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Guitar volume knob precieved loudness change - line out vs. mic'ed up Amp/Cab


wooot
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Hi,

 

i'm somewhat new when it comes to playing guitar live (I was a drummer for most of my life and just played guitar at home). I have an HX Stomp and a Boss Katana but use the Stomp for live. 

 

I recently asked myself the following: 

 

When playing guitar, many people use the volume knob frequently. Partly to play less loud, but partly to get another tone (less gain). With the HX Stomp through an FRFR or through Mixer and PA I noticed that the Volume (and i mean the precieved volume from the PA) falls down so quickly (kind of linear) when using the volume knob on the guitar that I'm hesitant to use it live. 

 

I want to know whether the (for the audience noticable) difference in loudness when using the guitars volume knopb is less with an amp -> cab -> mic -> mixer constellation. I realize that from a certain point it is not. Volume at 0 = no signal. But I imagine that vor the positions between 10-5 the change in loudness that is recieved by the audience is less (not linear) because of the Mic. 

 

Might that be true? IF so: are there any tips when it comes to using modelers live? We usually dont have a sound guy. So there is no one who could adjust the volume of a channel while we are playing. 

 

Kind regards

wooot

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Sounds like you have a bad linear taper pot for volume (or a bad audio taper pot, or a mix with modern wiring which doesnt help), which for their construction they let bleed the signal to ground linearly (resistance ramps up too quickly for our volume perception), while human sound pressure perception works better in Log. Linear are good for tone pots, annoying for volume pots, especially for people playing live at high volumes.

 

You can improve that aspect wiring a good 250k CTS audio taper for volume, and wiring volume, caps and tone pots with '50 wiring.

 

* Audio Taper = LOG

 

D2-F7-DE2-F-E70-B-4-F89-A77-D-0-E33-B75-

 

 

 

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This is where compression is can be your friend.

 

Either in the form of amp compression through working the output tubes (real or virtual) harder so the pre-tubes get over driven by the guitar changing grittiness and tone whilst the output tubes help maintain perceived volume.

 

Or using a compression tool before outputs (post the amp). My preference is the rochester comp using the knee and mix to allow unprocessed signal through along with processed to 'smooth' the volume differential.

 

That said, when guitarists use the guitar volume pot, it is also often in combo with dynamic changes in the material so the volume change is less noticable in the mix, and typically set up the max volume/tone to sit best with solos.

 

But there are no hard and fast rules.

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For some odd reason guitar players seem to be obsessed with their volume levels with not much regard for how they actually sit in the mix with the other instruments.  I rarely find the need for adjusting my volume knob on my guitar unless I really want to accomplish a tone change such as cleaning up an overdriven sound.  Even then I often can often accomplish what I want by changing my right hand technique.  What I do get obsessed with is how I sit in the mix with the other instruments and voices.  That's where I spend most of my time when practicing and preparing for a gig.  That's why I always practice going through a mixer so I can not only listen to my levels but watch them on a signal meter and I ALWAYS play against a backing track.  Playing music (especially with stringed instruments) is all about dynamics.  In some phrases the guitar needs to be more prominent than in others.  How you accomplish that varies with technique.

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Not quite sure about the volume knob question.  But I can share some general info.

 

Volume pots are all different, e.g. 250k, 500k.  They all taper differently.  There is also a "treble bleed" mod that also makes a difference. 

 

The way guitar + amp interact is not something that I can say exactly how it works, without looking at your preset.  If you have an obnoxious amount of gain, then turning your volume knob from 10 to 3 will not change the loudness of the signal. 

 

Volume knob to control the loudness, gain:  My approach is to use this old-school method.  All my presets are basically set with the distortion on.  I clean up the sound by turning my volume knob to around 5.  If I have changes from clean/dirty that happen very fast, then I simply add a "volume cut" in my signal chain by using a volume pedal that is set to 7% for example.  This works for me, and that's what I've been doing for the last 8 or so years. 

 

Advantages of my approach are: you are not glued to your pedal board.  You can change the sound from clean to dirty with the turn of your volume knob.  Also you can do volume swells to go from clean to distorted. 

 

You need to set up your preset with your guitar in mind.  I have a Gibson Les Paul for example, and on that guitar the signal is very very hot.  So the sound doesn't really clean up: it just goes from loud to dead. 

 

Here's a little video I made:

 

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