Stereo first time at gig...how do I instruct the FOH guy to set me up

[themetallikid]

I've had great experiences so far with running mono....but wanted to explore running stereo.  I get the idea that most the crowd could miss something if they aren't in the right spot.  But most the venues I play are small enough that the 'happy zone' should cover most of the crowd, lol.   

 

However, I'm having difficulty in my head preparing for what I will hear differently.  Looking for some guidance for things I can instruct FOH and expect in my own monitor feed.  I run a split amp preset on Path 1 being sent to 2A & 2B, that remains split until post IR where I add my stereo delay (leads mostly) and a stereo Retro Reel.  The split on Path 1 is done with a stereo chorus feeding the A/B Split (set to 50/50).

 

First, my monitor - I run into a powered 15" wedge.  It has two inputs that I can run my 1/4" outs to, which will help me avoid the sum to mono and any weirdness from that (correct?), however being one speaker..I know I will not get the stereo seperation needed, I just dont want any weird stereo>mono stuff happening by sending one signal.  Anything I can be corrected on here?  

 

FOH - I'll be sending 2 XLR's.  Now the merge block is before the delay/retro reel blocks (those are both stereo blocks) then to a single output.  That output is panned in the middle.  So when I send the L/R XLR's, are they getting a 100% panned difference?  If that is the case, should the sound guy run both L/R board channels in the middle or pan them slightly 30%/50%/100%?  I know its whatever makes it sound good, but I dont know how well he is versed with this and want to recommend the best starting point as I'm new at this too.  

 

FOH - Question 2 - should I be running to 2 outputs and panning them myself?  I wont have enough DSP to add my delay/Retro to both output lines then, but if I did that I could  just use mono versions then? as the outputs are panned already right?   

 

I have more questions by my mind is tapping out until I hear answers from this.  

[CraigGT]

I'd run a single jack to your monitor from the Helix Left/Mono o/p and let that do the summing for you.

When I've got my sound guy pants on I usually pan stereo feeds (overheads/keyboards) about 30-40% left and right, anymore and much of the audience will miss something.

 

I've also had the experience of being in the middle of a crown and a hard panned Leslie was nauseating.

 

Craig

[theElevators]

Here's how our sound guy does the panning: basically everything is in the center in terms of the stereo picture.  Different voices are slightly panned left/right to have them better separate themselves, nothing hard-panned.  We have a trombone and a trumpet player, they are very very slightly panned left/right.  The stereo sound for guitar is more of a special effect, and should be used sparingly to avoid favoring one side of the auditorium. 

 

In terms of what I run in stereo on the Helix... some of the songs have subtle ping-pong delay.  The main signal goes in the center, and then is dressed up with subtle left/right bouncing.  So if somebody is on the right side, they still have an adequate sound.  I achieve that by adding my delay in parallel: the middle always comes through on both channels equally.  When I stop playing, you hear left/right echos. 

 

I have a few song sections where I have exaggerated delay, but still run the delay in parallel.  One song has the chorus where I play a chord, it comes across in the center, then repeats on the left, then on the right.  So again, nobody in the audience is deprived of the notes I'm playing.  I also have one freakout ending of a song, where I use a chopper effect with a panner: but it's for special effects. 

 

In terms of the personal monitor mix, I use the 1/4" out to my power amp + speaker.  But there's a pesky bug that Line 6 refuses to acknowlege.  2 of my Helixes develop it after doing back up / restore: the Left/Mono does not sum both sides, it's only the left side.  Workaround: plug in the 1/4" into the Right side, then the Left / Mono side and it works correctly.  I need to do this after I power on the Helix EVERY time. 

[themetallikid]

On 6/20/2022 at 11:11 AM, theElevators said:

Here's how our sound guy does the panning: basically everything is in the center in terms of the stereo picture.  Different voices are slightly panned left/right to have them better separate themselves, nothing hard-panned.  We have a trombone and a trumpet player, they are very very slightly panned left/right.  The stereo sound for guitar is more of a special effect, and should be used sparingly to avoid favoring one side of the auditorium. 

 

In terms of what I run in stereo on the Helix... some of the songs have subtle ping-pong delay.  The main signal goes in the center, and then is dressed up with subtle left/right bouncing.  So if somebody is on the right side, they still have an adequate sound.  I achieve that by adding my delay in parallel: the middle always comes through on both channels equally.  When I stop playing, you hear left/right echos. 

 

I have a few song sections where I have exaggerated delay, but still run the delay in parallel.  One song has the chorus where I play a chord, it comes across in the center, then repeats on the left, then on the right.  So again, nobody in the audience is deprived of the notes I'm playing.  I also have one freakout ending of a song, where I use a chopper effect with a panner: but it's for special effects. 

 

In terms of the personal monitor mix, I use the 1/4" out to my power amp + speaker.  But there's a pesky bug that Line 6 refuses to acknowlege.  2 of my Helixes develop it after doing back up / restore: the Left/Mono does not sum both sides, it's only the left side.  Workaround: plug in the 1/4" into the Right side, then the Left / Mono side and it works correctly.  I need to do this after I power on the Helix EVERY time. 

I remember reading about that bug you posted about, noted if I go that route.  

 

Follow ups:

 

Monitor - Would there be any real difference between doing the Mono out route vs just running the L and R outs to my monitor?  It's minimal work to do so...I guess I'm more worried about any weird phasing on the snapshots/presets that utilize that chorus up front pre-amp and when its summed being weird on my end.

 

FOH - I really dont use much for actual stereo seperation like your talking.  my delays are only stereo for the sake of keeping the output signal stereo.  About the only effect that is stereo I could see would be the chorus pre-amp.   I have the Essex 30 on my 'left/top' side and the Revv Red on the 'right/bottom'.   The A/B split is 50/50 after the chorus and the output is center panned.   If he runs Left/Right channels panned 50% L/R, then the left side would be getting all of that sides amp sound and only a smaller mix of the other side right?  I would think that would be not as pleasant as its a less gainier sound.   I would think keeping the board center panned would give the best amp sound/mix....   would the chorus when active still give you that thicker sound like he has?   

 

 

I apologize for my newness questions...I get a lot of the individual elements, but as they add up and then reach the board, I get confused on the end result. 

 

 

 

[theElevators]

On 6/20/2022 at 12:51 PM, themetallikid said:

I remember reading about that bug you posted about, noted if I go that route.  

 

Follow ups:

 

Monitor - Would there be any real difference between doing the Mono out route vs just running the L and R outs to my monitor?  It's minimal work to do so...I guess I'm more worried about any weird phasing on the snapshots/presets that utilize that chorus up front pre-amp and when its summed being weird on my end.

 

FOH - I really dont use much for actual stereo seperation like your talking.  my delays are only stereo for the sake of keeping the output signal stereo.  About the only effect that is stereo I could see would be the chorus pre-amp.   I have the Essex 30 on my 'left/top' side and the Revv Red on the 'right/bottom'.   The A/B split is 50/50 after the chorus and the output is center panned.   If he runs Left/Right channels panned 50% L/R, then the left side would be getting all of that sides amp sound and only a smaller mix of the other side right?  I would think that would be not as pleasant as its a less gainier sound.   I would think keeping the board center panned would give the best amp sound/mix....   would the chorus when active still give you that thicker sound like he has?   

 

 

I apologize for my newness questions...I get a lot of the individual elements, but as they add up and then reach the board, I get confused on the end result. 

 

 

 

I think you should be fine with just running Left/Mono to your monitor.  I don't envision any issues. 

 

As for how you pan your mix, best thing you can do is simply check the left channel and the right channel in isolation at home.  Plug in the 1/4 into the left and the right, but only connect one at a time to your monitor/amp, etc.  If they both sound fine by themselves, e.g. you don't have the main signal on the left, and silence on the right, then you're good to go.  With the 50% L/R, you still risk not having the main unaltered signal not come through the center.  So just check it at home, and rock on. 

[PaulTBaker]

Didn't you say you sum up both 2a and 2b with an IR at the end?  if so, then your question about the different amps being on either side... wouldn't they be summed and the split stereo.  (bad writing, sorry!).... What I'm trying to say it that if you bring 2a and 2b back together, then both amps will come out of the left and right of your stereo.

 

 

[themetallikid]

On 6/20/2022 at 1:04 PM, PaulTBaker said:

Didn't you say you sum up both 2a and 2b with an IR at the end?  if so, then your question about the different amps being on either side... wouldn't they be summed and the split stereo.  (bad writing, sorry!).... What I'm trying to say it that if you bring 2a and 2b back together, then both amps will come out of the left and right of your stereo.

 

 

Incorrect, my path 1 splits in to A (Essex 30) and B (Revv Red).  Those leave as Path 1a and 1b going to 2a and 2b respectively.  On path 2, they maintain their seperate lines with seperate IR's.  I have the dynamic room reverb on the Revv Red path (2B) which then both path's merge back before going into my Delay/Retro blocks and then the output block.  

 

On 6/20/2022 at 12:55 PM, theElevators said:

I think you should be fine with just running Left/Mono to your monitor.  I don't envision any issues. 

 

As for how you pan your mix, best thing you can do is simply check the left channel and the right channel in isolation at home.  Plug in the 1/4 into the left and the right, but only connect one at a time to your monitor/amp, etc.  If they both sound fine by themselves, e.g. you don't have the main signal on the left, and silence on the right, then you're good to go.  With the 50% L/R, you still risk not having the main unaltered signal not come through the center.  So just check it at home, and rock on. 

 This makes sense.  I have limited time being able to hook a live wedge at home, darn apartment living, but could do this sometime this week.  Makes sense.  Appreciate the info.