Helix Floor: activate/ desactivate EXP-assignments to the "Pedal Edit mode"

[AMountain]

Hello all

I use the Floor as pure pedal-board (in front of my amp). I have two external EXPs connected: Exp2 controls a Gain-block, Exp3 the ubitiquos vibe's rotation-parameter, and the automatically activated onboard EXP1 is assigned to drive the bassoctaver, as it serves too for to adjust the parameters when i go in "pedal edit mode (PEM)".

Sometimes in PEM, the values i want to edit jump and 'flutter' and it's hard then to set the value correctly and to save it before it jumps again (this seems to be a problem that others have too, as i could read now in my researches for to resolve my problem).

Tonight, while again using the PEM, i went aware that i can drive with all three EXPs the parameter i want to change ---- I thought, "With the volume i play with, surely the EXP-pedals vibrate and because they all three are automatically assigned to the parameter-change-function in PEM, and that they are all in special positions for their primary target (volume, rotation, etc.) - and not at zero or full -, it's not a surprise that the value of the parameter i want to work in PEM jumps and flutters."

Of course, it does not make sense then to use the external pedals [since those drive the parameter of the block they are assigned to and the Gain-block for example is always activated, so it affects simultaneously the volume what isn't really helpful when editing parameters in the PEM].

 

Problem: All three EXPs can drive simultaneously the PEM function. As it seems to me, their assignment to the PEM is done automatically by the Floor-unit and i did not find a way for to desactivate the assignment of EXP2 and EXP3 from the PEM. In the manual, i found no remarks on the assigment of the EXPs to the PEM. And in Global settings, i found no option. So, my question is:

 

Is my Floor broken or is it normal that all (two or three) EXPs are assigned to the PEM?

 

Can i at all activate/ desactivate EXP-assignments to the PEM and if yes, how do i do that?

 

In my case: How can i assign only one of the three EXPs to the PEM (preferably EXP1)?

 

Thank you in advance for helping to clear this situation.

 

 

 

 

[AMountain]

Forgot to mention the possibility that i make a stupid fault.

 

If i did none, and if i cannot chose one of the three EXPs for editing in PEM, then is it at least possible to deactivate fully that the EXPs can control the editing-function? Then one could do the editing purely with the foot-switches, but the value would very supposedly not more start to jump&flutter.

[rd2rk]

Using HX Edit, in the "Bypass/Controller Assign" pane, find your exp pedal assignments and set them as desired.

 

EDIT: as to the "flutter" thing, I've found, with multiple pedals and devices, that exp pedals are great for active use, but not so good for fine adjustments. Just the nature of the beast.

[AMountain]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:50 AM, rd2rk said:

Using HX Edit, in the "Bypass/Controller Assign" pane, find your exp pedal assignments and set them as desired.

 

EDIT: as to the "flutter" thing, I've found, with multiple pedals and devices, that exp pedals are great for active use, but not so good for fine adjustments. Just the nature of the beast.

Hello rd2rk

 

I do not find a "Bypass/Controller Assign" pane for the "pedal edit mode". Please indicate me how to do that.

[rd2rk]

[AMountain]

On 4/19/2022 at 11:57 AM, rd2rk said:

This is, as far as i understand, the common Bypass/Controler Assign - pane for blocks. I talk about the EXP-assignments of the "Pedal Edit Mode" (see manual). There is, beside the editing via Laptop or PC, with the pure unit without UI, for to use Digital Igloo's words, the normal preset editing (to activate by touching with the bare hands the assigned FS of an effect, and then turning the little knobs) and the Pedal Edit mode (editing purely with the feet, to activate by pressing FS6 for 2sec).

This PEM is not a block. Thus, as far as i understand, there is not the common "Bypass/Controler Assign"-pane in HX Edit. However the unit is assigning any EXP to the PEM (EXP1, EXP2, and if connected, too EXP3).

 

When one works only with the onboard-pedal (no external EXP connected), EXP1 and EXP2 are both automatically activated with the PEM, but because they are naturally divided, they do not interfere one with the other and the tweaking is exact, no fluttering, no jumping.

 

The problem starts in the moment an external pedal is connected, : Because any EXP is automatically assigned to the PEM (pedal edit mode), they run now parallely and interfere one with the other and that results in fluttering and real jumping (from 10% to 90% for example).

 

And if a second external EXP is connected (EXP3), it becomes even worse, because the unit assigns all three to the PEM and they interfere all three. 

 

I don't find a way to tell the Floor-unit to assign only one EXP to the PEM (or none, and tweaking the parameters purely with the footswitches). It must exist, because it is unlogic that all connected pedals are automatically active on one parameter. Or it is bug which would have to be corrected with a next update.

[rd2rk]

On 4/19/2022 at 11:42 AM, AMountain said:

When one works only with the onboard-pedal (no external EXP connected), EXP1 and EXP2 are both automatically activated with the PEM, but because they are naturally divided, they do not interfere one with the other and the tweaking is exact, no fluttering, no jumping.

 

The problem starts in the moment an external pedal is connected, : Because any EXP is automatically assigned to the PEM (pedal edit mode), they run now parallely and interfere one with the other and that results in fluttering and real jumping (from 10% to 90% for example).

 

And if a second external EXP is connected (EXP3), it becomes even worse, because the unit assigns all three to the PEM and they interfere all three. 

 

I only have one external exp pedal to test this with (Mission SP1-L6), but regardless of whether I connect it to Exp2 or Exp3, I'm not seeing the "fluttering" behavior that you describe. All 3 pedals (on-board 1/2 and external 2 or 3) all work and interact without problems.

 

What kind of external pedals are you using?

 

The only time I've had that inconsistent "fluttering" thing going on was when I first got the Mission. I'd connected it with an un-shielded "insert" cable. When I replaced that with better quality shielded cables the problem went away.

[AMountain]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:07 PM, rd2rk said:

 

I only have one external exp pedal to test this with (Mission SP1-L6), but regardless of whether I connect it to Exp2 or Exp3, I'm not seeing the "fluttering" behavior that you describe. All 3 pedals (on-board 1/2 and external 2 or 3) all work and interact without problems.

 

What kind of external pedals are you using?

 

The only time I've had that inconsistent "fluttering" thing going on was when I first got the Mission. I'd connected it with an un-shielded "insert" cable. When I replaced that with better quality shielded cables the problem went away.

Two M-Audio EXP (cable originally hardwired). 

Shielded cable? It's not on a cable transporting a musical signal. But perhaps your shielded cable gave the connection another capacitance. I read in other threads here in the forum that other people suspected the capacitance-measuring of the unit (in the EXP-entry) to be the cause of the fluttering in PEM-mode with external EXPs. But i think: It's not only fluttering, it's sometimes real jumping, from the left side of the value to the extreme right side, so really 80, 90% of the value-range. Very disagradable. Happens too then when one uses the PEM-FSs (value minus and value plus) for to adjust the mattering parameter-value in little steps: I tap 15 times for to go down from lets say 32ms to 13ms and whamm, at 17ms it jumps then suddenly to 1900ms on the right side. Very, very annoying, extremely annoying. PEM would be wonderful if that would not happen. 

I suspected the volume (supposedly 115db+) to be the culprit, causing all connected EXPs to vibrate and when they all are allowed the simultaneous access to the setting of one parameter-value, i could more easily imagine that this influences the unit to measure uneven and changing values. Too perhaps there is an "endless loop-effect" (akin to the CC-loops one can produce).

The more: It is too not every time that the fluttering and jumping happens, sometimes it functions well. Makes it more difficult to diagnose the culprit.



Whatever may be the cause for the fluttering&jumping, i cannot see the sense to have simultaneously 4 tweaking tools on one parameter. In PEM, obviously i stand in front of my Floor (not where the external EXPs are). And my Floor, when i have extrn.EXPs connected, has an onboard-EXP that is then switched to EXP1. Why please should more pedals be allowed the access??? Waiting that somebody from L6 explains the meaning of that "program-design"-question plus the possibilities behind. 


However, for to return to the topic of this thread, the two questions there:

Your answer seems to express 2 things:

- On the one hand it is not a bug [that the unit assigns automatically all connected EXPs to the PEM], but the program is whyever consciously designed that way.
and
- On the other hand, there is no option (nor in Global settings nor in HX-Edit) to influence these multiple EXP-assignments to the 'Pedal Edit mode' (and to assign only one EXP to it).

Is that correct?

[rd2rk]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:13 PM, AMountain said:

Is that correct?

 

Yes.