Acoustic Sim help

[theElevators]

Hey guys.  Does anybody have any pointers regarding getting a nice and balanced acoustic sound out of a Helix?  I'm attaching my preset.  This preset is intended for the Bridge Humbucker sound, medium output (on the Les Paul, the volume knob would be on around 4).  I am still struggling with the wild inconsistencies when I switch between 2 almost identical guitars.  Any compressors, or something that could help me? 

Zaebali!.hlx

Basically the acoustic sound should be suitable for rhythm strumming.  I can never find a happy medium: it's either too boomy/bassy or piercing without any sustain and hollow sounding. 

 

Thanks in advance,

d.

[Kilrahi]

Personally, I don't feel it's realistic to expect to be able to switch between two different guitars and have the settings still work. Especially if they have different pickup types.  I know you indicated they're nearly identical - but the fact that you hear it as "wildly inconsistant" indicates they are not nearly as identical as you believe they are. The Helix didn't change - the guitars did - and the result was "wildly inconsistant."

 

I personally like the enhancements Line 6 built into it. I strongly reccomend using the "enhanced" mode. I tend to turn up the shimmer a bit. I prefer split humbuckers or single coil. I turn up the top slightly and set an EQ block to more closely match an acoustic guitar (I'm kind of doubling up in a way because that's what the simulator does - and to be clear - any enhancements I do on a seperate EQ block are very gentle taste tweaks). 

 

Finally, I find light pick attacks and light strumming carries the best result. Too much grit and it sounds like an electric. 

 

This will ALWAYS be a "this is the best I could do here" and never feel like it's on par with an acoustic guitar. It's great for a show where the acoustic takes center stage once in a while and for short bursts so "it isn't worth packing it" kind of moment. You may also find the below helpful:

 

 

[brue58ski]

Forget the acoustic sim pedal in the Helix for an accurate acoustic sound. It sounds like what it is, a magnetic pickup, trying to sound like an acoustic guitar. I do use it to mold my  Variax acoustics but from a magnetic pickup, it will be OK at best. Glen Delaune has some Acoustic sim patches for sale for the Helix and magnetic pickups. I believe they use different IR's for different magnetic pickup types. I have not gotten them so I cannot attest to their accuracy.

 

https://www.glenndelaune.com/helix-patches.htm#!/Helix-Acoustic-Guitar-Simulations-Patches/p/390115125/category=117975648

 

UPDATE: I just looked at the description on the website and it does NOT mention magnetic pickups so I was wrong about that. Left it in case you wanted to check it out anyway.

[DunedinDragon]

Honestly the only time I've ever used the acoustic sim is within a song that may have a short acoustic guitar section where I can get away with it.  If it's anything more than that I use an acoustic.  It's just never going to really sound authentic in my opinion.

[themetallikid]

I use it quite well in my Stone Temple Pilots band for full songs (Sour Girl) and for parts (Interstate Love Song, Creep).  It took a few breakthroughs to get it to sound right. I can share the blocks of what I have saved if that could help, rather than a full preset.   I believe my current 'acoustic path' in my presets where I need it consists of this:

 

Gain Block > Compressor > Acoustic Sim > EQ > IR (I use 2 Acoustic IR's here, one more bright and one more wooly and mix the levels)

 

The trick for me (I have the signature Hetfield EMG's installed) is the gain block.  I found that, similar to the poly blocks, too hot of an input will trigger the poly/sim block to be fed too much information.  Not that it cant keep up, but rather that too much 'noise' was coming through.  By reducing the signal level by about 4-6db, it let me get more of the acoustic attack only coming through and not as much unwanted noise that wasnt needed for the part I was trying to play. You could use the input pad instead, if you arent already, however I prefer having the number of reduction there in front of me, and I had space in the preset, as well as making it snapshot assignable for songs where I split between an electric sound as well.  Also the compressor, I feel is important to set right.  Too much and you miss the dynamics of the strumming an acoustic.  Its a flat wall of sound and sounds like an effect.  If you get it just right where it needs to be it helps maintain a consistent signal, without crushing the dynamics.  I played with putting this before and after the acoustic sim, and felt it was better before.  

 

As far as making any tweaks to make 2 guitar sound closer overall, I would start with whatever acoustic sound gets you where you want on your main axe, then add the EQ or tweak the gain block to help match that one with the 2nd guitar.  

 

I'm at work, if I remember later I can share the blocks I use.   

[themetallikid]

Should add as well, that I typically play this on the bridge pickup, sometimes on the middle position (2 pickup config)

[themetallikid]

Ok, So here are the 4 of the 6 blocks I use for my acoustic tone for my Stone Temple Pilots band.  These were taking from my Creep preset because that one has a lot more acoustic banging/strumming in it than the others that are a little softer.  These are starting points for me, I will tweak to taste per the song needs as well.  

 

Again I play with these in the order of Gain Block>Acoustic Sim> EQ > IR

 

The Ir's I use are from 3 Sigma I believe.  The ones I use specifically are the Martin 45E Piezo 5b and 5c IR's in a split path on path 2.  They each have their own EQ's to help them fill out the space.  The 5b is the brighter sounding side and the 5c is the thicker one.  The Eq's help that along to seperate a little more what the IR's are doing.  

 

I play this on the Bridge for this song (because I need the bridge for the chorus) and also the bridge on Interstate Love Song's intro.  I use this on Sour Girl as well, but play the middle pickup position to soften it.  The bass does get out of control on that preset using the middle selection so I have it eq'd differently to help.   I use the Hetfield EMG's so they are hotter.  I found that the -4.5db gain reduction mimicked what the input pad was doing for me or got me very close, I just prefer it in the block form visually.  

 

 

STP Acstc 2.fav STP Acstc Brite .fav STP Actsc Dark.fav STP Acstc Gain 2.fav

[theElevators]

I just added "double take" in stereo to my chain, and that made the acoustic sound more 3d and sustain-y.  I think I'm happy now. 

[josehdx]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:58 PM, theElevators said:

I just added "double take" in stereo to my chain, and that made the acoustic sound more 3d and sustain-y.  I think I'm happy now. 

Excuse me, what do you mean with double take?

 

Thanks

[theElevators]

On 8/21/2022 at 2:19 PM, josehdx said:

Excuse me, what do you mean with double take?

 

Thanks

Modulation / Double Take.  This is supposed to sound like 2 guitar tracks for the same track, or 3 or 4, etc.  I like the way it sounds, but there's a caveat: with stereo doubler, when you mix down to mono, there are phasing issues!  To the point of the sound losing decibels. 

[themetallikid]

On 8/21/2022 at 12:58 PM, theElevators said:

I just added "double take" in stereo to my chain, and that made the acoustic sound more 3d and sustain-y.  I think I'm happy now. 

Where did you add it in your chain?  I'm curious and will explore as well.  

[theElevators]

On 8/22/2022 at 8:55 AM, themetallikid said:

Where did you add it in your chain?  I'm curious and will explore as well.  

I added it as the 2nd last thing in the chain.  The last block is a delay.  But again, please check how it sounds in mono for you -- meaning you have a stereo preset where you add this effect to, but check how your entire rig sounds in mono.  I always check all my presets in mono and instereo, to make sure, that should I ever need to play a gig where there is no option for stereo, the balance would not be screwed up.

 

I ran the stereo block with default settings, except I turned down the "SLOP' to 0 or 1.

 

I did an A/B test: added the stereo block, and enabled/disabled it, when I had:

a) 2 monitors connected to the Helix, enabling/disabling the block had no noticeable volume jumps.  Pretty much just made the sound "wider" and in stereo.

b) Left only the left/mono monitor connected.  When the same stereo block was engaged, the perceived volume dropped by around 5 db. 

 

So somehow this block is behaving differently when the rig is in mono vs. stereo.  I suspect that the 2 stereo channels when mixed down cancel each other out in mono, due to phasing. 

[themetallikid]

On 8/22/2022 at 8:39 AM, theElevators said:

I added it as the 2nd last thing in the chain.  The last block is a delay.  But again, please check how it sounds in mono for you -- meaning you have a stereo preset where you add this effect to, but check how your entire rig sounds in mono.  I always check all my presets in mono and instereo, to make sure, that should I ever need to play a gig where there is no option for stereo, the balance would not be screwed up.

 

I ran the stereo block with default settings, except I turned down the "SLOP' to 0 or 1.

 

I did an A/B test: added the stereo block, and enabled/disabled it, when I had:

a) 2 monitors connected to the Helix, enabling/disabling the block had no noticeable volume jumps.  Pretty much just made the sound "wider" and in stereo.

b) Left only the left/mono monitor connected.  When the same stereo block was engaged, the perceived volume dropped by around 5 db. 

 

So somehow this block is behaving differently when the rig is in mono vs. stereo.  I suspect that the 2 stereo channels when mixed down cancel each other out in mono, due to phasing. 

sure, that all makes sense.  I'll check it out.  Appreciate the suggestion.