Why can I only access 8-10 stomp boxes within a preset?

[kaffekask]

Hi,

 

I have the Helix Floor Unit. This might be a stupid question but I really can’t figure this one out and it is driving me nuts.

 

Is it only possible to access 10 stomp boxes within a preset?

 

I have built a signal chain with 24 stomp box effects. I simply just want to toggle between these, just like having a pedalboard with 24 individual pedals. 

 

I know that footswitch #6 has to be EDIT and footswitch #12 has to be TAP. And footswitch #1 and #7 is UP and DOWN. Fine, that leaves me 8 footswitches in the middle for effects. If I want to add another 8 + 8 effects for a total of 24, how do I toggle between effects 1-8 , 9-16 and 17-24? The UP and DOWN only toggles between snapshots, presets and "bank" (which just toggles between presets again on my unit).

 

/Pete

[silverhead]

On 11/26/2022 at 6:06 AM, kaffekask said:

 

…

Is it only possible to access 10 stomp boxes within a preset?

…

Yes, you can only have independent control of the bypass state of 10 stomps in any preset. Why? By design. You could post your request to increase that number to Ideascale.

 

You can assign bypass control of multiple stomps to the same footswitch so you can turn on/off several stomps using a single foot tap. This can be done using direct footswitch assignments or by using Snapshots.

[SaschaFranck]

I would've absolutely loved a second page of stomp assignments. Was constantly running out of them with the Floor. Now that I downscaled to a Stomp it's not that much of an issue anymore (due to it's vastly reduced function on my board), but I wouldn't mind, though.

 

Main reason for me was that stomp assignments are by far the fastest way to get to a block and edit it, so ideally I want pretty much everything assigned to a switch, even if I don't actually switch things.

[datacommando]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:06 AM, kaffekask said:

I have built a signal chain with 24 stomp box effects. I simply just want to toggle between these, just like having a pedalboard with 24 individual pedals. 

That is one hell of a set up that would require the use of all 24 FX simultaneously. If you had a real world pedal board comprising 24 individual pedal, that would lead to an enormous amount of tap dancing.

 

There maybe certain FX units that you would generally leave on all the time - for example, room reverb, that would be one less switch to toggle. Also, realistically, you would probably only want to turn on a few of that couple of dozen stomp boxes in specific groups of FX for an given scenario, intro, verse, chorus etc., possibly by using some sort of main controller device.

 

Well, the Helix is that controller - you simply need to assign things that need to change on any of those effects blocks by using  Snapshots. Each snapshots can manage up to 8 different parameters at once, and as you can have up to 8 Snapshots available in any preset, that gives you the option to change 64 parameters back and forth across the available footswitches.

 

You just need to get your head round what you want to achieve with those 24 effects and plan accordingly.

 

Check out the Helix 3.0 Owner’s Manual for info on Snapshots on page 45.

 

https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a3f041b611d61cac763b/application/pdf/Helix 3.0 Owner's Manual - Rev F - English .pdf

 

Here’s a video explaining the Snapshots (presets within a preset) function.

 

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

 

[kaffekask]

Okay, hmm. I understand that it is by design by the team at Line6, but... why? It seems kind of strange to sell an expensive effects unit with hundreds of effects and only let you get on/off control of 10 effects. 

 

So I can assign 11 effects to be turned on all at once by the press off one single footswitch, but I can't have 11 effects to choose from and turn them on by myself? I can only have a selection of 10? 

 

Why did Line 6 not include a bank up/bank down for a second/third page of effects?

[DunedinDragon]

This is where modelers tend to have a different working environment than a traditional pedalboard.  The main reason for limitations is to ensure low latency when working with a modeler.  The more things loaded in a signal chain, the more that has to be processed and the higher the likelihood that latency will become a noticeable issue.

For that reason many of us choose to divide our setups into different presets, often by song for example, which is essentially what Bank Up and Bank Down accomplish.  You have more than enough presets to allow you to do such things and I doubt seriously you're going to need more than 8 stomps in the course of a song.  The advantage to such an arrangement is that over the last 7 years I've never run into any limitations in what I can include in any of my presets even if I use very demanding things like some of the polyphonic effects.  This also makes sense in that one clear advantage of a modeler is being able to customize the amp/cab/mic/mic positions for different types of songs in the same way as one would do when working in a studio environment, which is virtually impossible in a non-modeling live pedalboard arrangement.

The idea of using banks could be useful, but the same limitations would apply as it does for using different presets such as a slight dead space while the preset loads it's signal chain.  If they're loaded into memory and active they will have an impact on latency.

[kaffekask]

On 11/26/2022 at 1:59 PM, datacommando said:

That is one hell of a set up that would require the use of all 24 FX simultaneously. If you had a real world pedal board comprising 24 individual pedal, that would lead to an enormous amount of tap dancing.

 

 

No no, I don't want to use them simultaneously, I just want to have the option to turn any of them on like a pedalboard with individual pedals. 

 

Imagine that I want a pedalboard with this:

 

1. Tubescreamer

2. Metal distortion

3. Fuzz

4. Octave fuzz

5. Delay 1

6. Delay 2

7. Delay 3

8. Delay 4

9. Reverb 1

10. Reverb 2

11. Uni-Vibe

12. Rotary

13. Chorus

14. Phaser

15. Tremolo

16. Pitch 1 octave up

17. Pitch 1 octave down

18. Harmony 3rd

 

I want to be able to turn on/off any effect I like in any order on the fly. So on the Helix this is impossible? I have to choose between 10 effects and that's it? 

 

 

 

[silverhead]

On 11/26/2022 at 8:14 AM, kaffekask said:

..

 

I want to be able to turn on/off any effect I like in any order on the fly. So on the Helix this is impossible? I have to choose between 10 effects and that's it? 

…

We fully understand what you want to do. Again, it can’t currently be done. Not the answer you want, obviously, but there it is. I’m not going to debate why it’s designed that way.

[codamedia]

On 11/26/2022 at 7:04 AM, kaffekask said:

Okay, hmm. I understand that it is by design by the team at Line6, but... why? It seems kind of strange to sell an expensive effects unit with hundreds of effects and only let you get on/off control of 10 effects. 

 

So I can assign 11 effects to be turned on all at once by the press off one single footswitch, but I can't have 11 effects to choose from and turn them on by myself? I can only have a selection of 10? 

 

 

IMO... you are approaching he Helix from an old school linear way of working with effects. I'm not dissing it... but that is what you are doing. Approach the Helix from a different mindset... "Presets/Snapshots/Stomps". Between the three of them you can accomplish so much more than 24 individual stomp boxes, with far less tap dancing.... but you need to take the time to figure out how and why. 

 

On 11/26/2022 at 7:04 AM, kaffekask said:

Why did Line 6 not include a bank up/bank down for a second/third page of effects?

 

Open a support ticket and ask them. 

While you are at it... open an ideascale account (line6.ideascale.com).... search for this feature request (I know it's there already)... upvote it. 

[DunedinDragon]

On 11/26/2022 at 8:14 AM, kaffekask said:

 

No no, I don't want to use them simultaneously, I just want to have the option to turn any of them on like a pedalboard with individual pedals. 

 

Imagine that I want a pedalboard with this:

 

1. Tubescreamer

2. Metal distortion

3. Fuzz

4. Octave fuzz

5. Delay 1

6. Delay 2

7. Delay 3

8. Delay 4

9. Reverb 1

10. Reverb 2

11. Uni-Vibe

12. Rotary

13. Chorus

14. Phaser

15. Tremolo

16. Pitch 1 octave up

17. Pitch 1 octave down

18. Harmony 3rd

 

I want to be able to turn on/off any effect I like in any order on the fly. So on the Helix this is impossible? I have to choose between 10 effects and that's it? 

 

 

 

Anything is possible given enough time and money.  But you could certainly pay $5,000 or so for a modeler with enough DSP modeling chips to do that if you'd like.  But price ultimately dictates what you CAN do.  Just like you can't buy an economy car and expect it to perform like a Ferrari.  Those aren't my rules, those are the rules of physics.

[kaffekask]

On 11/26/2022 at 2:21 PM, silverhead said:

We fully understand what you want to do. Again, it can’t currently be done. Not the answer you want, obviously, but there it is. I’m not going to debate why it’s designed that way.

 

I just want to know how to unit works (that's why I ask you guys who know the product better than I do) so your response is very helpful. Thanks. 

 

Doesn't really matter why it is designed that way. I just found it confusing when my memory of playing multi effects has been just banks and banks of effects to choose from.

[kaffekask]

On 11/26/2022 at 2:28 PM, codamedia said:

 

IMO... you are wrapped up in an old school linear approach of working with effects. I'm not dissing it... but that is what you are doing. Approach the Helix from a different mindset... "Presets/Snapshots/Stomps". Between the three of them you can accomplish so much more than 24 individual stomp boxes.... but you need to take the time to figure out how and why. 

 

I love the sounds I get out of the Helix but I obviously didn't know what I was buying. Seems like the Helix is perfect when playing pre-planned gigs with songs, that's not what I am interested in right now.

 

I just wanted a pedalboard for recording/writing. To turn my favourite effects on/off on the fly and combine them in any order I wan't. When doing this in the studio tap dancing is not an issue so I don't need to turn on 5 effects with one footswitch.

 

This might be a really stupid question, but is it possible to connect a Line6 Helix Controller (designed for the Helix Rack) with the Helix Floor? I simply just want more footswitches for effects.

[codamedia]

On 11/26/2022 at 7:51 AM, kaffekask said:

I just wanted a pedalboard for recording/writing. To turn my favourite effects on/off on the fly and combine them in any order I wan't. When doing this in the studio tap dancing is not an issue so I don't need to turn on 5 effects with one footswitch.

 

This might be a really stupid question, but is it possible to connect a Line6 Helix Controller (designed for the Helix Rack) with the Helix Floor? I simply just want more footswitches for effects.

 

No, the Helix Controller can't connect to a Helix floor, however - you are on to something. 

Using MIDI you can enable/disable almost anything on the Helix and much more. A MIDI controller with a lot of footswitches would allow you to do exactly what you want. 

[datacommando]

On 11/26/2022 at 1:51 PM, kaffekask said:

This might be a really stupid question, but is it possible to connect a Line6 Helix Controller (designed for the Helix Rack) with the Helix Floor? I simply just want more footswitches for effects.

 

No, not possible.

 

You could go the MIDI route and use something like the Behringer FCB1010.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

[silverhead]

On 11/26/2022 at 8:51 AM, kaffekask said:

 

...

 

I just wanted a pedalboard for recording/writing. To turn my favourite effects on/off on the fly and combine them in any order I wan't. When doing this in the studio tap dancing is not an issue so I don't need to turn on 5 effects with one footswitch.

 

...

You could try using Helix Native in your studio. Record the dry guitar track, focusing only on your playing without worrying about FX processing.  Then apply the Helix Native plugin to the track during playback. The display will show the entire signal path including all FX blocks. Instead of tapping a footswitch you could click a mouse. Select any stomp block at any time and click it on/off. Seems your hand and mouse could be just as effective as your foot. You can then 'print' the affected track to a new track, including all your real-time processing/preset edits.

[datacommando]

On 11/26/2022 at 1:51 PM, kaffekask said:

Seems like the Helix is perfect when playing pre-planned gigs with songs, that's not what I am interested in right now.

 

Hmm... Well, I'm a studio based guy and I have never found any problems using the Helix as an "ideas box". I have managed to use it as a studio tool on an almost daily basis for the past 6 years and have not found the limitations that you fear it imposes on your creativity.

 

As noted by @silverhead in the post above, you could go down the Helix Native path, and along with a fully processed stereo audio signal, you can record a Direct Injected clean guitar track that you can then run through Native with as many different options as you like. If you turn off the hardware compatibility you are only limited by the processing power of your computer. I do this a lot.

 

I also have to agree with "codamedia", when he says "you are approaching the Helix from an old school linear way of working with effects". I have found that it helps to have an idea of where your composition is heading before you start randomly jumping on switches in the hope of discovering audio Nirvana.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[kaffekask]

On 11/26/2022 at 3:09 PM, codamedia said:

Using MIDI you can enable/disable almost anything on the Helix and much more. A MIDI controller with a lot of footswitches would allow you to do exactly what you want. 

 

Thanks, I will look into this, seem like this is the solution to what I want.

[kaffekask]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:01 PM, datacommando said:

I also have to agree with @codamedia when he says "you are approaching the Helix from an old school linear way of working with effects". I have found that it helps to have an idea of where your composition is heading before you start randomly jumping on switches in the hope of discovering audio Nirvana.

 

I get the feeling that you think the "old school linear way" is a bad approach? You could use the technology from the Helix and fly to the moon, but not all players are going to use all of the features of the Helix. Not all people switch amps between songs and have a problem with tap dancing because of the need of 9 effects on at once.

 

I bought the Helix for the quality of the effects and the sounds. But I still want to keep it extremely simple. I found an amplifier and a cab I like. I'm just gonna use that one, no need for different presets. I found 15-20 effects I love and I'm sticking to them, not gonna touch the other 700 effects again.

 

I simply just want to access those 15-20 different effects in the most basic way possible - pressing a footswitch on and off. I just want the freedom to combine 2-5 effects in the moment (not pre-planned). And I'm still kind of baffled that the Helix can do so many complex things but not what a basic pedalboard with over 10 stomp boxes can do. I can add a midi controller to the Helix and that would solve my problem. But a simple second and third page of stomp boxes to go beyond 10 seems like a no brainer. But yeah, it might be a latency issue.

 

 

[datacommando]

On 11/26/2022 at 3:35 PM, kaffekask said:

I get the feeling that you think the "old school linear way" is a bad approach? You could use the technology from the Helix and fly to the moon, but not all players are going to use all of the features of the Helix. Not all people switch amps between songs and have a problem with tap dancing because of the need of 9 effects on at once.

 

I bought the Helix for the quality of the effects and the sounds. But I still want to keep it extremely simple. I found an amplifier and a cab I like. I'm just gonna use that one, no need for different presets. I found 15-20 effects I love and I'm sticking to them, not gonna touch the other 700 effects again.

 

I simply just want to access those 15-20 different effects in the most basic way possible - pressing a footswitch on and off. I just want the freedom to combine 2-5 effects in the moment (not pre-planned). And I'm still kind of baffled that the Helix can do so many complex things but not what a basic pedalboard with over 10 stomp boxes can do. I can add a midi controller to the Helix and that would solve my problem. But a simple second and third page of stomp boxes to go beyond 10 seems like a no brainer.

 

Well, here's the thing about "old school" - I come from way back in time,  when the only thing between your guitar and amp was a cable. If you wanted distortion and fuzz you turned everything up to max and took a razor blade to the speaker cone. I have discovered that there are now so many easier ways to create the tones I need for any project. I was an early adopter of digital technology and like it, unlike many who have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the twenty first century.

 

You state: "I simply just want to access those 15-20 different effects in the most basic way possible - pressing a footswitch on and off."

 

AFAIK, this is not possible anywhere in the world of multi-effect modelling. The Kemper has 14 assignable footswitches available. Here ya go - a run down of the top do-it-all units available in 2022.. Still baffled? Not possible. Not available. There you have it - done.

 

https://www.guitarworld.com/features/best-multi-effects-pedals-for-guitarists

 

And, I just love this comment: "But a simple second and third page of stomp boxes to go beyond 10 seems like a no brainer." If it's really that simple, why does it not exist?

 

Maybe Line 6 should be advertising for someone with "no brain" to pop along one afternoon and code this for them. Unless all the people with no brain have already been snapped up by other companies in the digital modelling game.

 

[PaulTBaker]

You probably thought of this but you could sort of have what you want, just make them on different presets.  I know is not the same but if you think about it, it could be done.  There are some effects that you would not use together. Put those on a different presets. Your amp could be the same for both presets.   Or several presets.  Put your basic stuff in each preaet then add the odd things.   For example, have one preaet with a trem, the other would be the same but have a chorus.   

[SaschaFranck]

On 11/26/2022 at 2:07 PM, DunedinDragon said:

The more things loaded in a signal chain, the more that has to be processed and the higher the likelihood that latency will become a noticeable issue.

 

Nah, it's all about the CPU power. In the Helix, apart from a few blocks (such as the pitch shifting affairs) nothing is adding latency, so you can stack blocks up until the wazoo. 32 gain blocks in series will cause exactly the same latency as no blocks at all.

 

This issue isn't about CPU limitations or latency at all. As said, I was running into stomp limits all the time with the Floor.

[zappazapper]

Here's my Ideascale post proposing extending the ability to reassign Snapshot definitions on a per-Snapshot basis to be able to do the same with Bypass and Controller Assigns:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/c/idea/1054308/comments/1054470

 

I will also say, however, that I agree with anyone who's expressed the opinion that L6 has provided some very powerful tools to change sounds that you've chosen to not make use of. Honestly I can't think of a multi-fx that had enough footswitches to control everything it does, but at least with multiple switch assignments and snapshots, the Helix is the easiest multi-fx to control that I know of. 

 

But that doesn't mean that there can't be improvements, and the ability to update the firmware allows the unit to improve, and we've been given at least some degree of input on those improvements via the Ideascale website. I encourage you to check it out and post your idea and try to get some support from the community. Sometimes things you want get in eventually. If there was an ability to have multiple pages of stomp controllers, I'm sure I'd use it. In the meantime, there are 8 footswitches that you can assign to control stomps, and if you set Global Settings > Footswitches > Preset Mode Switches to "8 Snapshots", you can press the Mode switch to bring up the Snapshot selection mode, which could theoretically be used to control 8 more stomps if you were careful about how your Snapshot Bypass and Snapshot Control settings were set. At the very least you could use it to select one of eight stomps to be on at any given time. 

 

The point is, there's a lot you can do if you spend some time to learn how the features the Helix DOES have work (I feel confident in griping about what it doesn't do because I know every nook and cranny of what it DOES do). Beyond that, the only way I can think of getting 24 stomp switches is to buy a couple of external MIDI controllers and fight with that whole mess. 

[codamedia]

On 11/26/2022 at 9:35 AM, kaffekask said:

I get the feeling that you think the "old school linear way" is a bad approach? You could use the technology from the Helix and fly to the moon, but not all players are going to use all of the features of the Helix.

 

When snapshots first appeared many users scratched there heads and said "what's wrong with stomps, I'll never use snapshots?". Fast forward just a few years and many (if not most) users will consider it a "must have feature" they "didn't know they needed". IMO, the combination of 8 snapshots and 10 stomps is exponentially more powerful than 24 single stomps. Learning a new trick is often worth the reward. 

 

If you really just want more footswitch options.... a MIDI Controller is your best approach at this time. 

[SaschaFranck]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:08 PM, datacommando said:

AFAIK, this is not possible anywhere in the world of multi-effect modelling.

 

Well, not in an all-in-one-box. Add an external MIDI controller and at least the Helix and the Axe FX would do.

[PierM]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:06 PM, kaffekask said:

I have built a signal chain with 24 stomp box effects. I simply just want to toggle between these, just like having a pedalboard with 24 individual pedals. 

 

I wouldn't hold my breath for L6 adding extra pages of FS (assuming that's even possible), since similar requests are pretty rare.

 

The FCB1010 is an option for sure and it's cheap (I've two of them, selling both), or more fancy stuff;

 

 

 

[SaschaFranck]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:38 PM, codamedia said:

IMO, the combination of 8 snapshots and 10 stomps is exponentially more powerful than 24 single stomps.

 

I would partially agree, but personally, I hate switching between modes, banks and what not while playing. I'd rather prefer to get away with more "pedal estate" and have an additional row of switches.

What I also would've wished for with the Floor/LT was a 10-snapshot and a 5-stomp/5-snapshot mode. Would've likely used the latter most of the time. I still don't understand why these don't exist, especially as there's a 10-stomp mode.

[datacommando]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:22 PM, PaulTBaker said:

I know is not the same but if you think about it, it could be done.  There are some effects that you would not use together. Put those on a different presets. Your amp could be the same for both presets.   Or several presets.

 

Hi,

 

I was going to suggest this earlier when the OP said there were 24 FX blocks,

 

That could easily be split across 3 Preset all with the same amp and cab and then 8 F/S assignments, but the attitude seems to be that it  should all be in one preset, and why isn't it capable of this simple thing. Obviously it would be too confusing to switch through 3 presets, as it appears it's already too complex to use Snapshots to divide up the work of 4 Delays, 2 Reverbs, 5 Modulation blocks etc. 

 

"I've paid my money and I want it to do exactly as I wish, when I wish, and I also want free updates of boutique amps and exotic effects forever!"

 

Really do despair at some of the madness that rears it's head in this place.

[SaschaFranck]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:45 PM, PierM said:

or more fancy stuff;

 

I think you can even stack the RJMs and have them communicate. €2,455 per unit isn't exactly what I'd call a no-brainer, though.

[PierM]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:49 PM, SaschaFranck said:

 

I think you can even stack the RJMs and have them communicate. €2,455 per unit isn't exactly what I'd call a no-brainer, though.

 

Yep.

 

Price is totally nonsense.

 

I'm in contact with a guy that does great controllers for the right money. Probably gonna grab one of these to swap my FCB1010 which has a ridicolous footprint. (these also accept "polyphonic" FS pressing)

 

https://reverb.com/item/62206369-actition-12-button-universal-usb-din-programmable-midi-foot-controller-footswitch

 

[datacommando]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:49 PM, SaschaFranck said:

€2,455 per unit isn't exactly what I'd call a no-brainer, though.

 

Damn - I have run out of reactions for today so I will go for an "old school" reaction.

 

:-) :-) :-)

[SaschaFranck]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:52 PM, PierM said:

I'm in contact with a guy that does great controllers for the right money. Probably gonna grab one of these to swap my FCB1010 which has a ridicolous footprint. (these also accept "polyphonic" FS pressing)

 

Now, if these are rugged enough, that's a very decent price.

[kaffekask]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:08 PM, datacommando said:

AFAIK, this is not possible anywhere in the world of multi-effect modelling. The Kemper has 14 assignable footswitches available. Here ya go - a run down of the top do-it-all units available in 2022.. Still baffled? Not possible. Not available. There you have it - done.

 

https://www.guitarworld.com/features/best-multi-effects-pedals-for-guitarists

 

And, I just love this comment: "But a simple second and third page of stomp boxes to go beyond 10 seems like a no brainer." If it's really that simple, why does it not exist?

 

Maybe Line 6 should be advertising for someone with "no brain" to pop along one afternoon and code this for them. Unless all the people with no brain have already been snapped up by other companies in the digital modelling game.

 

 

"If it's really that simple, why does it not exist?". Well… that’s not an argument for anything. Some companies just make weird and insane design/software choices.  It is 2022 and Apple still do not let iPhone users change icons on the phone (unless you do it with Shortcuts and get that awful shortcut banner popping up all the time ruining the experience). That decision has annoyed hundreds of millions of iPhone users throughout the years. Can it be dealt with? Yes. They choose not to.

 

Since I know nothing about the science behind pedals and signal flow I was just wondering if this was a strange software choice to not include a bank up/down with more stomp boxes or if there’s a logical reason for it not being there. If you’re a guitarist interested in pedals, wanting more than 10 is not that strange.

 

But once again, I really do not understand how the Helix allows me to build a signal chain with 11 effects but there is a limit of 10 being assignable to footswitches. How can it be impossible for the team to let me change to a new bank to access effect #11? 

[kaffekask]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:22 PM, PaulTBaker said:

You probably thought of this but you could sort of have what you want, just make them on different presets.  I know is not the same but if you think about it, it could be done.  There are some effects that you would not use together. Put those on a different presets. Your amp could be the same for both presets.   Or several presets.  Put your basic stuff in each preaet then add the odd things.   For example, have one preaet with a trem, the other would be the same but have a chorus.   

 

Yeah, I've thought of this. I'm gonna try this and play around with the snapshot feature as well. At least now I know that what I want the Helix to do can't be done.

 

This is not the end of the world, I will figure something out :) I have my eyes on a Custom Audio Electronics midi controller but maybe the presets/snapshots will work out in the end. Thanks guys for your replies!

[zappazapper]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:54 PM, kaffekask said:

How can it be impossible for the team to let me change to a new bank to access effect #11? 

Have you posted on Ideascale and lobbied on this forum and other forums concerning the Helix for support from the community? That's the only realistic way to convince the "team" of your thoughts on design.

[DunedinDragon]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:28 AM, SaschaFranck said:

 

Nah, it's all about the CPU power. In the Helix, apart from a few blocks (such as the pitch shifting affairs) nothing is adding latency, so you can stack blocks up until the wazoo. 32 gain blocks in series will cause exactly the same latency as no blocks at all.

 

This issue isn't about CPU limitations or latency at all. As said, I was running into stomp limits all the time with the Floor.

Well that you can take up with Digital Igloo and the rest of the L6 development team.  They've always been very explicit about why the limits exist based on the number of DSP chips (which are NOT CPUs by the way, they're technically real-time math/audio processors) and why the allocation of blocks are limited per signal chain (the same reason you have to sacrifice one signal chain in order to have no pause between presets because one of those DSP chips must be used as a buffer.  If you're in doubt try loading up 32 delays and see what happens.

[kaffekask]

On 11/26/2022 at 7:03 PM, zappazapper said:

Have you posted on Ideascale and lobbied on this forum and other forums concerning the Helix for support from the community? That's the only realistic way to convince the "team" of your thoughts on design.

 

No, I'm not here to convince the Line6 team of anything, I just want to understand the product I just bought :) I'm new to the forum but I can't really be the first person to wonder about this/want this feature? Right?

 

(I'm gonna check out Ideascale and leave a comment there)

 

 

[zappazapper]

On 11/26/2022 at 1:22 PM, kaffekask said:

No, I'm not here to convince the Line6 team of anything, I just want to understand the product I just bought :) I'm new to the forum but I can't really be the first person to wonder about this/want this feature? Right?

 

Fair enough.

 

The short answer, then, is that the Helix doesn't work like that.

 

The long answer is that the way the Helix DOES work is based on the idea of gapless switching of sounds in those moments when an audible gap would be distracting. Changing presets causes an audible gap. The Snapshots feature addresses this by allowing the user to load up all the blocks (s)he would need for a song in a single preset, and then save different combinations of the bypass and parameter states of all of those blocks so that sounds can be switched without having to dump and load blocks from the memory. Then the user would theoretically select another preset between songs when an audible gap isn't (shouldn't be) an issue. 

 

So the Helix is really kind of designed around the idea of "songs" and "sounds". You load up a preset that has what you need for all the sounds you'll use for a song, use Snapshots to do the necessary switching, and then move on to the next preset for the next song. What you're doing is loading up every effect you're ever going to need for your entire life in a single preset. Nothing wrong with that, except ya, how do you control everything? So you might want to think about being more "song" and "sound"-based. I say "more" song-based because even I play multiple songs with the same preset. I have presets that cover entire albums, because I was able to figure out a way to get all the sounds on that album into one preset using a combination of stomps and snapshots. But then I also have presets that are for just one song because trying to pack that in with everything else would make EVERYTHING more difficult to control. It's really about reducing the amount of footwork. You can have all the sounds you want, but if you spread them out over multiple presets and use the switching features available to good use, it'll be FAR less work than even if you could have multiple pages of stomps. 

[PierM]

In all honestly, even if I had 24 physical pedals, I'd never - ever - use them in a tap dance. That's totally messed up and inefficient. You'd use a loop switcher, which is basically what snapshots are for.

 

Also, in a hypothetical multipage stomp mode, you'd have to remember what's on and where... along 3 pages of stomps, sharing same led colors.

 

I call it mess.

[datacommando]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:54 PM, kaffekask said:

"If it's really that simple, why does it not exist?". Well… that’s not an argument for anything…

 

…If you’re a guitarist interested in pedals, wanting more than 10 is not that strange.

 

But once again, I really do not understand how the Helix allows me to build a signal chain with 11 effects but there is a limit of 10 being assignable to footswitches. How can it be impossible for the team to let me change to a new bank to access effect #11? 

 

That’s rather odd, because you were proposing that the concept was a “no brainier”. Hmm… yeah, right! “How can be it impossible?” is a question that needs to be aimed at the Line 6 Software Engineers, not users of the forum, who are not Line 6 staff or privy to the workings of their minds. Plus none of those people are here.

 

Wanting more than ten pedals is definitely not strange, it’s what is commonly referred to GAS. We all suffer from it to some degree, come with the territory.
 

You should understand that - yes the Helix does allow you to create a signal chain with up to 32 blocks that can be assigned however you wish - the trick is to use then with a modicum of common sense and plan how you intend to deploy these effects. The whole reason for “Snapshots” was for users to be able map up to 64 different parameter changes across a single preset and create the concept of “presets within a preset” with 8 or 10 footswitches  - this was one of those things that people complained about not having especially as Fractal users had “Scenes” available to them.

 

 

On 11/26/2022 at 6:22 PM, kaffekask said:

No, I'm not here to convince the Line6 team of anything, I just want to understand the product I just bought :) I'm new to the forum but I can't really be the first person to wonder about this/want this feature? Right?

 

(I'm gonna check out Ideascale and leave a comment there)

That’s also rather odd once more, because I refer you to your previous comment, “How can it be impossible for the team to let me change…”

 

No, you’re not the first to wonder about this - see above reference to “Snapshots”.

 

Sign up for IdeaScale and check that nobody else has already posted a similar feature request.

 

Hope this makes sense.

[toddkc]

I could be wrong here, and honestly I'm curious if I am, but I don't think even adding an extra midi controller would allow this to be done.  I have an FCB1010 and have hooked it up to my floor but according to the midi section in the manual you still only get access to the same 8 snapshots and 10 stomps.  AFAIK there is no way to add extra stomps even with the external midi pedal.   I have my fcb1010 setup so that I can use it to change snapshots while keeping the floor in stomp mode and that definitely adds some novelty but nothing I would buy the extra pedal for if I hadn't already owned it.

 

https://helixhelp.com/tips-and-guides/universal/midi