AB Split Block...why no toebutton assignable?

[markwesse]

Dont know if Im missing something obvious here...but I simply want to change the routing for an AB split to be 100%A on EXP1 and 100%B on EXP2

 

How is it done?

 

Thanks

[datacommando]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:36 AM, markwesse said:

Dont know if Im missing something obvious here...but I simply want to change the routing for an AB split to be 100%A on EXP1 and 100%B on EXP2

 

How is it done?

 

Thanks

Hi,

 

Way back! at the dawn of Helix, this was mentioned:

 

https://line6.com/support/topic/18138-switch-between-two-paths-with-expression-pedal/

And then this,

 

 

“The truth is out there”

(but it’s a lot more rewarding when discover stuff for yourself).

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[markwesse]

Hiya DC

The circuit done and very straight forward...wasnt actually the question...Why is toe switch not available for controlling the split? The rest is super basic.

 

ie I want the toe switch to changge the route from A > B based on switch state of Toeswitch...its not in the drop down...why is that?

In other words the path split modulation is binary child data based on the status of the toe switch, whenever EXP2 becomes active, the path switches the loop input off and allows modulation of the loop output while maintaining the guitar+fx on top

 

Its the equivalent of a looper or daw whereby once you have set a loop going, you play over the top of it independently 

OR

explained another way in abstract, its like using a guitar synth and using the sustain function to hold and modulate while soloing over the top etc

 

The question is def not...how do I control AB split:-)

HTH

 

Cheers

 

 

[datacommando]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:11 AM, markwesse said:

I want the toe switch to changge the route from A > B based on switch state of Toeswitch...its not in the drop down...why is that?

 

I have absolutely no idea - I didn't design the thing.

 

You're not making it clear exactly what you are trying to achieve? You last reply is a world away from the original post where you stated "I simply want to change the routing for an AB split to be 100%A on EXP1 and 100%B on EXP2". I replied that it is not necessary to use 2 expression pedals to switch from one path to another.

 

You say you need 2 paths, A and B, and when you press down the EXP Pedal Toe, it should switch paths? Theoretically, you can assign anything, to any other thing, using Instant Commands, but I don't know if this toe switch is an available option.

 

Nope, I can't see this happening. You can switch from path A to B, or any blend thereof, but I simply cannot comprehend how you think that one, or other of these paths will loop continually without a looper block engaged in either path. If you wish to play over a looping section of audio - stick a looper block in the path, or use an FX Send/Return block to a dedicated external looper. It works for me. You can then  have a whole bunch of effects dedicated to processing just the output of the looper, and play a completely different configuration of things for your guitar or whatever over the top of that.

 

?

[markwesse]

Hiya

Maybe I wasnt too clear, should have said exp2 toes-switch...apologies...maybe pictures help

 

 

I just want to be able to change the split to either go through the looper or the looper can play with no input just like monitoring the input/on off in a daw and I can play over the top with the normal fx stack; the toe-switch is the nexus

 

 

Works perfectly...except I cant use the toe-switch ie can operate with a footswitch or manually...you def dont need to externalise the looper

 

All would be fine if the toe-switch wasnt missing?

 

[codamedia]

On 7/18/2022 at 2:42 AM, markwesse said:

All would be fine if the toe-switch wasnt missing?

 

I don't have my Helix with me at this time... so I'm just going on the images you posted. 

 

So what you are saying is the TOE SWITCH is not available as a controller.

This has to be an oversight at Line 6... it's just another switch and should be assignable like any other switch on the Helix. 

 

I'd recommend that you open a support ticket with Line 6 and ask them if there is a reason why the TOE SWITCH isn't an option as a controller. You may get a direct response as to why it isn't. "Ideascale" is usually the best place for feature requests but something like this would get buried pretty fast. I see it more as an "oversight"... unless they had a good reason not to include it. 

 

FWIW... I've considered using the toe switch to control values at times. Ultimately I never did, but I certainly assumed it would have been an option, just like any other switch on the Helix is. 

[datacommando]

On 7/18/2022 at 8:42 AM, markwesse said:

Works perfectly...except I cant use the toe-switch

Hi,

 

I would guess the “toe switch” is not an assignable option because it’s basic function is to act as a bypass from Exp 1 to Exp 2. In its normal state Exp1 is active as a Wah, Pitch Whammy or whatever, but jump on the switch at it becomes a Volume pedal. These are the default settings, and it would appear that the switch only works as a bypass between Exp1 and 2. In your second screen capture image, you can see that where it says “Split A/B” the option is set to “Route To” the other choice from the drop down under “Route To”, is “Bypass” which does show Exp Toe. That’s it - that seem to be all it does - on/off.

 

Your signal path shown in the first screen capture would be an ideal candidate for any of the other A/B switching options - as it seems you have already discovered. Assign to another footswitch and it works just fine. It’s the sort of set up that many users employ to switch between paths. I would suggest that if you think that you have used up all your available footswitches, it might be time to investigate using “Snapshots” which is specifically for handling complex switching issues. Each preset can have 64 parameters distributed between 8 snapshots, giving you presets within presets. A simple 2 S/S preset could feed into the looper on snap 1, and give you the straight through path on snap 2. How much more complex does it need to be?

 

One thing I noticed in your example preset is that Path B seems to have a Send block that goes out and doesn’t seem to return? You obviously have a reason, but hey.

 

?

[markwesse]

On 7/18/2022 at 10:00 PM, datacommando said:

Hi,

 

I would guess the “toe switch” is not an assignable option because it’s basic function is to act as a bypass from Exp 1 to Exp 2. In its normal state Exp1 is active as a Wah, Pitch Whammy or whatever, but jump on the switch at it becomes a Volume pedal. These are the default settings, and it would appear that the switch only works as a bypass between Exp1 and 2. In your second screen capture image, you can see that where it says “Split A/B” the option is set to “Route To” the other choice from the drop down under “Route To”, is “Bypass” which does show Exp Toe. That’s it - that seem to be all it does - on/off.

 

Your signal path shown in the first screen capture would be an ideal candidate for any of the other A/B switching options - as it seems you have already discovered. Assign to another footswitch and it works just fine. It’s the sort of set up that many users employ to switch between paths. I would suggest that if you think that you have used up all your available footswitches, it might be time to investigate using “Snapshots” which is specifically for handling complex switching issues. Each preset can have 64 parameters distributed between 8 snapshots, giving you presets within presets. A simple 2 S/S preset could feed into the looper on snap 1, and give you the straight through path on snap 2. How much more complex does it need to be?

 

One thing I noticed in your example preset is that Path B seems to have a Send block that goes out and doesn’t seem to return? You obviously have a reason, but hey.

 

?

 

Cheers

 

Yeah snapshots is blessing/curse deal. Im using it with the hold function from command centre and the quick press calls the default snapshot, the hold action calls the deeper level ie slight verb vs deep verb and so on which seems to make it a lot easier...but its a far cry from multi state ie cycle though 3 states of the snapshots and double click calls default etc.

 

A simple 2 S/S preset could feed into the looper on snap 1, and give you the straight through path on snap 2. How much more complex does it need to be?

 

Yep thats the issue, once you assign the ss, you lock all the snapshot assigned parameters into that ie you cant turn them on/off per snapshot but more than that, the very nature of the way the looper is used is fully related to the toe switch...just seems quite lame to assign it to a fs when the exp2 trigger is the key.

 

The snapshots always occupy (by choice) the top row but they are limiting in many ways as it hardwires the pararmeters so that means they have to be set for each snapshot where some need to be stomp type.

 

Anyway, the toe would have been perfect but I guess I just have to workaround it...

 

RE: Send...Yeah the send depends on who/where Im playing. If Im at a larger gig, the send goes to FOH for a separate out for the looper where my mix engineer has more control vs small intimate gigs where I just feed it back into the path. I also get a feed back from the FOH into Live and am setting up the lower row of FS to control Live

One thing I would like to do but havent worked out is...

 

 

I would like to have a usb send at the currently selected block in the image so that I have a dry/compressed/eq feed to go into midi guitar in the Live computer. I realise 7&8 are di channels but I would like to trim and compress a bit. Just seems very logical that a send should also be able to route usb and be consistent with the rest of operations ie send/usb as output 'jacks'

 

 

[datacommando]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:17 PM, markwesse said:

Anyway, the toe would have been perfect but I guess I just have to workaround it...

You should follow the advice given by “codamedia”, in the post above. Contact Customer Support and/or post the suggestion of adding the extra toe switch functionality on IdeaScale.

 

On 7/18/2022 at 1:17 PM, markwesse said:

I would like to have a usb send at the currently selected block in the image so that I have a dry/compressed/eq feed to go into midi guitar in the Live computer.

Hmm… well the Helix doesn’t have the ability to break out to a USB channel in mid path, even with a FX Loop block, but it would be possible to move everything that is currently after the suggested break point down onto Paths 2A and 2B. That way you could lose path 1B and then change the output at the end of Path 1A from Multi to whichever USB channels you want to send to your Live computer. Then you would need to change the input of Path 2 to receive the USB output channels from your Live computer, through the other effects on 2A and also to the looper on 2B, finally out through Multi, XLR or 1/4” sockets.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[codamedia]

On 7/18/2022 at 7:00 AM, datacommando said:

These are the default settings, and it would appear that the switch only works as a bypass between Exp1 and 2. 

 

FWIW... with my LT, I use a 2nd EXP pedal, which is auto assigned to EXP 2 at all times. 

 

That leaves my TOE SWITCH open to do whatever I want with it. I actually use it to TOGGLE my VOLUME & WAH blocks ON/OFF. Both are controlled by EXP 1, but only one is on at any given time.

 

The TOE switch can control the ON/OFF state of anything, I honestly did not realize it wasn't allowed to control "values" like every other switch on the Helix does. MAYBE... just maybe... this is because it's default "controller setting" is to change EXP1 to EXP2....  I digress, OP should ask Line 6 why it isn't an option, I might even do that myself :) 

[markwesse]

On 7/18/2022 at 10:57 PM, datacommando said:

You should follow the advice given by “codamedia”, in the post above. Contact Customer Support and/or post the suggestion of adding the extra toe switch functionality on IdeaScale.

 

Hmm… well the Helix doesn’t have the ability to break out to a USB channel in mid path, even with a FX Loop block, but it would be possible to move everything that is currently after the suggested break point down onto Paths 2A and 2B. That way you could lose path 1B and then change the output at the end of Path 1A from Multi to whichever USB channels you want to send to your Live computer. Then you would need to change the input of Path 2 to receive the USB output channels from your Live computer, through the other effects on 2A and also to the looper on 2B, finally out through Multi, XLR or 1/4” sockets.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

RE: Send > USB...would be nice to have consistency...USB is an IO no different to a 1/4" I would have thought

 

Thanks DC

[markwesse]

Thanks...yeah I will ask...perhaps 2 peeps asking might help :-)

I have exp3 set for external eg Live/Guitar Synth...exp1/2 onboard is fine...just the switch missing else perfect

[datacommando]

On 7/18/2022 at 11:13 PM, codamedia said:

 

FWIW... with my LT, I use a 2nd EXP pedal, which is auto assigned to EXP 2 at all times. 

 

That leaves my TOE SWITCH open to do whatever I want with it. I actually use it to TOGGLE my VOLUME & WAH blocks ON/OFF. Both are controlled by EXP 1, but only one is on at any given time.

 

The TOE switch can control the ON/OFF state of anything, I honestly did not realize it wasn't allowed to control "values" like every other switch on the Helix does. MAYBE... just maybe... this is because it's default "controller setting" is to change EXP1 to EXP2....  I digress, OP should ask Line 6 why it isn't an option, I might even do that myself :) 

I know what you mean, as I also have 2 external Exp pedals (in Exp 2and 3) hooked up to my Helix floor. “Floor” is something of a misnomer, as it lives on a stand at the side of me and I can reach over and adjust things on the fly. This means that I never really use the built in pedal. I did try it out when I first bought the Helix, and discovered like many others, that the thing was an absolute beast to trigger the onboard footswitch to swap between Wah and Vol. Other than that I never considered using it to switch any other blocks, it’s just there and generally forgotten.

 

I guess if you have a use for it, it may be worth running it up on IdeaScale, or as you say, ask Line 6 is this is a possibility.

 

[markwesse]

On 7/19/2022 at 8:48 AM, datacommando said:

I know what you mean, as I also have 2 external Exp pedals (in Exp 2and 3) hooked up to my Helix floor. “Floor” is something of a misnomer, as it lives on a stand at the side of me and I can reach over and adjust things on the fly. This means that I never really use the built in pedal. I did try it out when I first bought the Helix, and discovered like many others, that the thing was an absolute beast to trigger the onboard footswitch to swap between Wah and Vol. Other than that I never considered using it to switch any other blocks, it’s just there and generally forgotten.

 

I guess if you have a use for it, it may be worth running it up on IdeaScale, or as you say, ask Line 6 is this is a possibility.

 

You can just stick a felt/hard rubber pad(s) on top of the actual button which makes it a lot easier to trigger :-) Just adjust the thickness to suit

[datacommando]

On 7/19/2022 at 3:36 AM, markwesse said:

You can just stick a felt/hard rubber pad(s) on top of the actual button which makes it a lot easier to trigger :-) Just adjust the thickness to suit

Thanks for the tip, although as I’m studio based my box of tricks lives on an angled stand at desktop height right beside me, and the onboard pedal remains unused.
 

I have the floor because the store I bought it from didn’t have the Helix Rack, and a guy had been in there early in the morning to buy the last Helix floor model they had in stock. It seems he returned a few hours later with the Helix unopened - his wife didn’t approve. Oops! I got a phone call and the following morning it was in my studio.

 

It’s all good clean fun!

[markwesse]

On 7/19/2022 at 8:07 PM, datacommando said:

Thanks for the tip, although as I’m studio based my box of tricks lives on an angled stand at desktop height right beside me, and the onboard pedal remains unused.
 

I have the floor because the store I bought it from didn’t have the Helix Rack, and a guy had been in there early in the morning to buy the last Helix floor model they had in stock. It seems he returned a few hours later with the Helix unopened - his wife didn’t approve. Oops! I got a phone call and the following morning it was in my studio.

 

It’s all good clean fun!

LOL...thats funny. Yeah I get it...Ive gone the other way and use to be almost exclusively in the studio...now its a balance of the 2 with a lot of nice peeps I hang with but more than that, the live play informs me of a finished and playable song, start to finish, which seems to really capture something but also rationalises and simplifies what I can do instead of a never ending production value...especially after binge watching 'minimalism' doco

 

All the best...