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[SOLVED] Mimic Flip/Flop Function in Stomp Mode v3.15


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This has now been solved, to ignore the nonsense and jump to the instructions, click the little grey arrow below... 

 

 

ORIGINAL POST

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Hi There,

 

I have a Crunch, OD and Distortion setup on an HX FX and need to link them so that hitting one, disables the others and hitting any that are on, disables it. GigRig might call these flop/flop loops and I have another hardware loop switcher that has this functionality.

 

I've tried assigning each pedal to a snapshot, then assigning each snapshot to a switch but I can't fix the following problems:

  1. Hitting a snapshot that's on, doesn't turn it off
  2. Snapshot switches randomly change from a specific snapshot, to 'next snapshot' for no discernible reason
  3. Can't change the colour of snapshot switches
  4. Can't rename snapshot switches

 

Sorry if this is easy, I might be using the wrong search terms - any pointers would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

HX FX 3.15

HX Edit 3.15

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On 9/6/2022 at 10:30 AM, cmscss said:

any pointers would be much appreciated.


Hi,

 

You’re not going to like this, but… RTM

 

https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a411710a6112a67116f0b/application/pdf/HX Effects 3.0 Owner's Manual - Rev C - English .pdf

 

Also available in French, German and Japanese. Pages 30 - 33 covers Snapshots, including, using, editing, and naming and colouring them.

 

Here’s a walk through video:

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

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So if I understand this.  

  - Hitting any one stomp will disable the others.  To me this means I can never have more than one of these activated at a given time.

 -  Hitting one that is on will disable it.  Which if taken with the first rule, would mean if I hit the one that is on, they are now all off.

 

If this is true, then you can do this in 4 snaphots.

 

First Snapshot - Have Crunch on, OD bypassed, and Distortion Bypassed.  Name snapshot Crunch.  You CAN set the LED color on snapshots and set the LED Strip text.  How you do it depends on if you are using HX Edit or doing it directly via the Helix controls.  But in HX Edit this is done in command center.

Second Snapshot - Have Crunch bypassed, OD on, Distortion Bypassed.  Name snapshot OD.  Assign LED color and Text as you wish.

Third Snapshot - Have Crunch bypassed, OD bypassed, Distortion on.  Name Snapshot Distortion.  Assign LED Color and Text as you wish

Fourth Snaphot - All bypassed.  Name snapshot OFF.  Assign LED color and Text.

 

One quirk with the Helix when using command center to assign snapshots to footswitches is you need to assign ALL the footswitch assignments under EACH snapshop.  So in Snapshot one, you need to assign say, Snapshot one to be on FootSwitch 8, Snapshot 2 on FS9, Snapshot 3 on FS10, and Snapshot 4 on FS 11, Then in command center you'd select snapshot 2, and do the same thing, so under snapshot 2, you assign FS8 to have snapshot1, FS9 has snapshot 2, FS10 has Snapshot 3, and FS11 Snapshot 4.  Then in command center select snapshot 3 and repeat, then snapshot 4 and repeat.  If you don't do this.  Let's say you only assign the Foot switches under snapshot 1, well, the second you hit the footswitch for snapshot 2 or 3 or 4, you're no longer under snapshot 1 and if you haven't defined the footswitch assignments under snapshot 2,3, or 4, those FS could be assigned to anything.

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I'd actually spent days prior to posting (and since) but it's easy to miss obscure preferences and not understand how everything fits together (and therefore, what to look-up in the manual). 

 

If you are new, ignore the comments above. You might think that emulating basic flip/flopping is so simple that you can work in Stomp Mode but you can't. You'll have to fully understand Snapshots, Command Centre, a couple of obscure preferences and look at firmware release notes. This is obvious to experienced users but it wasn't to me.

 

FLOP/FLOPPING IN STOMP MODE...

  • Set the 'Snapshot Reselect' preference to 'Toggle' (page 46)
  • Set the 'Snapshot Mode' preference to 'Latch' (page 47)
  • Create, name and colour your snapshots in Snapshot Mode (pages 30-33)
  • Assign the snapshots to switches in Command Centre ('HX Snapshot' page 43)

However, despite the steps above, it seems flop/flopping of effects isn't seamless in Stomp Mode and often doesn't work because...

 

1. AT LEAST ONE SNAPSHOT HAS TO BE ACTIVE AT ANY ONE TIME

This means that you can't press a snapshot to disable it. I thought I could set a 'base' snapshot but this uses another switch (precious on the HX FX) and it's not obvious you can control which snapshot is the 'base'.

 

In my experience, it seems to return to the last snapshot used. This will be obvious to experts but is overly complex if you're new and trying to setup basic flip/flopping.

 

2. UPDATE 3.15 SEEMS TO WORK DIFFERENTLY

Snapshots assigned to switches after update 3.15 seem to work differently now. This change (see 'Per-Snapshot Command Center > HX Snpsht Values' here: https://bit.ly/3KS5IQH) creates a weird situation where Snapshots assigned to switches seem to default to Next after pressing - at least this is what happens on my HX FX.


At first, Stomp Mode looks correct - snapshots are assigned to the bottom row of switches...
 

STOMP-MODE.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxtqftgje4pwote/STOMP-MODE.jpg?dl=0

 

But after hitting a Snapshot, all 3 switches change which is confusing (especially when playing live)...

 

STOMP-MODE-315.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4cuawkcn3lrqi44/STOMP-MODE-315.jpg?dl=0

 

It's incredibly confusing when you're new and I don't understand threads talking about it, like this one: https://bit.ly/3x35WPh . I've wasted another day erasing all settings, restoring and repeatedly creating everything from scratch. This doesn't seem simple and certainly isn't laziness.

 

At first I thought I might've inadvertently set a function on release but no. I've also tried a suggestion which is to only use Snapshots 2-4 and not Snapshot 1. But this is how things were setup in the screenshot above and it doesn't work (for me). Again, experts may understand what's going on here but it's needlessly complex to get something so basic IMHO.

 

3. IT'S NOT SIMPLE

I've since found feature requests (like this one: https://line6.ideascale.com/c/idea/779072 ), further suggesting this is overly complex to setup, or isn't possible in the way a mechanical looper that has this feature might work.

 

If I'm missing something obvious, it's not because I'm a lazy idiot - I've spent hours each day over the past week trying to understand this. 

 

Therefore, a pointer in the right direction would be much appreciated. But if you just want to contribute nothing and act like a douche ( @PierM ) don't bother posting.

 

And if you're new to Helix, you're not an idiot.

 

 

 

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'But after hitting a Snapshot, all 3 switches change which is confusing (especially when playing live)...'

 

This is probably what I was talking about in my previous post.  You need to make the SAME footswitch assignments under EACH snapshot that will have a footswitch assignment.  What is happening is when you first go into Command Center, snapshot one is selected by default, so while under that, if you assign 'Crunch', 'OD', and 'Distortion' to the Footswitches like in your photo, those assignments ONLY exist when you are using snapshot one.  As soon as you hit 'OD' which lets say is 'Snapshot 2', the other footswitches will change to a random value because you haven't actually defined how snapshots should mapped under snapshot 2.  You only defined it under snapshot 1, but once you hit the OD or DIST snapshot, you're no longer using snapshot one.  I wish line 6 would add a checkbox in command center that says something like 'apply to all snapshots' so you could tell the helix this footswitch assignment should be applied to all snapshots, but for right now, you need to manually define each assignment under each snapshot you plan on using.

 

I've had my Helix for about 2 1/2 years now.  By and large this forum has been very friendly and helpful..  Just ignore the RTFM posts, they don't reflect the majority of people that contribute here.   The manual while good, I find was written to better serve people who have used the product for some time as opposed to being a 'teaching how to use Helix' type manual.  I feel it's more of a reference manual than true 'user's guide'.

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On 9/7/2022 at 8:12 PM, cmscss said:

It's incredibly confusing when you're new


Hi,

 

Although, I fully understand your frustration with this, you should also consider this - there is not a single user In here who didn’t start with a blank slate when it came figuring out any of this Helix stuff.

 

In my earlier reply, I said you wouldn’t like it - and it seems I was right.

 

A simple story for you.

 

Three Buddhist monks on a mountain top were looking down at the prayer flags fluttering on the temple towers.


The acolyte said, “Look -the flags are moving”.

 

His teacher said, “No - the wind is moving.
 

The Master turned to the other two, and said, “Ah, the mind is moving.”

 

Stick with it Grasshopper.
 

We can show you stuff, but cannot make you understand.

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one more thing....

'I thought I could set a 'base' snapshot but this uses another switch (precious on the HX FX) and it's not obvious you can control which snapshot is the 'base'

 

You may not be conceptualizing what snapshots actually are.  I would not think of snapshots as having one as a 'base'.  Think of them more as setting/recalling a specific tone.

When I first got my Helix it took me a couple days to properly conceptualize the terms the Helix uses to what they actually mean and do.

In the helix (I say helix, but it applies to HX FX) PRESET is the ENTIRE patch.  So let s just say your (preset) patch is:

 

Compressor->Distortion Pedal->>Amp->Cab->Delay->Reverb

 

That makes up preset.  When you select a preset, the Helix clears the currently loaded preset out from memory and then loads all the devices of the new preset into memory.  This is why you can't switch presets cleanly while playing, there will always be a gap or artifact since the helix needs to clear the old preset out of memory and then load the new one, and it can't do this instantly.

 

Now after you select a preset you can run the HX in one of three main modes (PRESET. STOMP, SNAPSHOT).  PRESET mode just lets you cycle through all your presets and select one.  STOMP mode lets you manage (turn on/off) blocks in a given preset (Pedals, amps, cabs, etc) by assigning them to a foot switch.  This is great if you have a base tone and want to toggle blocks on or off while playing.  So lets say in the tone above, I have it dialed in to crunch tone when the Distortion pedal is off.  In stomp mode if I want to go to a more distorted tone, I just hit the footswitch assigned to the Distortion block. Or I can add a delay when I want by assigning the delay block to a swatch.   If I set the switch as 'latching', it will act as a toggle.  Turning the distortion on if it's off, and off if it's on.  That's what stomp mode is meant for.  It's not really meant to change multiple things at once.  It just emulates having the actual individual stomp boxes in front of you.

 

Snapshot mode is a bit different.  What a snapshot does it allow you to control any parameter settings of any or all the blocks in the currently loaded preset.  So given the example above again.  I can tell the FX, I want the drive parameter of the amp block controlled by snapshots.  I want the distortion block bypassed. I want the delay on, and I want the feedback setting for the delay controlled by snapshots.  I set to the delay feedback to 30%, and I also want the mix of the delay controlled by snapshots and set to 35%.  How do you do this?  in HX edit on the helix you would right click next to the parameter name and select 'Snapshot controller'.  This tells the Helix that the value I set this parameter should be saved under the current snaphot.  Not sure if that is how you do it on an HX FX, but the point is, you tell the HX that THIS parameter will be controlled by snapshots.  You set as many parameters as you want that way across any or all of the blocks in your preset, and then save.  So I would save the above patch while under snapshot 1, and then rename my snapshot 'Clean Delay'

 

Then I switch to snapshot 2  This will be my crunch snapshot.

While the HX is under snapshot 2, I turn on the OD pedal block.  I set the drive on the OD pedal to be controlled by snapshots, and set 20%.  I want less delay on my crunch tone, so I set the mix to 20% and feedback to 25% (since I had these set to be controlled by snapshots under step one, they are still set to be controlled by snapshots, I'm just changing the values they will be when I select snapshot 2 while playing).  I push the drive on the amp up a bit until I get the crunch tone I want.  Then I save under and rename snapshot 2 to 'crunch'.  The important thing to remember here is if I tell a parameter to be controlled by snapshot, then it the HX will recall that parameter setting when I select that snapshot when playing.  If I change a parameter but DON'T tell the HX to have that parameter controlled by snapshots, then that parameter change is global.  That parameter will not change between snapshots, because I haven't told the HX to have that parameter controlled by snapshots 

 

Then I switch so that I'm under snapshot 3 on the HX.  I want this to be straight distortion, no delay, but maybe a bit of reverb.

I set the OD drive to 60%, maybe I also want to change the tone a bit too for this snapshot so it sits better in the mix with the distortion, so under the Amp block I assign treble and mid controls to the snapshot controller and raise them by 1 or 2 each.  I bypass the delay pedal.  I tell the verb mix to be controlled by snapshots and set that 40%.  I save and then rename this snapshot distortion.

 

Finally, I want a lead tone.

On the Amp block, I set the 'Channel Volume' to be controlled by snapshots, and raise it a few ticks so my lead tone is a few decibels louder.  than the others.  I set my delay time to be controlled by the snapshot controller and set it to 320ms.  I set the delay mix to 45 and feedback to 40.  I save it and then rename the snapshot to 'Lead'

 

In command center, FOR EACH SNAPSHOT, I assign Clean to FS1, Crunch to FS2, Dist to FS3, and Lead to FS4.

 

Now when I play I can freely change between these 4 tones with no gap or artifacts in the sound.  why?  Because the Helix doesn't need to load or remove anything from memory, all the devices for the preset are already loaded, all the snapshot does is recall the parameter snapshot specific parameters settings I set on the devices.   The helix can do this damn near instantly.

 

Snapshots generally are the way to go.  They can be very powerful, but it took me a few days to get my head around how to do them properly.  The HElix like any high-end device has it's shares of quirks.  But hopefully this will get you going in the right direction.

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this is confusing and well timed, as I just started playing with the command center.  However, I'm using the floor, so there may be differences, but probably not many.

I also have clean, crunch, and lead snapshots.   This may be different than what you were thinking, but what if you set it up so that you could press one button and switch through the three snapshots?  I recently did that and it frees up the other buttons for stomps or whatever.  

 

check out this post,  

 

 

he calls it stackable snapshots.  He does a great job of explaining this and how to do it. 

snapshot 1 - button 1 :  press = snapshot 2(Crunch),  release = none

snapshot 2 - button 1 = snapshot 3(Lead), release = none

snapshot 3 - button 1 = snapshot 1(Clean), release = none

 

this creates the circular reference that lets you cycle through your snapshots.  

 

I originally did this, however I changed to just cycle through Crunch and Lead snapshots on button 1.  On button 3, I have the button assigned to the drive and volume controls of my amp.  one click takes it to clean and clicking again beefs it up.  this works best for me.

 

I know this isn't quite what you were asking, but I hope it helps.... the video helped me greatly!

 

Good luck and be sure to let us know how this ends! (or at least the next step, since helix tweaking never ends! :) )

 

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oh, and btw, during all of this I realized that all I really need is a way to boost my signal when in snapshot mode.  It would be great if the command center would let you replace a snapshot with a stomp.... or some other way of just adding 3db when I want it.

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On 9/8/2022 at 9:53 AM, datacommando said:

In my earlier reply, I said you wouldn’t like it - and it seems I was right.

 

 

Incase I wasn't clear, RTM wasn't the comment I didn't like, it was the comment from PierM that I was lazy and the others that chimed in via Emoji.

 

I'm not lazy, I just didn't fully understand the terminology and how stuff fits together. Manuals are great at explaining individual features but they often don't contain the full 'recipe' for achieving certain outcomes. 

 

Anyway, I have plenty to digest when I get home, so thanks to all who've contributed - very much appreciated. Truly.

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On 9/8/2022 at 9:11 AM, cglaser68 said:

You need to make the SAME footswitch assignments under EACH snapshot that will have a footswitch assignment. 

What is happening is when you first go into Command Center, snapshot one is selected by default... those assignments ONLY exist when you are using snapshot one. 

 

OK! I now understand. And agreed, it's convoluted (and tedious). Initially, when you said... 'assign ALL the footswitch assignments under EACH snapshot' I was trying to find this under each snapshot so got confused.

 

For my future reference, and for anyone struggling with this, these are the specific steps to setup flip/flopping using Snapshots when in Stomp Mode (as of v3.15)

 

SET PREFERENCES & CREATE SNAPSHOTS

  1. Set the 'Snapshot Reselect' preference to 'Toggle' (page 46)
  2. Set the 'Snapshot Mode' preference to 'Latch' (page 47)
  3. Create, name and colour your snapshots in Snapshot Mode (pages 30-33)
  4. I created 4x snapshots: Clean, Crunch, OD and Distortion

 

ASSIGN SNAPSHOTS TO SWITCHES

  1. Go to Preset mode
  2. Hit Bank Up/Down simultaneously (do it quickly or the 'Swap Footswitches' function will get initiated instead)
  3. Press Snapshot 1
  4. Press the hamburger menu and choose 'Command Center'
  5. I selected FS1 
  6. Turn small knob 1 to choose 'Snapshot' under 'Command'
  7. Turn small knob 3 to choose the Snapshot, I chose Snapshot 1
  8. Rinse and repeat for each Snapshot and switch you want assigned
  9. SAVE! Yes, save the assignments before going back (I lost all assignments)
  10. Hit the MODE switch to go back to Snapshot Mode
  11. Press the Snapshot 2 switch
  12. Press the hamburger menu and choose 'Command Center'
  13. Perform steps 5-11 all over again (exact same assignments, this is the tedious part)
  14. Don't forget to SAVE before exiting
  15. Rinse and repeat for every snapshot you want assigned to a footswitch
  16. Don't forget to SAVE before exiting Command Centre each time (can't say this enough)

 

Now you can switch distortions with one button press, and not have them cascade into each other.

 

@cglaser68 Total life saver! Thank you, much appreciated.

 

REQUEST

Helix needs flip/flop groups so you can setup effects in Stomp Mode, and effortlessly assign any effect to a flip/flop group.

 

Benefits over Snapshots...

  • Enabling one effect, disables all others in the group BUT hitting an effect that's already on, turns it off (Snapshots don't work this way)
  • This saves a Snapshot and a Switch because you don't have to assign a 'Clean' or 'Base' Snapshot (switches are precious people!)
  • Cut down on endless programming and preferences for something so simple (basic GigRig switchers have this & I have a Cusack unit with it)
  • Reserve snapshots for changing effects parameters, instead of simply turning effects on/off
  • And because it's software, have multiple groups so you could have multiple distortions, delays and reverbs on different flip/flop groups

 

Request link...

If you don't gig in Stomp Mode, then you probably don't care but spare a thought for all the people who do - don't downvote just because: https://line6.ideascale.com/c/idea/1051511

 

Also found a similar request (334 votes): https://line6.ideascale.com/c/idea/779072

 

Cheers

 

 

 

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  • cmscss changed the title to [SOLVED] Mimic Flip/Flop Function in Stomp Mode v3.15
On 9/7/2022 at 6:17 PM, PaulTBaker said:

oh, and btw, during all of this I realized that all I really need is a way to boost my signal when in snapshot mode.  It would be great if the command center would let you replace a snapshot with a stomp.... or some other way of just adding 3db when I want it.

 

I agree... I wish I could add even just ONE stomp to the Snapshot screen...

But - here is how I worked my way around the problem you have....

  • Create a midi loop back by connecting the MIDI IN/OUT with a cable. 
  • In Command Center, set the TAP button to toggle the BOOST block.
  • One step on the TAP will toggle the BOOST ON
  • You could toggle it again to turn it off, or if your snaps are set to "discard" you can just reload the snapshot which has the boost off. 
  • NOTE: One press of the TAP will not trigger the actual TAP Tempo... so turning it ON didn't cause any damage.
  • Caveat: When you do need to TAP in a tempo... you will be toggling the BOOST at the same time... make sure you tap 2 or 4 times or the boost will land in the wrong position. While tapping... you will have a bit of a manual tremolo effect happening. 
  • Caveat 2: You need to program this into every snapshot.... it doesn't just carry over. It's a bit mind numbing if you have to do a lot of presets this way. 

I have since moved on to a more intuitive and streamlined approach that works for me... but that did work very well for the year or so I used it. 

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