Tube Power Amp

[dacop13]

Question to those using the Helix with a Tube Power Amp, which one do you use?

I have the Mooer Tube Engine at 20w but I just want a bit more power for larger clubs.

[rd2rk]

I no longer use a tube power amp (switched to Catalyst100), but when I did it was a 6v6.

Why did I name a tube TYPE rather than a BRAND?

Because it's the tube TYPE (and speaker/cab of course) that determines the flavor of the amp, especially at higher volume levels.

 

If you primarily use Fender/Vox preamps, you should think about 6v6/EL84.

If you primarily use Marshall/Mesa preamps then EL34/6L6 might be a better choice.

If you use full amp models of every type, well, that's what Class D is about!

 

Those are just general rules of course. Twins are 6L6 and "boutique" type amps might use anything, but I'd say to base your choice on use case rather than brand.

[MGW-Alberta]

I run it through my Boogie Mark V-35 using 4CM.

[dacop13]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:58 PM, rd2rk said:

I no longer use a tube power amp (switched to Catalyst100), but when I did it was a 6v6.

Why did I name a tube TYPE rather than a BRAND?

Because it's the tube TYPE (and speaker/cab of course) that determines the flavor of the amp, especially at higher volume levels.

 

If you primarily use Fender/Vox preamps, you should think about 6v6/EL84.

If you primarily use Marshall/Mesa preamps then EL34/6L6 might be a better choice.

If you use full amp models of every type, well, that's what Class D is about!

 

Those are just general rules of course. Twins are 6L6 and "boutique" type amps might use anything, but I'd say to base your choice on use case rather than brand.

 

Funny you also used 6v6 tubes, that's what the Mooer tube engine has and I love the tone. I use full amp models only, I find the Mooer very neutral and I never liked any of the preamps.

 

So you are not using the Helix anymore and switched to the Catalyst100 combo? How does that amp compare to the Helix amp models?
 

[dacop13]

On 6/29/2022 at 8:29 PM, MGW-Alberta said:

I run it through my Boogie Mark V-35 using 4CM.

Noted on using a real amp. I have used my ENGL Fireball 25w and Marshall DSL 50w in 4CM and it sounds great. But I rather not bring a full amp head to a gig, although the ENGL is a smaller sized head. Do you use the Helix amp models with the Mk5 head or are you just using the Helix for effects with the Mk5? 

[rd2rk]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:50 AM, dacop13 said:

So you are not using the Helix anymore and switched to the Catalyst100 combo? How does that amp compare to the Helix amp models?

 

I use Helix AND the Catalyst100. Helix provides <>70 more amps, tons of concurrent FX and full MIDI control.

Best of both worlds!

[boynigel]

I go straight into the effects return of my Bad Cat amps.  i get the best of both worlds- modeling flexibility coupled with a (tube) "amp in a room" sound you just can't get going the FRFR route (well, unless you wanna get into filter eq's to simulate that, but still not the same IMO).  The nice thing about the Bad Cat is that it has a Cut knob that it post-preamp, which acts well as a master/global eq on the fly.

 

It you're asking because you're considering a dedicated power amp > cab setup, but you already have an amp head, don't rule out simply using your existing head as the power amp (if it has an fx loop/power amp in connection that is).  could save some serious cash in doing so.

[dacop13]

On 6/30/2022 at 11:46 AM, boynigel said:

I go straight into the effects return of my Bad Cat amps.  i get the best of both worlds- modeling flexibility coupled with a (tube) "amp in a room" sound you just can't get going the FRFR route (well, unless you wanna get into filter eq's to simulate that, but still not the same IMO).  The nice thing about the Bad Cat is that it has a Cut knob that it post-preamp, which acts well as a master/global eq on the fly.

 

It you're asking because you're considering a dedicated power amp > cab setup, but you already have an amp head, don't rule out simply using your existing head as the power amp (if it has an fx loop/power amp in connection that is).  could save some serious cash in doing so.

 
Yup, I have used both my ENGL and Marshall tube amps, sounds great into the loop return or 4CM. I also use a stand alone Moorer Tube Engine 20w 6v6 power amp and that sounds great too, just wish it had a bit more power. I too am not into the FRFR route, especially when compared to the tone you get with tube power, its not even close. 

[boynigel]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:58 PM, rd2rk said:

 

If you primarily use Fender/Vox preamps, you should think about 6v6/EL84.

 

Agreed.  My Derailed Ingrid into my 15W EL84 Bad Cats sound stunning.  So much so that after finally getting the opportunity to audition a Dr. Z Z-Wreck, an amp I'd been lusting after for months, my g.a.s. for one was immediately squashed. 

[boynigel]

One more point that may be something to think about for those considering going the route of Helix > power amp, or fx loop Return of amp > speaker cab-

 

One would think that using the Helix routed in to the effects return of an amp, that you would bypass the power section of the modeled amp and only send the preamp modeling (obviously the speaker modeling is disabled), but in my experience i got the best result using the modeled amp's preamp AND power amp section. 

 

I've heard some say that it depends on the model, so experiment.  It could be my amp, it could be the models I'm using, or a combination of the two.  FWIW i primarily use the vox and marshall voiced models like, Ingrid, Divided by 13, Vox, Placater , etc. into my low wattage (15) Bad Cats that run on EL84's.

[boynigel]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:58 PM, rd2rk said:

I no longer use a tube power amp (switched to Catalyst100), but when I did it was a 6v6.

Why did I name a tube TYPE rather than a BRAND?

Because it's the tube TYPE (and speaker/cab of course) that determines the flavor of the amp, especially at higher volume levels.

 

If you primarily use Fender/Vox preamps, you should think about 6v6/EL84.

If you primarily use Marshall/Mesa preamps then EL34/6L6 might be a better choice.

If you use full amp models of every type, well, that's what Class D is about!

 

Those are just general rules of course. Twins are 6L6 and "boutique" type amps might use anything, but I'd say to base your choice on use case rather than brand.

I've always been leery of the speakers that Line 6 uses in their "budget" lines.  If you switched to Catalyst, it's obviously working for you.  Care to comment/elaborate, for the speaker snobs out there like me?  I'm just curious.

[rd2rk]

On 6/30/2022 at 11:18 AM, boynigel said:

I've always been leery of the speakers that Line 6 uses in their "budget" lines.  If you switched to Catalyst, it's obviously working for you.  Care to comment/elaborate, for the speaker snobs out there like me?  I'm just curious.

 

Per comments from the design team in the Catalyst thread on TGP, they tested dozens of speakers, then spec'd out the design they decided on to (?).

 

My thoughts - unlike the single purpose speakers in most guitar amps, the Cat has to handle clean to mean in a power range of 0.5-100watts but was NOT intended or designed to be a "full range" speaker. That's why it sounds so good as a guitar amp speaker - because it is!

 

As to the speakers in the cheaper L6 modeling amps, I've never had one but a friend of mine who plays in a VERY loud punk/metal band has used a 75watt Spider for years. Never blown a speaker and sounds perfect in that context. Go figure!

[MGW-Alberta]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:54 AM, dacop13 said:

Do you use the Helix amp models with the Mk5 head or are you just using the Helix for effects with the Mk5? 

 

Both ways for differing reasons and differing sounds.  Sometimes an amp model is a great shortcut to a particular sound.  In those cases I typically use the clean channel of the amp.

I also use Helix to switch my amp channels for when I want the amp to provide the grind and the Helix for the f/x.  The amp uses a DIN jack and the channel switching is done on pin 2 of the DIN so I wired up a cable to the tip of a 1/4" phone plug on one end to Helix and pin 2 DIN on the other end to the amp.  I emailed Boogie to get the pin map.  My amp is a two channel job and I don't think it would be possible to do that without an external gadget of some kind on Boogies with more than two channels.  Also, it's a 112 combo, not a head but I do use a 112 Theile cab as well.