johnnyvlee Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Running into an issue where snapshots seem not to work, but I have tested it on two Helix units and it acts the same on both. If memory serves I believe I created this patch by downloading and then modifying vmoncebaiz's "Say It Ain't So" patch (uploaded end of 2015). I have three snapshots: Clean, Distortion, and Lead. I have gigged with this patch and it is a staple in my cover band. Suddenly the snapshots don't work right. When I select the patch it goes to snapshot 1 (clean). But when I select any of the other 2 snapshots it just stays in clean mode now. I assume this is something to do with a system update for Helix. You know how it gives you that "rebuilding presets" message. I thought that only should happen once after a system update, but I am seeing it more than once. Not sure what circumstances trigger that. The other wildcard on this patch is it has a mixer node. I have not really used those myself so I am less familiar with when and why and how (see image). Anyone have any brilliant suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Maybe attach the actual preset? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 It's my understanding that the "rebuilding presets" occurs whenever it sees a preset that's not from the current firmware version. I think that the rebuilding action can lead to corrupted or just incorrect older patches. Not always. Just some of the time. It works most of the time but i've had to rebuild older patches before. I would rebuld the patch from scratch, using the parameters in the one you have now. It should at least give you the patch you're looking for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 2:03 PM, johnnyvlee said: ... I assume this is something to do with a system update for Helix. You know how it gives you that "rebuilding presets" message. I thought that only should happen once after a system update, but I am seeing it more than once. Not sure what circumstances trigger that. ... You're right that any preset requires only one rebuild. If the same preset(s) are being rebuilt every time the device starts up that means the preset(s) are corrupt. Take careful note of the preset numbers that are being repeatedly rebuilt. You can determine the offending preset(s) - setlist and preset - by dividing the displayed number by 128 (#presets in Setlist). Then divide the remainder by 4 (#presets in Bank). No remainder indicates preset D in the given Bank. A remainder between 1 and 3 indicates preset A to C in the next Bank. For instance if the rebuild display shows Preset 384 that indicates Setlist #4, Bank 8, Preset D. (Calculation: 384/12=3 with remainder 32 meaning 32 presets into Setlist 4; then 32/4 =8 with remainder 0 meaning last preset D in Bank 8). Preset #385 would be the next preset; 9A in the same setlist. Delete any problematic preset(s) and restart until no rebuild occurs. Caveat: I believe Helix uses both the 000-127 and 1-128 numbering systems in different contexts. The Display preference of 000-127 is used within Setlists as specified in Global Settings, while I THINK the 1-1024 is used in preset rebuilding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvlee Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 2:16 PM, rd2rk said: Maybe attach the actual preset? Good suggestion! Here is from 10/5 backup Preset031-Say It Ain't So.hlx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd2rk Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I don't know the intent of the designer, or what mods you made. Nor do I know what caused the problem, but the Snapshot Routings of the A/B Split Block seem to have been lost. In Snapshot CLEAN the A/B split sends the signal to path 1A with a Clean amp then on to Path 2A where there is no further processing. It Snapshot DISTORTION it sends the signal to Path 1B where nothing happens, then the signal goes to Path 2B where there's a High Gain amp and other stuff. Path 2B ends with a GAIN Block which appears to be controlled by Snapshot LEAD. However, in the DISTORTION SS it's set to +5db, and in the LEAD SS it's set to +6db, not a heck of a lot of difference. IDK whether that got changed or that was the intent. The two Paths are then combined at the Mixer Block before the Output Block. I've re-saved the Snapshots with (what I think is) the correct routing. You'll need to check that GAIN Block and see if anything else was lost. Say It Ain't So2.hlx 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvlee Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 4:24 PM, rd2rk said: I don't know the intent of the designer, or what mods you made. Nor do I know what caused the problem, but the Snapshot Routings of the A/B Split Block seem to have been lost. In Snapshot CLEAN the A/B split sends the signal to path 1A with a Clean amp then on to Path 2A where there is no further processing. It Snapshot DISTORTION it sends the signal to Path 1B where nothing happens, then the signal goes to Path 2B where there's a High Gain amp and other stuff. Path 2B ends with a GAIN Block which appears to be controlled by Snapshot LEAD. However, in the DISTORTION SS it's set to +5db, and in the LEAD SS it's set to +6db, not a heck of a lot of difference. IDK whether that got changed or that was the intent. The two Paths are then combined at the Mixer Block before the Output Block. I've re-saved the Snapshots with (what I think is) the correct routing. You'll need to check that GAIN Block and see if anything else was lost. Say It Ain't So2.hlx 22.49 kB · 0 downloads Thanks I will have a look. Also I might download the original and see if it still works in the new Helix firmware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvlee Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 4:34 PM, johnnyvlee said: I might download the original and see if it still works in the new Helix firmware. Looks like the original didn't have snapshots. I don't remember what all I did to get the version I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvlee Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 4:24 PM, rd2rk said: I don't know the intent of the designer, or what mods you made. Nor do I know what caused the problem, but the Snapshot Routings of the A/B Split Block seem to have been lost. In Snapshot CLEAN the A/B split sends the signal to path 1A with a Clean amp then on to Path 2A where there is no further processing. It Snapshot DISTORTION it sends the signal to Path 1B where nothing happens, then the signal goes to Path 2B where there's a High Gain amp and other stuff. Path 2B ends with a GAIN Block which appears to be controlled by Snapshot LEAD. However, in the DISTORTION SS it's set to +5db, and in the LEAD SS it's set to +6db, not a heck of a lot of difference. IDK whether that got changed or that was the intent. The two Paths are then combined at the Mixer Block before the Output Block. I've re-saved the Snapshots with (what I think is) the correct routing. You'll need to check that GAIN Block and see if anything else was lost. Say It Ain't So2.hlx 22.49 kB · 0 downloads I think you nailed it. Thanks for that. Now that I look at the split block I see it changing in the snapshot and I seem to remember that confusing me the first time I tried to figure out this patch. Hadn't seen that done before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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