Powercab 112 Plus & Helix question or two

[Ellep]

HI all,

 

I am planning on adding a Powercab to my Helix and am thinking about the Line 6 Powercab 112 Plus for smaller gigs and adding a second Line 6 Powercab 112 Plus for stereo in larger venues. How are the stereo programs within Helix treated when running mono ? Are they summed to the left output, or in the case of the digital connection to the power cab are L&R summed to mono by the cab (if only using one mono cab ?. Or is just left side only Helix effects etc ? I am also considering Powercab 2@12 plus as it might be better financial decision despite the extra weight and size. Any tips appreciated ! Thanks Michelle 

[rd2rk]

If you want super wide stereo, get two 112's. The faux stereo in the PC212 (what I have) sounds surprisingly wide, but it's not the same as two amps 12 feet apart panned L/R.

 

Are you planning on using L6 Link? If so, I'm not sure where the summing takes place, but it really doesn't matter.

If you're using an XLR audio cable to a single PC you'll take it from the Helix L/Mono Out to the Powercab.

 

Some things to keep in mind - stereo presets sometimes sound strange when summed to mono. If you're starting with a single PC create your presets in mono.

When you add your second PC you can create a new setlist consisting of your mono presets rebuilt in stereo.

 

When using stereo on stage, assuming one on each side, the audience on the left will be hearing a different signal than the audience on the right, and 10 people in the audience who happen to be standing in the stereo "sweet spot" will hear it the way you want it to be heard. This is part of the reason that most FOH techs won't want your stereo signal, because they know this. 

[Ellep]

HI ! yes would like to use L6 Link. In reality I tend to use either an a/b between to amps (Vox, and Fender Deluxe) or some stereo reverb delay. A super wide image is not necessary nor really practical live as you suggest. How do you find the 2@12 ? Are you happy with it ?

[rd2rk]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:48 PM, Ellep said:

HI ! yes would like to use L6 Link. In reality I tend to use either an a/b between to amps (Vox, and Fender Deluxe) or some stereo reverb delay. A super wide image is not necessary nor really practical live as you suggest. How do you find the 2@12 ? Are you happy with it ?

 

I'm VERY happy with it with this caveat.

 

L6 link AUDIO is great. L6 link with Helix Preset Control is undependable.

 

There's lengthy threads on the subject over at the TGP D&M Forum if you want the details.

I get around that by using MIDI for control of the Powercab.

Totally dependable and really not that tough to do.

 

There's a whole crew of us over there who've been trying everything we can think of to get L6 to do an Update and fix the problems. I'm HOPING that they've held off on the update because they've been so busy with the Helix updates, and because they've been waiting for the new cab tech to prove itself as they plan to somehow incorporate it into the Powercabs. The fact that they absolutely refuse to respond in any way to anything concerning the Powercabs does not bode well considering how many L6 people are all over that forum answering questions about Helix.

 

Hope springs eternal...

 

Don't let that deter you from getting a PC212.

I recommend it over the PC112 (I had one) not only for the Stereo (real fun if you like to fool around with ambient sounds) but because just like a regular 212 guitar cab sounds bigger and has more bottom than a 112, the PC212 sounds MUCH better than the PC112, even in mono.

Even if they never fix the emulations and the L6 link problems, I don't regret the purchase.

[amsdenj]

I have a Powercab112+ that I use most of the time, and a Powercab 212 that gets occasional use. The 212 stereo isn't that useful live for me. The audience won't notice it, and I'm using IEMs which are a stereo mix regardless of which Powercab I use. The 112+ just seems to hit the sweet spot in terms of weight and size. The 212 is perhaps a bit too big for most clubs and doesn't match the rest of the band that well.

 

Re: the Powercab 212 bug: when using Line6 Link and controlling Powercab 212 from Helix, The Mode and Voicing settings only control the left speaker,  not both the left and right. The work around is to use MIDI and turn off Line6 Link Powercab control. It's an extra cable to setup, and makes the patches a bit more complicated, but is necessary for Powercab 212. I don't know for sure, but the same problem might occur using Line6 Link with two Powercab 112+'s in stereo. Depends on whether the bug is in Powercab 212 or in the Line6 Link protocol implementation.

 

Powercab112+ and Helix with Line6 Link is a really great guitar setup. I get best results using Flat Mode and LF Raw Voicing with no cab block or IR in Helix. That's basically a powered guitar speaker. The Eminence speaker in Powercab112+ seems to be a pretty nice guitar speaker. This is convenient, easy to setup, easy to transport, reliable, simple and flexible - with no compromises in tone. You can get different tones using Flat Mode and FRFR Voicing with cab blocks or IRs in Helix. But you'll never be able to make a 12" speaker in a small cabinet sound and feel like a 4x12 no matter how good the model might be. To me, LF Raw just sounds more natural and doesn't have the subtle high-end fizz caused by the tweeter in the FRFR voicing. But it's great to have the flexibility.

 

 

 

[rd2rk]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:22 AM, amsdenj said:

To me, LF Raw just sounds more natural and doesn't have the subtle high-end fizz caused by the tweeter in the FRFR voicing. But it's great to have the flexibility.

 

I would just add to this that using MIDI you can set the level of the HF Driver (tweeter) to taste, per preset. This is one thing that you can't do over L6 Link.

[Ellep]

HI all thanks for your comments. I think in my situation, I would bypass the Helix IR's on every preset and have the 2@12 cab set only to 2@12 blue bell for everything. Certainly live (pre Helix) I would only ever use 2 real @ Ac30's, or 1 ac30 and 1 fender deluxe (with the blue bell speaker) and pedals. So I would quite happy with a set and forget speaker scenario and rely on the Helix for pedal and some amp tweaks. Using in this way could I dispense with the midi cable and get the stereo functionality of the 2@12 Power Cab ? 

[Ellep]

 

I have a Powercab112+ that I use most of the time, and a Powercab 212 that gets occasional use. The 212 stereo isn't that useful live for me. The audience won't notice it, and I'm using IEMs which are a stereo mix regardless of which Powercab I use. The 112+ just seems to hit the sweet spot in terms of weight and size. The 212 is perhaps a bit too big for most clubs and doesn't match the rest of the band that well.

 

 

HI, how did you find the 1@12 power cab summing your stereo presets to mono ? 

[Ellep]

Sorry everyone, another question...... For any effects the are post amp and speakers (say some verbs and delay) I presume if you want to keep them that way live, you would run the Powercab as an FR and use the DI's in the back of the cab to PA ?  

[amsdenj]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:13 AM, Ellep said:

 

I have a Powercab112+ that I use most of the time, and a Powercab 212 that gets occasional use. The 212 stereo isn't that useful live for me. The audience won't notice it, and I'm using IEMs which are a stereo mix regardless of which Powercab I use. The 112+ just seems to hit the sweet spot in terms of weight and size. The 212 is perhaps a bit too big for most clubs and doesn't match the rest of the band that well.

 

 

HI, how did you find the 1@12 power cab summing your stereo presets to mono ? 

When using Helix with Powercab112+, I use Line6 link and let it do the conversion to mono in the Powercab. For Quad Cortex, I run left and right outputs 3&4 into Powercab112+ inputs 1&2 using TRS cables, and again let Powercab do the summing to mono. On both devices I did make sure that summing to mono didn't do bad things to the patch. That did result in changing the Width parameter on some stereo blocks in Quad Cortex. Outputs 1&2 on Helix and Quad Cortex go into the PA and feed my IEM mix which is full stereo, making the IEM mix more natural sounding.

 

[eggwheat]

I used 2 separate combo amps for years in stereo. I'm very pro the 212 after using one. Its got the widest stereo image of any 2x12 I have ever heard. And as far as weight and size, the 212 is incredibly light for a 2x12 combo and only 5kg more than the 112.

 

Consider these figures: 

212: 712 x 305 x 537  21kg

112: 567 x 305 x 462  16kg (now times that by 2 for stereo)

 

For reference a 2x12 peavey stereo chorus amp or Fender twin is about 30kg. The line 6 212 is about the same weight as a 2x10 combo.