midi commands with each snapshot.  When I want wah or reverb mix or any param to adjust I'll just dedicate a snapshot to  it.

 

 

Cool, haven't seen that post in a while. Wonder if there is a more elegant way to do it in the most recent firmware version?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have midi loopback and it works for PC from instant commands in command center but when I send Command = "MIDI CC",  MIDI Ch = "Base",  CC# = 59,  Value = 0 I get no change from my pedal controlling exp2 to exp1
exp2 is volume and it just stays there even after sending the instant command.  Any ideas please how to get it to work ?

I am not using a footswitch, just a snapshot that sends the instant command when chosen.

Is this function supported in the Stomp XL ?

 

Turning on the tuner works if I add 50ms delay oddly.....

A CC68{value} command, sent with any value between 0 – 127, will toggle the Helix
tuner on/off

 

The joy of the Stomps are that they are so small.  Having to get a 2nd expression pedal is not desired here if at all possible.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My setup is a Dunlop DVP5 on the RING of an insert cable with nothing on the TIP.  I have FS7 and FS8 in globals set to TogglEXP but when I short the TIP the display says  "EXP 1 Active" but my wah on EXP 1 still doesn't get controlled by my pedal but the volume block on EXP 2 is still controlling POSITION.  My goal is to swap EXP2 with EXP1 on my pedal so I can control wah and do this sending an Instant Command on snapshot change. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/2/2022 at 8:46 PM, coachz said:

It looks like midi loopback will solve my problem and then I can simply send the midi commands with each snapshot.  When I want wah or reverb mix or any param to adjust I'll just dedicate a snapshot to  it.

 

 

On 4/3/2022 at 8:52 AM, coachz said:

I have midi loopback and it works for PC from instant commands in command center but when I send Command = "MIDI CC",  MIDI Ch = "Base",  CC# = 59,  Value = 0 I get no change from my pedal controlling exp2 to exp1
exp2 is volume and it just stays there even after sending the instant command.  Any ideas please how to get it to work ?

I am not using a footswitch, just a snapshot that sends the instant command when chosen.

Is this function supported in the Stomp XL ?

 

Turning on the tuner works if I add 50ms delay oddly.....

A CC68{value} command, sent with any value between 0 – 127, will toggle the Helix
tuner on/off

 

The joy of the Stomps are that they are so small.  Having to get a 2nd expression pedal is not desired here if at all possible.

 

 

 

 

Not sure if the expression pedal switching method provided in the "loopback tricks" post works with a Stomp XL. It was intended for use with a Helix or LT. Maybe our resident MIDI expert @rd2rkcan weigh in on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

your issue is similar to that of those who use the floor and have wah on 1 and vol on 2.

 

My answer is usually that every Vol/Wah pedal in history has the same "Issue".  Once you go toe down with the vol to switch on the wah, the vol is at max.

Ive worked with this for the first 20 off years of playing before going to modelers back in the nineties.  My solo vol (actually all my patches/snapshots) are designed to have the pedal full toe down.  I only use the pedal when I need to reduce vol for some reason.  So, switching to wah is not an issue.

Before I had separate rhythm patches or snapshots the only time I had to think about this was when using wah in a rhythm sound - in that case I would turn down on the guitar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply.  There seem to be a few issues. 

 

1.  ToggleEXP isn't working on my stomp xl.  I can toggle footswitch 7 and getthe display to show Exp 1 Active and Exp 2 active.  But control of my volume pedal on Ring of my insert cable [exp2, fs8)  Never passes from the volume block to controlling the wah block.  All globals are set correctly.

 

2.  Cc59 isn't supported in Stomp xl but only in helix.  This is really crappy.

 

Having this tiny stomp xl and being forced to use 2 expression pedals is silly when a bit of code can fix it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/5/2022 at 7:34 AM, coachz said:

Thanks for the reply.  There seem to be a few issues. 

 

1.  ToggleEXP isn't working on my stomp xl.  I can toggle footswitch 7 and getthe display to show Exp 1 Active and Exp 2 active.  But control of my volume pedal on Ring of my insert cable [exp2, fs8)  Never passes from the volume block to controlling the wah block.  All globals are set correctly.

 

2.  Cc59 isn't supported in Stomp xl but only in helix.  This is really crappy.

 

Having this tiny stomp xl and being forced to use 2 expression pedals is silly when a bit of code can fix it.

 

It appears that the CC is working to toggle from EXP 1 to EXP 2. Our overall strategy is to use a footswitch to activate/bypass the wah, leaving the volume block active, and simultaneously send a MIDI message via loopback to switch between EXP 2 and EXP 1. However, switching the EXP is only part of the equation. You must also get the expression pedal to control the desired block(Vol or Wah). This requires the correct 'Position' assignments for the EXPs (at least on the Helix/LT).

 

Little confused here by your mention of both "footswitch 7" in the beginning of your post and then you mention FS8 later, from this quote - "Ring of my insert cable [exp2, fs8)  Never passes from the volume block to controlling the wah block."  That sounds like an assignment issue right off the bat. The loopback method I detailed only uses one footswtich assignment for 'Bypass' to the Wah as the volume block is never bypassed.

 

As I don't own the Stomp XL, unfortunately I can't test this. As I mentioned earlier this loopback trick was intended for the Helix/LT. However, if you are getting the EXPs to change properly that is half the battle. It may be just that the expression pedal 'Position' assignments are not assigned in such a way as to change along with the 'Bypass' state to the corresponding block - volume or wah. If you have not already, take a look at  the assignments list under the 'Bypass / Controller Assign' tab in HX Edit and recheck the assignments. If the behavior of the Stomp XL mimics the Helix or LT (maybe it doesn't?) they should look like the following:

 

There should be three assignment entries only for both the volume and wah blocks - Wah Position = EXP1, WAH Bypass = FS7 (footswitch used in your example) and Volume Position = EXP2. Delete any other assignments for volume or wah blocks.

 

Without having a Stomp XL to test on this is probably as much guidance a I can provide. The Helix and LT switch internally for the built-in expression pedal. There is no guarantee that the switching for the external pedal required for the Stomp XL will behave identically.

 

Note: For any Stomp users that want to attempt this and don't want to track back through my old "MIDI Loopback Tricks..." post you will need to execute these two steps before trying this method:

  1. Set 'Global Settings' --> 'MIDI/Tempo' --> 'MIDI Thru' = "Off"          (This prevents runaway infinite loop MIDI funkiness when you are looping MIDI back into the Helix)
  2. Connect a MIDI cable from your Stomp's MIDI output and loop it back to your Stomp's MIDI input

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Here is my setup............
Dunlop DVP5     with invert switch pressed in expression pedal


Global Settings > Preferences
    EXP/FS Tip        FS7
    EXP/FS Ring        Exp 2
    
    Tip Polarity    Normal
    Ring Polarity    Inverted        for DVP5 pedal to control Volume block normally

Global Settings > Footswitches
    FS7 Function    ToggleExp    ........used for switch on FS 7
    FS8 Function    ToggleExp    ........used for Exp 2 on ring of insert
    
    
Global Settings > EXP Pedals
    EXP 1 Position        Global
    EXP 2 Position        Global
    
    
When FS7 is momentarily closed I see the Stomp XL display "EXP 1 Active" and with each switch it toggles between "EXP 2 Active" and "EXP 1 Active"


When I connect my midi out to midi in HX Edit goes offline and says "reconnect" at the bottom but won't come back online.   Disconnecting the midi loop fixes that.
    
Global Settings > Midi
        Midi Thru            Off
        RxMidi Clock        Off
        Tx Midi Clock        Off
        USB Midi            On
        Midi PC Rx            MIDI+USB
        Midi PC Tx            MIDI+USB
        Snapshot CC Send    ON                (tried both on and off)

 

         Also,  Snapshot CC Send does not appear to be documented anywhere.
    
Attached is my preset I've been testing on.

        
    
    

Vol Wah swap.hlx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/6/2022 at 11:20 AM, coachz said:


Here is my setup............
Dunlop DVP5     with invert switch pressed in expression pedal


Global Settings > Preferences
    EXP/FS Tip        FS7
    EXP/FS Ring        Exp 2
    
    Tip Polarity    Normal
    Ring Polarity    Inverted        for DVP5 pedal to control Volume block normally

Global Settings > Footswitches
    FS7 Function    ToggleExp    ........used for switch on FS 7
    FS8 Function    ToggleExp    ........used for Exp 2 on ring of insert
    
    
Global Settings > EXP Pedals
    EXP 1 Position        Global
    EXP 2 Position        Global
    
    
When FS7 is momentarily closed I see the Stomp XL display "EXP 1 Active" and with each switch it toggles between "EXP 2 Active" and "EXP 1 Active"


When I connect my midi out to midi in HX Edit goes offline and says "reconnect" at the bottom but won't come back online.   Disconnecting the midi loop fixes that.
    
Global Settings > Midi
        Midi Thru            Off
        RxMidi Clock        Off
        Tx Midi Clock        Off
        USB Midi            On
        Midi PC Rx            MIDI+USB
        Midi PC Tx            MIDI+USB
        Snapshot CC Send    ON                (tried both on and off)

 

         Also,  Snapshot CC Send does not appear to be documented anywhere.
    
Attached is my preset I've been testing on.

        
    
    

Vol Wah swap.hlx 6.17 kB · 0 downloads

 

Here is a link for MIDI commands for the Helix. Perhaps there are other more up to date resources available for the Stomp XL.

The Unofficial Helix MIDI Guide.pdf (dropbox.com)

 

Globals look right to me although I will have to rely on your settings for the EXP FS/Tip and Ring as I don't have the Stomp to test on. Seems like you got it right if the EXP is flipping from 1 to 2.

 

Downloaded your preset and made a few changes. Your MIDI command was being sent via Command Center from an 'Instant' (lighting bolt) command. You also had the CC set to "68". I changed it to "59" per my original "MIDI Loopback tricks.." post, and moved it off the instant command over to FS7 (per your intended setup). I also switched the active states such that hitting the footswitch labeled "Fassel" activates the wah while leaving the volume block active and on its most recent setting. That way the switch indicates visually when the Wah is active.

 

Everything is working as advertised on my end although I am using a Helix to test, where EXP 1 & EXP 2 are operating with a built-in expression pedal. No guarantee it will work on the Stomp XL. I have attached the preset. Give it a try. I think you are close to getting this working, but I could be wrong, if this just can't be pulled off with the Stomp or without some arcane wiring for the cable to the EXP input. Good luck!

 

Try the attached preset file below:

 

 

 

 

Vol Wah swap HO.hlx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the preset.  Unfortunately the Stomp XL doesn't want to play nice.   My goal is to have the Exp2 and Exp1 switch for my Dunlop DVP5 when snapshot changed but it seems the stomp doesn't support the CC commands.   So my next goal was to use FS7 to switch but no luck there either.  If I do MIDI LOOPBACK I get flashing of the wah block and it goes offline until I restart HX Edit.  It does not seem possible to do either way (snapshot preferable).   I'm open to any other ideas and thanks in advance.

 

 

Snipaste_2022-04-06_16-23-00.png

Snipaste_2022-04-06_16-24-45.png

licecap.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/6/2022 at 4:27 PM, coachz said:

Thanks for the preset.  Unfortunately the Stomp XL does'nt want to play nice.   My goal is to have the Exp2 and Exp1 switch for my Dunlop DVP5 when snapshot changed but it seems the stomp doesn't support the CC commands.   So my next goal was to use FS7 to switch but no luck there either.  If I do MIDI LOOPBACK I get flashing of the wah block and it goes offline until I restart HX Edit.  It does not seem possible to do either way (snapshot preferable).   I'm open to any other ideas and thanks in advance.

 

 

Snipaste_2022-04-06_16-23-00.png

Snipaste_2022-04-06_16-24-45.png

licecap.gif

 

Shouldn't be affecting this scenario but if this setting exists on the HX Stomp, set Global Settings-> 'MIDI/Tempo' -> 'Duplicate PC Send' = "OFF". It is on the second page of the MIDI global settings.

 

Is it possible you have a bad MIDI cable? The wah block blinking on and off almost seems as if a bypass CC is being sent constantly. Guess it could be something in the tip/ring settings or cabling as well. Does it blink when you don't have the expression pedal plugged in but still have the loopback connected?

 

Also, the Tip/Ring settings under Preferences that you describe on the Stomp, don't appear to be available on the Helix.  Is there an "EXP 1" setting available for 'EXP/FS Tip'? If so I might try setting 'EXP/FS Tip' = "EXP 1" instead of "FS7" under Preferences. If that didn't work I would try flipping the EXP 1 & 2 values for the tip and ring settings.

 

Btw, to further help avoid funkiness make sure the Stomp XL is off when you connect the loopback cable.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you again for the ideas.   

This is not in my Stomp XL
Global Settings-> 'MIDI/Tempo' -> 'Duplicate PC Send' 

I swapped the 20 ft midi cable I was using for loopback for a 1 foot one I soldered up and HX Edit is working now and not crashing.   Must have beens some "time domain reflectometery" going on there.  :-)

No luck getting the wah to work though.  The Multi Input block gets the focus though when I press switch FS 7.

I had started the Stomp XL with the loopback already connected.

With EXP/FS Tip set to FS7 the wah on EXP1 never gets controlled by the volume pedal.

With the FS 7 held down and EXP/FS Tip set to EXP 1 I can make it jump if I keep FS 7 latched on.  Tip Polarity set to Inverted and Normal just makes EXP1 jump around from 100 down to about 70 or from 0 to about 30.

licecap.gif

licecap2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/6/2022 at 6:54 PM, coachz said:

Thank you again for the ideas.   

This is not in my Stomp XL
Global Settings-> 'MIDI/Tempo' -> 'Duplicate PC Send' 

I swapped the 20 ft midi cable I was using for loopback for a 1 foot one I soldered up and HX Edit is working now and not crashing.   Must have beens some "time domain reflectometery" going on there.  :-)

No luck getting the wah to work though.  The Multi Input block gets the focus though when I press switch FS 7.

I had started the Stomp XL with the loopback already connected.

With EXP/FS Tip set to FS7 the wah on EXP1 never gets controlled by the volume pedal.

With the FS 7 held down and EXP/FS Tip set to EXP 1 I can make it jump if I keep FS 7 latched on.  Tip Polarity set to Inverted and Normal just makes EXP1 jump around from 100 down to about 70 or from 0 to about 30.

licecap.gif

licecap2.gif

 

Ah, disappointing to hear it is not working, at least on the Stomp. Good move on using a shorter MIDI cable. I use one that is less than a foot long, no problems. Still feel like the solution is in there somewhere for the Stomp with just the right combination of cabling and global and preset configuration. Maybe someone else will solve it or Line6 will offer up a configuration option in a future firmware that makes this straightforward. Good luck and let us know if you get it figured out or come across a better solution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the ideas.  I really love the idea of the stomp xl and one pedal.   I'm over 10 hours trying so far.  Josh with Line6 support is also trying to help.  Some of the things that could be so simple can be so elusive.   I really hope someone cracks this nut !    Grrrrrr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...