[HX Effect] Am I hearing things or...

[MayPRS]

I'm using my HX Effects live from some time now... I use it in 4CM and I have the "feeling" that my external OD pedal sounds "thinner" than connecting it in 3 CM. I experience the same thing on my previous unit (the G-System) but on this one was the difference was HUGE. On the HX Effects sometimes I experience the same issue... I compare 4CM with 3CM (HX Effect only on amp FX Loop and OD connected directly to the amp's input) and, to me, it sounds warmer and with longer sustain... but not always and more present on the low strings (low E especially)... the OD I use is kind of a Treble Booster + Vox AC30 sound emulator (V-Stack BHM). 

 

I'm not sure I'm hearing things or I'm indeed losing "tone" using this OD in 4CM. This OD is soooo tricky... as a real TB I also cannot use wireless system... I can swear I'm losing warmth and sustain... the difference is not HUGE but it really sounds a bit more trebly...

 

The thing with 4CM is that I use the excellent HX Noise Gate to remove the noise from the V-Stack... if I connect directly I probably would need to get my ISP on the pedalboard no?

 

Anyone experience this issue on 4CM? Many thanks in advance.

[codamedia]

On 5/31/2022 at 7:01 AM, MayPRS said:

This OD is soooo tricky... as a real TB I also cannot use wireless system... I can swear I'm losing warmth and sustain... the difference is not HUGE but it really sounds a bit more trebly...

 

The first thing to understand is that the warmth you are describing here is the sound of a cable degrading your tone :) 

It might be pleasant, it might be what you prefer, just understand it for what it is. 

 

As for the 4cm vs 3cm difference.... IME this could be a gain staging issue, or it could simply be that your OD prefers a particular placement.... that's not uncommon. I once returned a particular "well liked OD" as quickly as I bought it because of it's finicky placement requirements on my board. It only worked well in one location, and sounded like it had a wet blanket on it in every other location. 

[MayPRS]

On 5/31/2022 at 2:38 PM, codamedia said:

 

The first thing to understand is that the warmth you are describing here is the sound of a cable degrading your tone :) 

It might be pleasant, it might be what you prefer, just understand it for what it is. 

 

As for the 4cm vs 3cm difference.... IME this could be a gain staging issue, or it could simply be that your OD prefers a particular placement.... that's not uncommon. I once returned a particular "well liked OD" as quickly as I bought it because of it's finicky placement requirements on my board. It only worked well in one location, and sounded like it had a wet blanket on it in every other location. 

 

Thanks! The OD sounds indeed more "open" but I actually preferred the "old" tone.. or it can be my mind playing tricks. I have to really A/B at gig volume which its not easy at home. 

 

On the G-System it was a WORLD difference - I almost returned the G-System because I started by connecting it in 4CM and the V-Stack on G-System input sounded really "dead" - once I tried the 3CM - I stick with it for 12 years! :)

 

On the HX I don't hear a HUGE difference but I can swear its there... I will try and try to see if I can get to definitive conclusion. The thing with TB is they are designed to work well between Guitar -> TB -> Amp... as I put it on HX path I'm converting some analog signal into digital right? Kudos to Line6 as I don't hear a world's difference, but maybe that's what's happening?

[codamedia]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:26 AM, MayPRS said:

On the HX I don't hear a HUGE difference but I can swear its there...

 

Yes - it probably is. But if it's really minor you should be able to compensate any perceived differences. 

 

On 5/31/2022 at 10:26 AM, MayPRS said:

I put it on HX path I'm converting some analog signal into digital right?

 

Yes - the HX is digital so every round trip to/from the HX goes through a single AD/DA conversion.

For the record, any digital pedal works this way... and there are "countless" makes/models out there, some even disguising as regular stomp boxes.

 

On 5/31/2022 at 10:26 AM, MayPRS said:

The thing with TB is they are designed to work well between Guitar -> TB -> Amp

 

Yes, no, and not really. TB is only TB until it is turned on. TB makes no difference to the tone of the pedal, it makes a difference when the pedal is OFF - and even that is a subjective preference.

 

FWIW... Since I can't stand surprises, I always ran a buffered pedal at the front of my chain. It retained the highs for me to shape later as I pleased & on my terms. For example... I don't want a cable to shape my high end, I'll do it with an EQ - but that's just my preference.

 

There is no right or wrong, just a few standard approaches. Do whatever you have to in order to get the best tone you can. 

[z3albw1rr]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:01 AM, MayPRS said:

I'm using my HX Effects live from some time now... I use it in 4CM and I have the "feeling" that my external OD pedal sounds "thinner" than connecting it in 3 CM.

 

Press Mode and Tap at the same time to enter True Bypass mode on the HX Effects. You'll see a little "notification" flash from scribble strip to scribble strip - it kind of "scrolls around" the strips when in this mode.

 

You should be able to toggle between this TB and non-TB mode to see how much alteration the FX is doing here.

 

You could try it "straight through" without 3CM or 4CM too.

 

This would help you determine if it's truly the additional cable, or the nature of the HX FX itself.

 

FWIW, I notice the change without 3/4CM so it's definitely there - and it's the Buffer for me that's doing it.

 

I basically compensate by having a Drive or Comp model as my bypassed tone since you can't truly bypass the Blocks or Path without using the True Bypass mode, which is kind of pain to get to and not really all that useful (other than for testing the difference in sound!) This way I can kind of regain some of what the buffer messes up.

 

 

[MayPRS]

So I finally tried and perform an entire gig in 3CM - I was NOT hearing things... at gig volumes WHAT A SOUND! Now I have "the" tone I want, indeed the V-Stack works best when connected directly to amp input.

 

So, with this pedal, which in ON all the time, I'm better off with 3CM - oh and the HX effects (delays, harmonies, etc) sounded awesome.

 

Thanks for all the input and help!