Creative Secondary Wah options?

[themetallikid]

Sorry for the thread spam....slow work day I guess.

 

I seem to remember back in the Boss GT3 days that the wahs in that unit were passable at best, but you could assign a Parametric EQ to the expression pedal and 'create' a wah that was much more vocal and better than the stock wahs.   

 

I dont remember specifically how it was done, but its got me curious to try.  

 

Just wondering if anyone has tried to create different wah approaches.  I know some wahs have a fuzz/OD/Boost function built into them....anyone replicated that?  Thinking of the Slash Wah in particular, or ways to mimic the Crybaby Rack Wah setting.  I know thats just a 5 band (?) para EQ in the rack brain, but not sure where it would fall in relation to the wah block in the Helix.  

 

Could you use a para EQ with static settings to help mimic a better/stronger Q response in the wah at all?  

[theElevators]

Yes that’s a cool idea. You can add a block and in HX Edit: right click on any parameter and assign it to an expression pedal. So you can add a parametric EQ and set various things to increase and decrease as you move the expression pedal.  So you have your own customized EQ that is adjustable. 

[themetallikid]

Yeah, I've done that, just playing around, not seriously dialing anything in.  

 

I know for awhile I used the Valve Driver OD block in front of the Wah.  Just enough gain to boost the signal and add some dirt, but didn't know if anyone else strayed off the path further than me?  Or if someone knew how best to implement those boost/drive circuits.   

 

I'd love to see a more comprehensive wah section with switches and such like the signature wahs have.  Even a signature wah-like name:

 

Symbol Wah (Slash)

Money Wah (Dimebag)

Metalli-wah (Hammet Rack Cry Baby)

Alice/Chain Wah - Alice In Chains (higher/darker queued via a switch)

Skydive Wah - Parachute Wah (I think this is what Kirk/Slash used in the 90's on the Use Your Illusion/Black Album tours)

etc...

 

 

I know they are all variations, and the sweep ranges are different, but the additional boosts/drive options would be great.

 

 

*This by no means I'm unhappy with my current wah settings, but would love to see a more in depth section.  

[RitchieM]

Honestly, I have wanted to recreate that Kirk Black Album live tour sound for years, and got better than the stock ones on a Vox Chrome with a boost when engaged and an EQ linked, but still never that proper thick and throaty sound he got. Following with anticipation!! 

[themetallikid]

On 6/4/2022 at 4:51 AM, RitchieM said:

Honestly, I have wanted to recreate that Kirk Black Album live tour sound for years, and got better than the stock ones on a Vox Chrome with a boost when engaged and an EQ linked, but still never that proper thick and throaty sound he got. Following with anticipation!! 

I've asked about that wah on several forums over the years and if I remember right, I  believe Slash on the UYI tour and Kirk on the Load/Reload tours (maybe the black album??)  were using a Chicago Iron Parachute Wah.  I think that's what it was called.  

[RitchieM]

My understanding for Kirk was it was a modded Crybaby Rack Wah and units were just linked controllers. Either way, still never managed to find the tone. I do have a KH Crybaby, and even with my ESP KH2 I can’t nail it, so it’s definitely also in the amp. 

[themetallikid]

On 6/4/2022 at 3:40 PM, RitchieM said:

My understanding for Kirk was it was a modded Crybaby Rack Wah and units were just linked controllers. Either way, still never managed to find the tone. I do have a KH Crybaby, and even with my ESP KH2 I can’t nail it, so it’s definitely also in the amp. 

He did use the Crybaby Rack wah...and as far as I read, I dont think it was modded.  I've seen settings he used and I had one for awhile cause I thought Slash did the same thing as he had wah's all over the stage...but I read he didnt use one of those it was something else.  I'll have to do some digging and see what I can find.  I'm sure there are specs of that Parachute wah somewhere that would give you at least the minimum/maximum of the frequency ranges.  It'd be nice to control the Q, but thats where my suggestion of using the Para EQ could come into play, unless we get some additional options in the Wah Block area.  

[craiganderton]

I have two favorite "alternate wah" approaches:

 

• Parallel a parametric EQ with an out-of-phase path. Then, everything cancels except for the peak created by the parametric, which is the type of curve most wahs have. You can vary the parametric's Q and frequency range to emulate the response of just about any wah pedal, then add distortion to taste. 
• Sweep three hi-Q bandpass filters simultaneously. The filters are in parallel with an out-of-phase path, for the same reasons given above. They're offset so that if one is at (for example) 500 Hz, the others are at 1.5 kHz and 3 kHz. They maintain the same frequency relationship to each other as you move the pedal. (This is the basis for the pseudo-talk box preset in The Big Book of Helix Tips and Tricks - if you have the eBook, it's on page 198, and the "Talk Box.hlx" preset is in the Free Files folder.)

[datacommando]

On 6/3/2022 at 9:37 PM, themetallikid said:

I know they are all variations, and the sweep ranges are different, but the additional boosts/drive options would be great.

The science behind a wah pedal is quite simple, as pointed out by “craiganderton” in his post above. Buy his “Big Book of Tricks” for lots of other interesting stuff.

 

Meanwhile - here’s a video example of a guy creating a wah inside a DAW - same technique with a parametric EQ being swept.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[themetallikid]

On 6/5/2022 at 10:33 AM, craiganderton said:

I have two favorite "alternate wah" approaches:

 

• Parallel a parametric EQ with an out-of-phase path. Then, everything cancels except for the peak created by the parametric, which is the type of curve most wahs have. You can vary the parametric's Q and frequency range to emulate the response of just about any wah pedal, then add distortion to taste. 
• Sweep three hi-Q bandpass filters simultaneously. The filters are in parallel with an out-of-phase path, for the same reasons given above. They're offset so that if one is at (for example) 500 Hz, the others are at 1.5 kHz and 3 kHz. They maintain the same frequency relationship to each other as you move the pedal. (This is the basis for the pseudo-talk box preset in The Big Book of Helix Tips and Tricks - if you have the eBook, it's on page 198, and the "Talk Box.hlx" preset is in the Free Files folder.)

 

On 6/5/2022 at 12:39 PM, datacommando said:

The science behind a wah pedal is quite simple, as pointed out by “craiganderton” in his post above. Buy his “Big Book of Tricks” for lots of other interesting stuff.

 

Meanwhile - here’s a video example of a guy creating a wah inside a DAW - same technique with a parametric EQ being swept.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

I have the resource you mentioned, and I'll have to look into these options and play around a bit.  

 

Listened to some clips of that EMB Audio Wah and I think that is the sound I'm gonna aim for.

[themetallikid]

While this definately is not 'creative', going through my presets and updating the blocks for the show this Friday...I started trying different wahs.   Of course this was in a preset that my path 1 is pretty maxed out DSP wise, so after I settled on a wah choice, I had limited OD options.  One of those was the Compusive drive.

 

I decided on the blocks below OD > Wah for my presets.  I've never tried the conductor wah before.  I guess its a model of the Maestro Boomerang from what I could find.  Dont know much about that, but it seems to have a more aggressive 'breaking' point between the heel/toe areas.  The drive just helps that a touch.  In my presets, then, instead of boosting the amp (Wah > OD > Amp) like a traditional....I swapped the wah/od order and just adding a bit more OD gain to the signal.   

 

Sounds great in my headphones, we will see at practice tomorrow.  

STP Wah 2.fav STP Wah Drive 2.fav