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HF Trim Test


rd2rk
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Along with a few others I've been going on about the HF Trim not working right.

One of the L6 folks asked me to post a demo preset.

Since my previous test presets were based on my normal kitchen sink configuration, I decided to build one from scratch with nothing but the basics - Amp and Helix Cab.

 

So here it is. But there's a problem.

Everything is working exactly as it should!

Baffled, I revisited my original test preset.

Everything is working exactly as it should!

 

I suspect that this is due to my having recently re-flashed the FW.

 

Something else I noticed while testing was that not having the PC Edit app open seemed to make a difference.

I've always tested with it open in the past due to the difficulty of looking at the little LED screen on the Powercab's top rear panel and having to spin the HF Trim dial 100 times vs using the slider in the app. Apparently, I was shooting myself in the foot.

The PC Edit app DOES SUCK!

 

Anyway, for anyone else who's been having fits over this, try the preset.

It uses L6 Link and it has 7 snapshots:

 

1) HX Cab - Flat/FRFR 4x12 Greenback 25

2) CabLF Flat - Flat/LF Flat 4x12 Greenback 25

3) CabLF Raw - Flat/LF Raw 4x12 Greenback 25

4) Speaker - emulation controlled from L6 Link with the Powercab Output Block settings 2xGREEN

5) PC Spkr Pr - this is the factory speaker preset 002 (Green)

6) UserIR Mid - Allure 67 Brit Greenback called via MIDI

7) UserIR Lnk - Allure 67 Brit Greenback called via L6 Link

 

If it turns out that the problem was due to the FW having gotten wonky over time I'm going to feel REALLY stupid. I'll also have a LOT of homework to do tracking down and updating all of my previous negative posts. OUCH!

 

Let me know how this works for you!

 

 

PC HF Trim Test.hlx

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Hi rd2rk
Sorry, don’t visit here as often as I would like to… and looks like I’m not the only one.

 

Anyway, I have followed this story (on TGP, but can’t find my way back to the original thread… to update my memory on the background) as I became an owner of the PC+ 112 a year ago. I had the ambition to use my PC+ in a more flexible way than I actually do today (onboard IR’s, speaker emulation etc.) (have a hard time to load/find IR’s with the right specs… and not that impressed of the speaker simulation, PC Edit have a lot to which for etc.). So, its FRFR via L6-Link/HX Edit thar rules at this moment. Hope one day L6 at least made a final update both of PC+ itself, the PC Edit and the integration to Helix/HXEdit. I really like the concept and what I am hearing but it definitely not letting me use the capabilities that’s hidden in there and some was functions I hoped was there.   

 

I can run some tests for you if it’s OK that I ask a few stupid questions first. 
a)    Get a feeling that bullet 6 uses MID, correct? I’ll try to fine my MIDI-cables… are in a box somewhere. Will the test fail if I can’t do the MIDI-test?
b)    Are there any global settings I need to set in my Helix or PC+ to get it to work? EG I guess I need to set HX to 8 snapshot mode. 
c)    Did you have this problem on both your PC+ 112 and 212 (If I remember correct you had both)? Ask because I only have the 112 to test on.
d)    The bullet 6 and 7 I guess are the onboard IR’s in the PC+.  
e)    So, I guess what you want me to listen for if the tweeter is turned on/off in the different configurations and if I hear a difference (snap 1/2/3 turns tweeter on/off I FRFR mode + 4/5 has tweeter turned off and run speaker emulation + 6/7 test switching IR patches on PC+ via midi/L6-Link).    

 

Anything else I should have in mind when performing the tests? Just so you get the outcome you want.

 

Don’t beat yourself up on this if it happens to be the reflash that solved the problem. That’s called experience after the cause of the problem is found… no one else solved it and you don’t even try to hide anything. That’s honorable… You may be harassed a little of cause, but that’s part of the game… :-) 

 

I think I can run the test during the week and let you know.
//Per
 

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Hi PerS - 

 

Thanks for your interest in this. You're very brave!

 

It's my impression from what others have said that this is mainly an issue with the PC212+, but happy to hear your results.

 

#6 is only there for comparison to #7, to be certain that there's no difference between calling the mode by MIDI or L6 Link.

 

When testing, do not use PC Edit, place your cab so that you can see the display.

 

Place the display in GLOBAL mode and scroll down to LF Trim. There's a timer, so you'll probably have to hit the GLOBAL button a couple of times during the test. It will stay on the LF Trim setting.

 

As you switch snapshots, hit a big old power chord and turn the LF Trim setting to MAX (+12db). If the tweeter is ON you'll hear a big difference.

 

It should be OFF in all modes except SS1 (Flat/FRFR), SS6 (UserIR MID) and SS7 (UserIR Lnk).

 

If when raising/lowering the LF Trim you hear a difference in the other modes, there's the problem.

 

In the preset I used a relatively high gain amp because this is most noticeable with high gain.

 

When I had the PC112+ I was blissfully unaware of the problem, either because it WASN'T a problem, or I just didn't keep the cab long enough to notice.

At this point I wish I'd kept the PC112+ along with buying the PC212+, as it would have made the perfect companion to the Catalyst 100 that I just got.

BTW the Catalyst sounds GREAT, and with the XLR out to the PC212+ in Flat/FRFR mode it sounds HUGE even at 70db (apartment level). If the Cat was capable of stereo when connected to two cabs (like the Katana) it would be perfect, but for the price, I'm not complaining! Elsewhere I've posted a set of presets for use with Helix. It's a great combination.

 

As for beating myself up over this, it remains to be seen if the "fix" remains consistent over time. One of the big problems we've had in documenting this is that the problem sometimes appears to be random. Random problems are THE WORST!

 

 

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Yes, random problem is a pain. One of the worst I have had (in my music life) was two years ago. More then one part interacted. Got BSOD on my Win 10 PC when turning it off and randomly at start up and random freeze. Only happened when my Helix was on. Run a crash analyzer software and it pointed at Helix… (reflashing Helix and reinstallation HX Edit made no difference). Long story short, it was a combo of a Win10 update (early 2020), beta drivers to my old Focusrite Scarlett soundcard and a loudness meter software (witch I really miss). ASIO-drivers was probably one cause and the Win10-update did not help…(main problem probably loudness meter catalyzed by the sound card drivers). 6 months of struggle and my Helix (hw and sw) had probably nothing to do with it, were just symptoms.

 

I will not use the PC Edit...

 

Well, I found my MIDI-cables. As the brave man I am I will give it a shot during the week and report back.

//Per

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On 3/12/2022 at 1:37 AM, rd2rk said:

Something else I noticed while testing was that not having the PC Edit app open seemed to make a difference.

I've always tested with it open in the past due to the difficulty of looking at the little LED screen on the Powercab's top rear panel and having to spin the HF Trim dial 100 times vs using the slider in the app. Apparently, I was shooting myself in the foot.

The PC Edit app DOES SUCK!

 

A question that hit me... When you did this, did you have the HX Edit and PC Edit open at the same time? Ask because a while back (about 6 months) I did a similar experience (not with Trim, changed some configurations) and got a feeling that PC+ did not know who was in charge, HX Edit via Helix LT USB to L6-Link to PC+ or PC Edit via USB to PC+. Actually, have not used PC Edit since then…   


Can be a coincidence but as we talking random behavior I bring it up on the table.
//Per
 

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On 3/15/2022 at 5:16 AM, PerS said:

 

A question that hit me... When you did this, did you have the HX Edit and PC Edit open at the same time? Ask because a while back (about 6 months) I did a similar experience (not with Trim, changed some configurations) and got a feeling that PC+ did not know who was in charge, HX Edit via Helix LT USB to L6-Link to PC+ or PC Edit via USB to PC+. Actually, have not used PC Edit since then…   


Can be a coincidence but as we talking random behavior I bring it up on the table.
//Per
 

 

Yes, as it's easier to configure the PC+ with PC Edit, it's easier to configure L6 Link with HX Edit.

Working directly from the hardware only seemed to make a difference with PC Edit.

The settings on Helix always matched the settings in HX Edit.

Amazing how they managed to get HX Edit so right, and PC Edit SO wrong!

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Hi rd2rk
Finally done the tests and tried to document it below. 
I did the following 

  • I only had my HX Edit open on my PC during test (HX edit and Helix LT both on 3.15) (PC Edit 2.0 and PC+ fw 2.00.1)
    • Interesting finding – Having both PC Edit and HX Edit open and having both MIDI and L6-Link connected made PC editors to freez (did itby mistake) … 
  • When you say LF Trim, I guess you mean HF Trim, just testing me right… :-)
  • In snapshot 4 it’s noticed 2xGREEN, I guess that’s because you have a PC+212 and I have a PC+112…
  • Tried the Snapshots from top to bottom, from bottom to top and randomly switched to different snapshots, just to check full control.
  • Snapshot 5 and 6 – Had problem to get those to work, had no sound from the start, from both of them. Really don’t know what made it start but changing User IR was one of them even if I had copied the green-IR to 33… This is one of the really stupid things, I don’t see which IR is in a position from HX Edit. I need to open the PC Edit, and we know what happens then…

Used my Gibson LP Studio with Bursbucker 2 + 3 (bridge position to focus on the top end) wireless direct to my L6 Helix LT.

 

Which resulted in this

  • Snapshot 1 – HF Trim had a distinct effect on top end tone. HF turned on and off when switching between Snap 1 and Snap 2-4.  
  • Snapshot 2 – HF Trim has no effect on top end tone.
  • Snapshot 3 – HF Trim has no effect on top end tone.
  • Snapshot 4 – HF Trim has no effect on top end tone.
  • Snapshot 5 – HF Trim has no effect on top end tone.
  • Snapshot 6 and 7 – HF Trim had a distinct effect on top end tone. The snap's controlled the switching between the two via MIDI and L6-Link. No sound difference (if I they used the same IR :-).

Please let me know if this was what you expected and if there is anything else you want me to test. 

 

Added comment - Ì only tested the HF Trim/tweeter in/out, did not test any sound quality questions. If that's of interest let me know and what to test.

//Per
 

Edited by PerS
Corrected a typo in last bullet and added a comment
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Hi PerS - 

 

Thanks for trying this and yes, I meant HF Trim.

You got the expected results. It seems that, as others have said, this is mainly a problem with the PC212+.

Over on TGP we managed to get someone at L6 to confirm that there actually IS a Powercab Team, and that our message has been received.

That was 4 weeks ago. Still waiting for a response from the L6 Powercab Team.

NOT holding my breath.

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