Any way to route this properly?

[Samdbl]

So, I use my hx stomp as an all in one for my electric solo gigs. I run each out to it’s own powered speaker for stereo sounds. Sounds huge. I recently got a voiceprint di pedal from lr baggs. it’s a di for acoustic that is basically a high end ir maker. The di is mono with mono 1/4 ins and outs. It also has an effects loop.

LR baggs strongly recommends it to be the last thing in the chain before the speakers. So I’m trying to figure out if there is a way to route so that:

1) the voiceprint uses the effects from the hx stomp, but is last in then chain. However, while still having the two outs of the hx stomp being used for the speakers so that I don’t have to just go to one speaker from the baggs di. 
2) have this be a preset, not global. Because when I switch to another preset for my electric guitar mid set, I’d want the hx to run as I normally do (sans lr baggs di)

I tried to go from the send of the di to the return of the hx and return of the di to the send of the hx, and then chose fxloop mono, but didn’t seem to get a signal. Would I need to go from the actual out (not loop out) of the di in the return of the hx and pick return r on the hx, or something? Is this even feasible? 

[rd2rk]

Not a lot of info here so I'll need to make assumptions.

 

With a 2.2M Input Impedance the VPDI obviously wants the acoustic plugged into its Input.

This means that whatever HXS FX you want to use will come AFTER the VPDI or in its FX Loop.

 

In Global Settings>Ins/Outs set Send/Returns L and R to LINE and Return Type to RETURN.

 

Start here (simple method):

 

Acoustic>VPDI Input>VPDI Output>HXS Return L>HXS Return L Bock (MIX 100%)>HXS FX>HXS Output Block>HXS Outputs>Powered Speakers

 

Simple wiring but the VPDI is NOT last in the signal chain. I don't think it will matter, this is just like running into a board and adding FX after.

 

BUT... ALTERNATIVELY:

 

To put the HXS in the VPDI's FX Loop run a cable from the HXS FX Send to the VPDI FX Return and another from the VPDI's FX Send to the HXS L/Mono FX Return. 

 

Place a RETURN L Block before any HXS FX and a SEND L Block after.

Take the OUTPUT from the VPDI to the HXS RETURN R and place a RETURN R Block last in the signal chain.

 

Acoustic>VPDI Input>VPDI FX Send>HXS Return L>HXS Return L Block (MIX 100%)>HXS FX>HXS Send L Block (DRY THRU -120db)>VPDI FX Return>VPDI Out>HXS Return R>HXS Return R Block>HXS Output Block>HXS Outputs>Powered Speakers

 

That places the VPDI last in the signal chain before the HXS Outputs to the speakers.

 

Try both ways and use the method that sounds best.

 

Use shielded TS cables (guitar cables) in both methods.

 

If you decide to try an acoustic IR, put it LAST before the Output Block.

 

Your Electric stays plugged into the HXS Input and you just change Presets depending on which instrument you're using.

 

 

 

[Samdbl]

Thanks so much. Super helpful as always! One more question: Would it be possible to route the tuner on the HX to work on the signal coming through the fx loop in the latter scenario? In other words, I'd love to not have to put another tuner pedal on my board just for the VPDI (which doesn't have an on board tuner).

[rd2rk]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:39 AM, Samdbl said:

Thanks so much. Super helpful as always! One more question: Would it be possible to route the tuner on the HX to work on the signal coming through the fx loop in the latter scenario? In other words, I'd love to not have to put another tuner pedal on my board just for the VPDI (which doesn't have an on board tuner).

 

Acoustic>VPDI Input>VPDI FX Send>HXS L/Mono Input (set to LINE or INST whichever works better with the VPDI SEND)>HXS FX>HXS FX Loop L>HXS FX Send L/Mono Out>VPDI FX Return>VPDI Out>HXS Return L>HXS Output Block>HXS Outputs>Powered Speakers

 

That gives you signal at the HXS Input which is where the tuner gets it's signal.

[Samdbl]

You are awesome, as always. Let me throw one more at you:

What if I wanted two mono inputs instead of one stereo pair? So I could run my electric in L input, as usual. And have the VPDI plugged into the R input on the HX for my acoustic patches? All of the tutorials I’ve watched are geared towards having two instruments with two paths plugged in and playing at the same time on one preset. However, what I’m wanting to do is have the VPDI plugged in and ready to go, but only play it when I’m not playing the electric. So it’d be otherwise muted. So, like, when I’m switching between songs.

[rd2rk]

That'll work. The tuner takes signal from either input. Just don't forget to hit the mute switch on the VPDI when you switch to your electric preset!

[Samdbl]

It doesn't have some weird affect by assuming I have a stereo source plugged in (as opposed to two mono sources to be used one at a time)?

[rd2rk]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:42 PM, Samdbl said:

It doesn't have some weird affect by assuming I have a stereo source plugged in (as opposed to two mono sources to be used one at a time)?

 

Well, with both inputs in use, if you stand too close to the HXS it's possible that your pants might catch on fire, so keep an eye out for that.

 

:-)

 

The HXS Paths are stereo. Note that I said paths, plural.

If you plug a guitar into the L/Mono, it will be on both L and R Channels.

If you plug a guitar into the R jack it will be on the R Channel only.

If you plug in 2 guitars one will be on the L Channel and the other on the R Channel.

If the first block is mono, you now have both instruments combined in mono.

If the first block is stereo, you now have both instruments combined in stereo.

In either case they are no longer discrete L/R signals to discrete L/R outputs.

 

In order to have two instruments in discrete paths you need to split the paths and hard pan them at the split.

You then have 2 discrete stereo paths and can put totally different stereo effects on each path.

When you merge the paths before the stereo outputs the L channels of paths A and B will go LEFT and the R channels will go RIGHT.

 

Check out the attached demo preset.

The signals enter the HXS with the guitar in the LEFT (L/Mono Input) channel and the bass in the RIGHT (RIGHT Input) channel.

At the split the signals are hard panned.

The guitar goes to Path A in stereo. The bass goes to Path B in stereo.

When the signals hit their respective amps, they are collapsed to mono.

The next block in each path is stereo, so the signals are restored to stereo.

When the stereo signals from both paths hit the merge the left channels are combined and sent to the left out, the right channels are sent right.

In this way you can have two people jamming in stereo with entirely separate amps and stereo effects.

 

Now, suppose you wanted each instrument to have independent stereo monitors on stage. If you pull down the MERGE block Path A is stereo to outputs 1/2 and Path B is stereo to the SENDS (3/4 if using USB for recording).

 

Your pants will NOT catch on fire unless the jam is REALLY HOT!

 

Finally, if your needs are very simple and you choose your FX with DSP in mind, you COULD play your entire gig with acoustic and electric using a couple of variations of the attached preset. You really don't need all of that tomfoolery with the sends and fx loops. Think of it like this - if you were in a recording studio you'd plug your VPDI directly into the board and the engineer would add effects as necessary. That's exactly what you're doing here with the HXS as the board and no overpaid engineer telling you what HE thinks you should sound like!

 

I know, that's a lot more info than you asked for, but WTH.

How the HXS routes stereo is one of the most important and most misunderstood functions of the HXS and applies across the board on all Helix family devices AND Native.

 

Thank You, and Good Night!

Dual St Paths.hlx

[Kilrahi]

I do feel the need to warn the OP that if they are not careful one day their overworked Stomp is gonna say, "F this" and walk out on them. 

 

Make sure you occasionally let it choose the activity, like controlling a YouTube video or something. 

 

 

[Samdbl]

Thanks. I’ll work on this. The bummer is that I have it all set up and working as I want with the effects loop. But that means I can’t use the tuner on the hx stomp for the acoustic. I don’t want to add a tuner. So now I have to do this other routing stuff to get the tuner to accept the acoustic signal.

[rd2rk]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:23 AM, Samdbl said:

Thanks. I’ll work on this. The bummer is that I have it all set up and working as I want with the effects loop. But that means I can’t use the tuner on the hx stomp for the acoustic. I don’t want to add a tuner. So now I have to do this other routing stuff to get the tuner to accept the acoustic signal.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is. Did you try the Dual ST Paths preset I attached?

[Samdbl]

On 8/17/2022 at 12:35 PM, rd2rk said:

 

I'm not sure what the problem is. Did you try the Dual ST Paths preset I attached?

 

Yeah, it downloaded and examined it. It looks like it'd work. The only problem with that method is I'd have to go back and put a second path, albeit a blank one, on all of my existing presets. And the ones I use for gigging have all of the blocks used up. So can't insert the required block to get the split point. I wish there was just a global control to turn the inputs into dual mono inputs. Wishful thinking, i guess. 

[rd2rk]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:57 PM, Samdbl said:

 

Yeah, it downloaded and examined it. It looks like it'd work. The only problem with that method is I'd have to go back and put a second path, albeit a blank one, on all of my existing presets. And the ones I use for gigging have all of the blocks used up. So can't insert the required block to get the split point. I wish there was just a global control to turn the inputs into dual mono inputs. Wishful thinking, i guess. 

 

No, you don't.

That preset was configured that way just to demonstrate concepts.

 

Are you using effects on your electric presets whose input impedances are <1M such as certain fuzzes?

Attached is a text file that lists the input impedances for most of the effects. The "authenticity" of the tone of such effects is dependent on loading the guitar's pickups in such a way as to attenuate the pickup's high frequencies. This requires that the guitar be plugged directly into the HXS's Input.

If you're not using such effects, don't care about the "authenticity" or can swap them for 1M effects then that doesn't matter.

 

This allows for two simple solutions.

1 - Plug the electric into a Volume Pedal (loads the pickups at 1M - no HF attenuation) and turn it off when you go acoustic. This does the same thing as the BYPASS switch on the VPDI (not ideal).

OR

2 - Get an ABY box (loads the pickups at 1M - no HF attenuation) and run both the electric and the VPDI into its inputs and the output into the HXS's L/Mono Input (ideal - the way the pros do it!).

 

The VPDI loads the acoustic's pickups at 2M - even less HF attenuation. What comes after doesn't affect pickup loading, but if you run the VPDI into analog FX (HXS is digital) it CAN affect tone. See below.

 

Remember - unless you're feeding the Helix a stereo signal (or two instruments requiring discrete paths as in my demo preset) your signal chain doesn't CARE which input the signal comes from. The first mono block it hits turns the single left or right input channel into a dual mono signal, the first stereo block turns it into a stereo signal.

 

Your presets are fine as they are.

 

You load the proper preset (1 or 2 HXS button presses, depending on how cleverly your presets are ordered) and BYPASS the instrument you're not using by simply pushing one button on the ABY box. No cable swapping. Simple to do while you're entertaining your audience with witty between tunes patter!

 

This will work but requires external power for the LEDs (not essential):

 

On-Stage GSP1000 ABY Switcher Pedal | Sweetwater

 

This is better and can run on a battery - low draw means rechargeables will work:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ABYGold--morley-aby-gold-2-button-aby-signal-switcher-pedal

 

This thread started with you asking for a complex configuration that isn't really necessary to accomplish your goal of being able to put down one guitar and pick up the other. I looked at the VPDI manual and I do not believe that the recommendation that it be last in chain applies here. They're talking about an analog signal chain.

 

 

 

Helix FX Impedance.txt