Jump to content

Headrush FRFR 108 or Alto TS310 for Helix LT


Dany_91
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone! Sorry in advance for my english. I own an Helix LT and I'm not sure if it's better the Headrush FRFR 108 or the Alto ts310.

I will play this at home, in small events or with some friends. I have these questions:

1- The Alto it's not an FRFR, right?

2- Speaking with someone who sell these products they told me the headrush it's better with modeler like Helix because it's FRFR

3- There is a lot of difference with the "low"? because the 8" of the Headrush instead of 10" about the Alto

4- The 8" it's good to play at home or in small events or just with some friends?

5- Which one do you suggest?
Thanks very much!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now to be helpful beyond the picture - from my understanding the Headrush is essentially a repurposed Alto speaker. 

 

There aren't huge differences. Either should give you the same level of service. I'd pick the one that gives you the price you want and the decibal level you want. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the office, so thanks for the laugh XD 

I read that are basically the same, but I don't get why the headrush it's FRFR and the alto don't

Also there's much difference between the 8" and the 10" to play in those occasions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most any PA speaker is Full Range (20-20khz).

Unless you're very well off you can't afford the kind of studio monitors that come CLOSE to being truly Flat Response.

And studio monitors aren't going to be much use in live performance.

So, when some sales person says "Get this, it's FRFR! You NEED that with a modeler!" you immediately know that they're at best FOS.

 

Now as to your real question "What's best for use with a modeler in home/jam/small bar/party scenarios?"

Many players like the FRFR108, but some say they're "boomy". If you go this way, get them off the floor with a pair of short PA speaker stands.

I had the Alto TS210 and didn't like it. I have the FRFR112. It's a pretty good BASS amp.

Fact is, what I don't like about "FRFR" speakers is the effect that the HF Drivers have on distorted tones. They're fine for CLEAN tones but add "fizz" to distorted tones. For guitar I use a PC212+ in RAW or Speaker Emulation mode (no HF Driver). BUT - see below...

 

Yes, yes, EQ, blah blah. Guitar amps sound like guitar amps because guitar speakers start to attenuate the hi frequencies around 5k. It's a gradual attenuation, but there's not much being reproduced above 10-12k. Since most adults can't hear much above 15k anyway, what's the point of having a hi-frequency driver to bring the range up to 20khz? Unless you LIKE fizzy overdrive sounds?

 

IOW - it's a marketing myth that you NEED FRFR speakers for use with a guitar modeler!

 

So, what to do? What's your budget? What kind of music do you play?

 

A guitar amp with an FX Loop allows you to plug the modeler into the amp's power amp (FX Loop Return).

A tube guitar amp will color the tone more than a SS amp.

Short of HEAVY Metal, an open back cab provides good tone and a good sound spread for small rooms.

IMO, HEAVY Metal chugga-chugga sounds better through a closed back cab but closed back cabs tend to be more directional than open back cabs.

 

A high quality designed for guitar SS amp (Quilter?) and a 1 or 2-12 convertible (removable back panel) cab with relatively wide range speakers (Kappalite neo?) could be just the thing, but pricey. I recently bought a Catalyst100. Since I don't play HEAVY Metal the open back cab sounds great. You can probably pick up a Katana50 amp REALLY cheap. Heck, get two and have STEREO! In either case, you don't NEED to use the amp's front end, just plug your Helix into the amp's FX Loop Return. The additional front-end amps/fx are icing and a great back-up if your Helix takes a dive.

 

These are things you need to think about. Nobody can tell you what will sound best TO YOU. Sometimes you just need to find a way to check out the options and decide for yourself.

 

Whatever you decide, if it's a guitar amp don't forget the FX Loop, and whatever it is, GET IT OFF THE FLOOR!

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/17/2022 at 12:49 PM, Dany_91 said:

I love the office, so thanks for the laugh XD 

I read that are basically the same, but I don't get why the headrush it's FRFR and the alto don't

Also there's much difference between the 8" and the 10" to play in those occasions?

 

To give more detail, the Alto came out first - somewhere about a half a year to a year before the Headrush if I remember right. The phrase "FRFR" is MOSTLY a sales buzz word, and it hadn't reached quite the fever pitch yet that it had by the time of the Headrush version. In my opinion, it was modelers like the Helix, the Stomp (which came out in between the Alto and the Headrush speakers), and the Headrush (which ALSO released a gigboard version of their modeler shortly before their speaker) that really caused the concept of "FRFR" to really catch on fire. 

 

The company that brands the Headrush version of the speaker you're looking at just so happens to make a modeler as well, and so they are heavily focused on promoting the buzzword of "FRFR" for the Headrush. The Alto was released more as a general all purpose speaker. The majority of that audience would either not know or be unimpressed with the idea of "FRFR." To them that's a basic duh that a PA speaker should have a pretty big frequency range. If it didn't they wouldn't buy it. 

 

In fact, it might help to compare their frequency range - after all, in theory if you want a FRFR the frequency range is a key part of what you're after. If you do that, the Alto reports a range of 48Hz-22kHz and a maximum decibal level of 129dB. The Headrush reports 52-22kHz with a max 129dB. 

 

Notice the difference? I wouldn't reccomend buying the more expensive Headrush over an alleged 4Hz frequency difference. 

 

Even if that difference is real, do you think you will be able to hear the difference? I know I wouldn't. 

 

Edit: After checking prices I guess the Alto is usually MORE expensive . . .so get the Headrush. Extra 4Hz of unhearable frequency range for the win!!!

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/17/2022 at 12:49 PM, Dany_91 said:

I love the office, so thanks for the laugh XD 

I read that are basically the same, but I don't get why the headrush it's FRFR and the alto don't

Also there's much difference between the 8" and the 10" to play in those occasions?

 

The main APPARENT difference between the Alto and HR is that the Alto has preamps for direct use with microphones.

 

They're BOTH "FRFR".

 

When I got my FRFR112 I engaged their support staff in a painfully lengthy discussion over what exactly their marketing folks meant by "tuned for guitar". They either could not or would not provide an answer, which to me translates as "It's meaningless marketing BS". Yet, in the one YT comparison I saw between the FRFR112 and the Alto TS212, using music playback (not guitar playing), they sounded very different, the TS212 being MUCH better sounding in the context of MUSIC PLAYBACK. So, if you also use them for DJ work, go with the Alto.

 

Speaker size in this context (different for guitar amps) has mainly to do with the amount of air being pushed, which translates roughly to SPL (total max volume).

A pair of FRFR108 cabs will have MORE than enough for your needs. There have been a number of YT vids by Metal Heads who like them just fine.

 

If you interpreted my previous post to be intended to disparage you from going with the FRFR108, it was not.

My intent was to provide points for your consideration.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw the headrush reports 46-22kHz and the alto reports 54-22kHz.

But the alto is yeah more expensive.

Beside that the alto is 10" and the headrush is 8". About this point do you think you can notice the difference for home/jam/small bar/party scenarios?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As @rd2rk wisely pointed out, no, I don't think you'll ever notice. If you even tried to notice you'd permanently lose your hearing. Rest easy - you're free to buy which of the two works best for your budget. 

 

If I were to buy one for guitar today, I'd get the Headrush. If I wanted a more general use device that might need microphone interaction at some point, I'd get the Alto. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/17/2022 at 1:42 PM, Dany_91 said:

I saw the headrush reports 46-22kHz and the alto reports 54-22kHz.

 

Note Frequencies:

 

G 49.00  
G♯/A♭ 51.91  
A 55.00  
A♯/B♭ 58.27  
B 61.74  
 
  C 65.41  
C♯/D♭ 69.30  
D 73.42  
D♯/E♭ 77.78  
E 82.41 Lowest note of a guitar

 

 

Low E in standard tuning = 82.41

Lowest note in Drop C = 65.41

 

I think you're safe either way.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I keep saying is that unless I have a 12" speaker cab, everything else feels wimpy, doesn't move enough air and sounds like a wedge monitor IMHO.  12" speaker is the way to go. 

 

I got a Headrush 108 FRFR -- It's great for rehearsals, everything is right there, but still doesn't feel "traditional".  It's so powerful that I've used it for bass, and it's always in the the trunk of my car.  However....   It's boomy, which can be compensated by putting it on a stand, also very directional, just like your wedge monitor.  You can be in a situation where one second it's loud, and then you walk away and don't hear anything. 

 

Recently I started using a 12" speaker from whatever backline amp I get, and I power it with Mooer Baby Bomb.  I previously sold my guitar amp, and wound up buying an Orange 112.  Mooer Baby Bomb + 112 sounds awesome, plenty loud for a bar gig, and feels traditional.  Here's a sample of what my cover band sounds like with it. 

 

Helix => Baby Bomb => 112  that's it. 

 

https://youtu.be/PznAmj7q3Mk (hear it live)

https://youtu.be/l51UjdT02js (me reviewing Baby Bomb)

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In case you haven't gotten the drift yet....here it is ONE MORE TIME:  There is no such thing as a FRFR speaker!!  There is no standard for it.  There is no standard reference for it.  It is purely a marketing term and means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in any measurable way.

There are speakers that fall "broadly" in the family of what might be considered FRFR, but what you are ultimately talking about are powered, bi-amp design PA style speakers with some level of DSP driven frequency profiling across it's frequency response range.  They are not all created equal, and you pay for what you get.  In short, both the ALTO and the Headrush FRFR are at the bottom rung of capability when it comes to these sort of speakers because they're on the bottom rung of the price range.  The don't compare very well at all with the more notable and recognized brands from EV, Yamaha, QSC or even JBL, and their performance reflects that.

All that being said, that doesn't mean you might not be happy with them depending on your needs for accuracy and fidelity of sound and the type of tuning options you might feel you need.  Personally I choose to invest in higher end equipment such as Yamaha or QSC simply because I can custom tune those speakers to different types of applications if I need to such as a floor monitor configuration, a live band PA, or a recorded music setup and their tuning will be optimized for such a thing.

As in all musical equipment, you get what you pay for.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/17/2022 at 9:45 PM, Kilrahi said:

If I were to buy one for guitar today, I'd get the Headrush. If I wanted a more general use device that might need microphone interaction at some point, I'd get the Alto. 

 

Could you explain why for guitar today you'd get the Headrush instead of the Alto?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Key word there is "allegedly". I never got a straight answer from them about the "tuned for guitar" claim.

You can probably still find the HR/Alto comparison I mentioned on YT.

 

Anecdotal addition to the discussion. I had a fly date to western Michigan and at the last minute discovered that the backline amps were not going to be available and the PA was minimal. I rented a QSC K10.2 from the local GC to use with my HXS. It sounded WAY better than my Alto 210.

 

As @DunedinDragonsaid, you get what you pay for. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Here was my fave sound test in a language I don't understand. It even uses our beloved Helix. 

 

I . . . I don't really know that this decision needs so much investigation. It's kind of like if I wrote a 45 page essay trying to decide between a Quarter Pounder with Cheese or a Bacon Quarter Pounder with Cheese. 

 

Hopefully some of this helps though! 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 8/18/2022 at 6:00 PM, Kilrahi said:

 

 

Here was my fave sound test in a language I don't understand. It even uses our beloved Helix. 

 

I . . . I don't really know that this decision needs so much investigation. It's kind of like if I wrote a 45 page essay trying to decide between a Quarter Pounder with Cheese or a Bacon Quarter Pounder with Cheese. 

 

Hopefully some of this helps though! 

 

 

 

so, my hear it's not so good but it sounds pretty the same to me XD probably just a little bit better the headrush but still pretty the same

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/18/2022 at 11:54 AM, Dany_91 said:

what kind of notable difference did you hear?

 

HR seemed to have a bit more in the low mids in the CLEAN example, and more clarity in the distorted examples.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/18/2022 at 7:57 PM, rd2rk said:

 

HR seemed to have a bit more in the low mids in the CLEAN example, and more clarity in the distorted examples.

 

that is a thing that buying an Alto 10" instead of 8" you shoudn't notice, right? especially the low part..i don't know

 

because i'm actually thinking to go with the alto 10" bc it should have more low than the headrush 8" and also bc you can use them with microphone etc in the future if you need..but yeah between alto 8" and headrush 8" is probably better the last one..but i still don't know if the alto 10" should play better than headrush 8" and if for home and small events 10" it's too much or 8" could be too small

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, Dany_91 said:

that is a thing that buying an Alto 10" instead of 8" you shoudn't notice, right? especially the low part..i don't know

 

Maybe.

 

On 8/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, Dany_91 said:

because i'm actually thinking to go with the alto 10" bc it should have more low than the headrush 8"

 

Maybe.

 

On 8/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, Dany_91 said:

and also bc you can use them with microphone etc in the future if you need

 

If you think that's important.

 

On 8/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, Dany_91 said:

but i still don't know if the alto 10" should play better than headrush 8" and if for home and small events 10" it's too much or 8" could be too small

 

It's your money. At some point you gotta get out there and spend it. We can't do it for you!

Don't the stores in your country have returns policies?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who previously used Alto speakers with the helix, they were the TS210's, they nearly caused me to sell the helix thinking it didn't sound as good as it should. Luckily I just sold the Alto's and kept the helix, got some HS07's and what a difference.

 

The problem with the Alto's was that they were far too dark and boomy, and they squashed the tone. You may be able to EQ that out, but as a solution to just plug straight into, I thought they were a let down for what I was using them for, they are however quite good PA disco type speakers, probably because they have the low end.

 

The HS07's plugged straight in and were a massive improvement straight out of the box - so I would be wary of Alto's unless you've tried them with your gear and had a good result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...