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Tone to harsh into real cab


canmetal
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Hello,

 

I'm using a Helix LT with a Hotone Loudster into a 2x12 cab but I feel the tone is to harsh and bright.

 

I tried playing with the amp settings, don't have any cab emulation or ir on the signal and did try playing with some eq's but have not been having much success on getting a good tone.

 

The 2 x 12 is vertical with a Vintage 30 on top and a Creamback 65 at the bottom. 

 

Any pointers will be really appreciated.

 

Thank you,

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I'm not familiar with that particular amp, but I can tell you that certain Class D amps do sound harsh. I had an EHX .44 Magnum that I sold on for that reason.

Your LT's Outputs should likely be set to LINE, and you can have a shot at using the Global EQ to tame it.

If you attach a sample preset that you're having this problem with I can have a look and see if it's something in the preset and I can run it into the poweramp/speaker in my Catalyst100.

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I'd lean more toward the "hotone loudster" as the problem than I would the Helix. 

If you have access to another power amp option.... try that and see if the problem still exists. 

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Thank you both for the replies.

 

@rd2rk I will try to upload one of the patches later for your review, thank you for offering.

 

I can try using the PowerAmp of a Joyo "Zombie" I have around.  It's a solid state power amp.  Will report back if there are any differences. 

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I'm running my hx stomp into a Sure electronics class D amp which I experienced a little harsh when I used it with my hifi speakers, but thru a 4x12 it sounds bloody awesome. It's unbalanced and has no case so I'm not sure if I can rely on it, maybe build it into a case and use it for live situations. What do you guys think? It's been running reliably in the rehearsal space for a while

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Make sure nothing's clipping from the last block in you Helix signal chain (i.e., the Helix output) through the power amp input. There's likely no good clipping in that part of the signal path.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/24/2022 at 3:19 AM, rd2rk said:

I'm not familiar with that particular amp, but I can tell you that certain Class D amps do sound harsh. I had an EHX .44 Magnum that I sold on for that reason.

Your LT's Outputs should likely be set to LINE, and you can have a shot at using the Global EQ to tame it.

If you attach a sample preset that you're having this problem with I can have a look and see if it's something in the preset and I can run it into the poweramp/speaker in my Catalyst100.

 

Hello @rd2rk  Apologies for the delay. Here are two files. One for the Cab and the other with the Stock Cabs for use on a PA.  I like the sound produced on the Stock Cab one and I think I was able to tame the harsh brightness on the other one.  Both the Hotone Loudster and my Joyo Zombie as power amp are actaully very dull, so I think it was some of the settings on the pedal and amp.

Patch Real Cab.hlx Patch Stock Cab.hlx

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DUDE!

You've got the treble and presence dimed, the mids scooped, the bass down AND a Rat, which cuts the bass even more and is DESIGNED to make an amp sound HARSH.

OF COURSE it's harsh!

All you need to put icing on this cake is to plug in a strat!

Wait - you're not playing a strat, are you?

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On 8/15/2022 at 10:21 PM, rd2rk said:

DUDE!

You've got the treble and presence dimed, the mids scooped, the bass down AND a Rat, which cuts the bass even more and is DESIGNED to make an amp sound HARSH.

OF COURSE it's harsh!

All you need to put icing on this cake is to plug in a strat!

Wait - you're not playing a strat, are you?

 

LOL, no, playing a Les Paul with EMG pickup.  I know about the treble and precence but it does not sound like that when going throgh the Stock Cab.  However, it does not sound as bad after chaning the Rat to 4.5 (used to have it at 0) and adding the High Cut.  I don't get the harsh picking sound anymore.

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On 8/16/2022 at 1:47 PM, canmetal said:

 

LOL, no, playing a Les Paul with EMG pickup.  I know about the treble and precence but it does not sound like that when going throgh the Stock Cab.  However, it does not sound as bad after chaning the Rat to 4.5 (used to have it at 0) and adding the High Cut.  I don't get the harsh picking sound anymore.

 

Whatever sounds GOOD to YOU is, in fact GOOD!

To ME, both of those presets sounded awful, and the only way I could see to improve them would be to change the things I mentioned.

Again, it's YOUR ears that you have to please, not mine. For all I know, in the context of your band, those settings might be perfect.

 

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On 8/16/2022 at 4:45 PM, rd2rk said:

 

Whatever sounds GOOD to YOU is, in fact GOOD!

To ME, both of those presets sounded awful, and the only way I could see to improve them would be to change the things I mentioned.

Again, it's YOUR ears that you have to please, not mine. For all I know, in the context of your band, those settings might be perfect.

 

 

The tone is to try to cover Metallica's first album.  It is very brittle but that's how it needs to sound.  I was just having that issue with the picking sounding super bad but now it's better.  Thanks for the pointers and help.  Cheers.

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On 8/16/2022 at 8:25 PM, canmetal said:

The tone is to try to cover Metallica's first album. 

 

The "Kill Em All" album, or did I miss one? 

 

Those tones on "Kill em All" have some rich mids, and a lower gain structure than you have dialed in. FWIW, I used my Les Paul for testing.

 

IMO... the 2204 model (JCM800) will get you closer to that tone than the Plexi. Don't scoop the mids, then add a TS (or RAT if you prefer) for leads. Let the amp carry the rhythm itself.  (add effects to taste)

 

Just my 2 cents... 

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On 8/17/2022 at 8:50 AM, codamedia said:

 

The "Kill Em All" album, or did I miss one? 

 

Those tones on "Kill em All" have some rich mids, and a lower gain structure than you have dialed in. FWIW, I used my Les Paul for testing.

 

IMO... the 2204 model (JCM800) will get you closer to that tone than the Plexi. Don't scoop the mids, then add a TS (or RAT if you prefer) for leads. Let the amp carry the rhythm itself.  (add effects to taste)

 

Just my 2 cents... 

 

Yes Kill Em All.  I'll try to play with the mids and gains.

 

I did try the 2204 but even with the Rat it misses that "bee buzzing" sound on the background when playing palm mutes that I can only hear with the Plexi/Rat combination.

 

Thanks for the input.

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For Kill'em All James Hetfield used a modded Marshall '59 SLP coupled with a Marshall 1960B 4x12 cab (sporting 4 Celestion Vintage 30).

 

The only pedal was a first gen Rat, but most of that tone was coming from that cranked Marshal.

 

As said above, mids were on the high zone. They started scooping mids later, and killing them all (pun intended) in Master of Puppets with the classic Metallica "V shaped" EQ.

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On 8/18/2022 at 4:00 AM, PierM said:

For Kill'em All James Hetfield used a modded Marshall '59 SLP coupled with a Marshall 1960B 4x12 cab (sporting 4 Celestion Vintage 30).

 

The only pedal was a first gen Rat, but most of that tone was coming from that cranked Marshal.

 

As said above, mids were on the high zone. They started scooping mids later, and killing them all (pun intended) in Master of Puppets with the classic Metallica "V shaped" EQ.

 

I think for Kill'em All the cabs used Greenbacks 25 as the V30s didn't come out until 86.  I know for Ride they used Creambacks 65.  This is why on the patch with Stock Cabs I used the Greenbacks cab and it does sound OK, need to probably increase the mids, which BTW helped to get me closer on my 2x12.

 

Cheers,

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On 8/19/2022 at 12:44 PM, canmetal said:

 

I think for Kill'em All the cabs used Greenbacks 25 as the V30s didn't come out until 86.  I know for Ride they used Creambacks 65.  This is why on the patch with Stock Cabs I used the Greenbacks cab and it does sound OK, need to probably increase the mids, which BTW helped to get me closer on my 2x12.

 

Cheers,

 

I think you are right about V30. Funny is, that info is coming from a Hetfield interview. Probably a bit of brain fog . :)

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