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Size of Studio monitors changes my tone


willyjacksonjs22
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I went from 5s back to 8s , same brand jbls, and on the 8s I have to high cut the ir all the way to 4.0 or 3.5. Any one know why are the 8s having this problem? I’m not playing at really high volumes. I thought cutting the highs or mids was just for band practice or stage volumes? Btw I’m using helix native and not a problem with other amp sims.

 

also I have the input sensitive on both pair of speakers set to +4dBu. Does that affect tone? They originally came set to -10dBv. 

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It sounds to me like your 8's are better at reproducing high end than your 5's were. Being the same model, that would be odd. What model of JBL are you talking about? 

 

On 5/12/2022 at 11:14 AM, willyjacksonjs22 said:

I have the input sensitive on both pair of speakers set to +4dBu. Does that affect tone? They originally came set to -10dBv. 


It shouldn't affect tone, it will affect volume. IIRC, LINE Out on the Helix is +4db.. so that would be the best setting to use. +4 is known as "pro line level" while -10 is known as "consumer line level". They play nicely with each other... but it's always best to match when possible. 

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Well increasing the sensitivity will certainly affect higher frequencies more than it will mids and lows simply because your ears are more sensitive to that range.  What concerns me more is the aggressive high cuts you've been using.  I rarely have high cuts on any preset below 8khz and generally they're more in the 9 to 10 khz range.  This can be related to a couple of different things.  Either your listening position relative to the speakers (both studio monitors and live speakers) or the mic and mic positions you're specifying on your cabinet model setups.

In terms of listening positions, studio monitors are typically more sensitive to this than are PA speakers, especially if they have rear facing bass reflex ports.  I use 7 inch speakers (Yamaha HS7) and have them about a foot away from walls and positioned so that I'm in the center of an equilateral triangle between them at roughly chest to ear height.  PA speakers aren't as particular about physical positions relative to walls, but they can be dramatically affected depending on how close you're standing to them.  In my rehearsal space I have my Yamaha DXR12 at about chest height and I stand about 6 to 7 feet away to allow proper blending between the main speaker and high end driver.

In terms of cab/IR models I tend to use a combination of MD421 dynamic and R121 ribbon mics and I keep the 421 positioned farther away from the speaker then I do the 121.  Some folks get good results with a R121 positioned around 2" in their  cabinet models.

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When you change the sound pressure, without compensate the volume delta, your ears will perceive the tone differently. Biggr the delta, the wider the difference. It's the Fletcher Munson curve.

 

At low listening volumes – mid range frequencies sound more prominent, while the low and high frequency ranges seem to fall into the background.

At high listening volumes – the lows and highs sound more prominent, while the mid range seems comparatively softer.

 

Yet in reality, the overall tonal balance of the sound remains the same, no matter what the listening volume.

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On 5/12/2022 at 9:22 AM, codamedia said:

It sounds to me like your 8's are better at reproducing high end than your 5's were. Being the same model, that would be odd. What model of JBL are you talking about? 

 


It shouldn't affect tone, it will affect volume. IIRC, LINE Out on the Helix is +4db.. so that would be the best setting to use. +4 is known as "pro line level" while -10 is known as "consumer line level". They play nicely with each other... but it's always best to match when possible. 

Hi, is the Jbl lsr305p and lsr308. The 305p are the new gen.

 

im using a Scarlett interface not the hardware 

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On 5/12/2022 at 9:43 AM, PierM said:

When you change the sound pressure, without compensate the volume delta, your ears will perceive the tone differently. Biggr the delta, the wider the difference. It's the Fletcher Munson curve.

 

At low listening volumes – mid range frequencies sound more prominent, while the low and high frequency ranges seem to fall into the background.

At high listening volumes – the lows and highs sound more prominent, while the mid range seems comparatively softer.

 

Yet in reality, the overall tonal balance of the sound remains the same, no matter what the listening volume.

But it’s a drastically change with helix native and not with other amp sims?

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On 5/12/2022 at 7:38 PM, willyjacksonjs22 said:

But it’s a drastically change with helix native and not with other amp sims?

 

Well, it depends on the frequency spectrum you are generating with any of those sims (**), and the dB at the mix output that it's hitting the speakers. There is nothing, native side (as any other VST), that it's changing when you change speakers.

 

(**) that's A LOT of variables between the two different VST code and presets

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On 5/12/2022 at 1:38 PM, willyjacksonjs22 said:

But it’s a drastically change with helix native and not with other amp sims?

Typically it's not the amp sims as much as it's the configuration parameters within the sims that will tend to make the difference.  Amp sims all basically do the same thing but there's an absolute WORLD of different parameters and settings you can use.

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Is the position of the speakers, especially the tweeter, the same for the different speakers relative to your ears? If you’re close to the speakers, even a few inches can make a big difference in the tone, especially the high end.  Also, probably goes without saying, but if the speakers have eq or filters built in, make sure they’re both flat.

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On 5/12/2022 at 12:15 PM, willyjacksonjs22 said:

Hi, is the Jbl lsr305p and lsr308. The 305p are the new gen.

 

Since I am somebody that never assumes anything.... I need to ask a really obvious question. 

Is the HF Trim set the same on both sets of monitors? 

 

I think it should also be noted that although they both use 1" dome tweeters, there is more power driving the tweeter on the 8" model. That doesn't always equate to "louder", but it will equate to "more headroom/cleaner" therefore there will always be a perceived increase in high end on the 8" model.

 

If the 8's are not the "p" (new generation) then something else to consider is that you are not truly comparing the same series... the 305's will have improvements that the 308's don't have. Maybe, just maybe the high end is part of those changes? (I do not know the answer to this, I am posing the question)

 

On 5/12/2022 at 4:06 PM, loonsailor said:

Is the position of the speakers, especially the tweeter, the same for the different speakers relative to your ears?

 

^^^ this ^^^ is also very critical.

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On 5/12/2022 at 6:53 PM, codamedia said:

 

Since I am somebody that never assumes anything.... I need to ask a really obvious question. 

Is the HF Trim set the same on both sets of monitors? 

 

I think it should also be noted that although they both use 1" dome tweeters, there is more power driving the tweeter on the 8" model. That doesn't always equate to "louder", but it will equate to "more headroom/cleaner" therefore there will always be a perceived increase in high end on the 8" model.

 

If the 8's are not the "p" (new generation) then something else to consider is that you are not truly comparing the same series... the 305's will have improvements that the 308's don't have. Maybe, just maybe the high end is part of those changes? (I do not know the answer to this, I am posing the question)

 

 

^^^ this ^^^ is also very critical.

Yes set the same. I have them both set up and pointing directly on my ears.

 

I thought the 5s will have a better high end due to the 8s producing more low end? I think the 5s sound better at low volumes, is that because the driver smaller?

 

I’ll double check what changes were made in the new gen.

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On 5/13/2022 at 5:14 PM, soundog said:

I want a Fletcher Munson function on my mix board's Master fader.

 

I had one of those once. Could never get the thing to sound the same twice!  ;-)

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FRFR cabs are not really true FRFR.  They're all a little different.  That's why there are comparison articles and videos about choosing the right FRFR.  It comes as no surprise to me that a different cab will sound different with the same patch.

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