Bad distortion sound from amp block

[Shalliite]

 

Hello,

I am having an issue with my helix sound. When using single amp with no cabs attached in the signal chain it sounds like very distorted tiny speaker. It is present in any pickup position. When I add cab then it reduces a bit, but does not go away completely. Using speakers or headphones makes almost no difference. Does it mean that I have to explicitly use cabs? Should it not sound fine without them?

 

Guitar pickups: Alnico V single coils. (strat type)

Signal flow: Guitar->Helix->Digital mixing console->Speakers, headphones

 

Could someone help with this issue?

Sound sample is found below together with screenshot from helix preset.

 

 

 

 

 

[rd2rk]

Another one of these silly .php files.

Why not save it as .wav or .mp3 so everybody can actually HEAR it?

[DunedinDragon]

THIS is an actual AC30 Fawn which you are modeling.  Notice the speaker cabinet is an integral part of the unit.  Why would there be a question on this?

[Shalliite]

@DunedinDragon @rd2rk Here I added the sound sample below! If you listen carefully then it sounds scratchy. Almost like tiny little speaker pushing its limits and going into clipping. I am not sure if VOX AC30 should sound like that. Should I tweak an EQ a bit?

 

 

 

[Shalliite]

Also to mention that it gets worse if I turn gain up.

[PerS]

Don’t know what sound you are after/expect but generally speaking: A real amp consists of three parts – Preamp, Power amp and Speaker/s. That’s the signal chain and that’s the box DunedinDragon showed you above. 

 

Without deep diving the speakers are an “integrated” part of the power amp sound/response. That’s what Line6 emulates, with a microphone stuck into the speaker. If you remove the speaker, you remove part of the power amp/speaker/mic, you remove what is used to “eq/sound sculpture” the sound for that particular amp. You don’t remove the speaker in the real world. You change amp, speaker and/or mic to do that. What you can do is

• To replace the speaker with an EQ and sculpture the sound from there. Numerus of articles on that, search the forum for more info.
• You find a speaker that sounds decent to you and then place an EQ, one or more, on places in the signal chain. Depending on what I want. I sometimes place it before my amp block, between the power amp and speaker and/or after the speaker. Then tune to taste.
• In some cases it’s enough with just the preamp to reach the sound you want. Done that to get some nice jazz and blues tones, also for acoustic tone.
• Change amp, you might not like that particular AC30 Fawn. There are other AC30 alternatives in Helix, and speakers. 

Or a combo of the above. One thing for sure, at least for me, in my 10+ years I have been using modelers, I never liked the sound of a full amp without speakers (but what could I say, I play blues). The rest I’ve fixed with effect pedals and EQ’s.  

 

Yes, and when you turn up the gain the distortion level and some unwanted frequencies will appear that the speaker/s will filter out. If this filtering is not to taste you change amp, speaker/s and/or use an EQ to reach the sound goals.

 

//Per  
 

[datacommando]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:14 PM, Shalliite said:

Does it mean that I have to explicitly use cabs? Should it not sound fine without them?

Really? 
 

You feel the need for someone to answer this for you?

 

I don’t know what you have been using prior to the Helix floor, but I would guess that some sort of speaker cabinet, Impulse Response, load box, or EQ sculpting was involved?

 

You say: - “When using single amp with no cabs attached in the signal chain it sounds like very distorted tiny speaker.”

Hmm… well, what did you anticipate the the sound would be like? 
 

I often tell people that because the Helix is a digital modelling system you can do things that would not generally be possible in the real world, with out the risk of anything blowing up!

But, ITRW, 

As a general rule, you cannot play guitar through just an amp head. The head makes no sound on its own. In fact, using a tube amp head without a speaker connected is dangerous, and can seriously damage the amp. The head requires a load to distribute its power, usually provided by a speaker cabinet.

It may be advisable to read this:-

https://homemusiccreator.com/can-play-through-just-amp-head/

Hope this helps/makes sense 

[Shalliite]

Yes, thank you, will experiment with it!

[codamedia]

On 2/3/2023 at 4:14 PM, Shalliite said:

Does it mean that I have to explicitly use cabs?

 

Yes.... either use the AMP+CAB block, or separate AMP & CAB blocks. 

 

On 2/3/2023 at 4:14 PM, Shalliite said:

When I add cab then it reduces a bit, but does not go away completely.

 

Most players don't scrutinize a real amp the way they do a modeler. Artifacts like you describe exist on real amps as well... it's called crossover distortion. Place a mic on an amp, throw the headphones on and scrutinize the tone. You probably won't like what you hear at first. I recall a discussion about Van Halen not having that in his tones.... someone posted an isolated Van Halen track and SURPRISE, there it was. 

 

FWIW... the crossover distortion is part of the "power amp". If you run a pre-amp model into a Cabinet that will often go away, but you also lose a lot of character from the amp... especially on a VOX AC15 or AC30 model where the power amp is a huge part of the character. 

[MGW-Alberta]

Change your block from Amp (Fawn30) to Amp+Cab (Fawn 30)

 

Helix combo amp models are divided into 3 main groups.

There's Amp+Cab (the whole combo)

There's Amp (like if it was a head unit, pre-amp + power amp but no cabinet)

And then there's Pre-Amp (no power section, no speaker cabinet)

 

 

Once you've made that change you can play with mic selection and placements.

You should also understand that an AC-30 is already a bright sounding amp.

You might still find it a bit on the thin sounding side depending on what you're used to or expecting.