Agua 51 Master Control

[Nos402]

I've noticed that on all the other amps (I think) that the "Master" parameter comes AFTER the "Ch Vol" parameter but that on the Agua 51 it comes BEFORE the Ch Vol parameter. Is this intentional and has some actual logic or meaning or just a single inconsistency?

[Nos402]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:30 PM, Nos402 said:

I've noticed that on all the other amps (I think) that the "Master" parameter comes AFTER the "Ch Vol" parameter but that on the Agua 51 it comes BEFORE the Ch Vol parameter. Is this intentional and has some actual logic or meaning or just a single inconsistency?

EDIT: Nope this doesn't appear to be it as several of the models that DO have a Master Volume on the original amps are still Ch Vol > Master. So I'm not sure why a few of them are Master > Ch Vol.

 

Just noticed the Del Sol 300 also orders them Master then Ch Vol. Is it maybe that if the Master comes BEFORE Ch Vol then the original amp had a master volume control but if Master come AFTER the Ch Vol then maybe the original did not have a master volume control? I'll have to do some research!

[datacommando]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:30 PM, Nos402 said:

I've noticed that on all the other amps (I think) that the "Master" parameter comes AFTER the "Ch Vol" parameter but that on the Agua 51 it comes BEFORE the Ch Vol parameter. Is this intentional and has some actual logic or meaning or just a single inconsistency?

Hi,

 

This is copied from the old Helix Help WordPress site by “JSHIMKOSKI”

 

The Channel Volume as equivalent to a channel strip on a mixing console. It simply turns up or down the overall volume of the amp. It does not effect the tone.

The Master Volume is essentially the master volume on the amp itself and therefore will effect tone by adding or decreasing dirt/grit.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[Nos402]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:43 PM, datacommando said:

Hi,

 

This is copied from the old Helix Help WordPress site by “JSHIMKOSKI”

 

The Channel Volume as equivalent to a channel strip on a mixing console. It simply turns up or down the overall volume of the amp. It does not effect the tone.

The Master Volume is essentially the master volume on the amp itself and therefore will effect tone by adding or decreasing dirt/grit.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

Yeah but what's baffling me is why it's usually Ch Vol > Master but on a few models it's Master > Ch Vol.

[datacommando]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:50 PM, Nos402 said:

 

Yeah but what's baffling me is why it's usually Ch Vol > Master but on a few models it's Master > Ch Vol.

Hi,

 

Why should it be baffling?
 

The Channel Volume has no bearing on the tone of the amp model. The Master Volume does change the sound.

 

Here’s another quote from Ben Adrian, when he was asked “Why all those extra knobs?” - Ben’s the guy who creates these amp models:-

“If an amp has a small number of knobs, then we will invent the knobs in a way that makes the most sense to us. First, let me say that the Channel Volume (ChVol) knob is ALWAYS a flat response, post amp model level control. This is like a fader on a console. It's in the amp model, but it's not tied to the tonality of the amp model. It's how I level different presets so that they play well together.“

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[Nos402]

On 3/16/2023 at 5:02 PM, datacommando said:

Hi,

 

Why should it be baffling?
 

The Channel Volume has no bearing on the tone of the amp model. The Master Volume does change the sound.

 

Here’s another quote from Ben Adrian, when he was asked “Why all those extra knobs?” - Ben’s the guy who creates these amp models:-

“If an amp has a small number of knobs, then we will invent the knobs in a way that makes the most sense to us. First, let me say that the Channel Volume (ChVol) knob is ALWAYS a flat response, post amp model level control. This is like a fader on a console. It's in the amp model, but it's not tied to the tonality of the amp model. It's how I level different presets so that they play well together.“

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

 

I get that but why the inconsistency? For example as seen in the images, on the Woody Blue it's Ch Vol then Master but on the Agua 51 it's Master then Ch Vol.

[datacommando]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:12 PM, Nos402 said:

I get that but why the inconsistency?

Once again, you find it inconsistent, but it is completely irrelevant.
 

As Ben says in the quote above:

 

“we will invent the knobs in a way that makes the most sense to us.”

 

Oh, or maybe because the Auga has a bloody great big MASTER knob on the front panel and the Channel Volume is simply for final audio level. It doesn’t have any influence on the sound.

 

https://www.aguilaramp.com/bass-amps/db-751/
 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[MayPRS]

When I start using the Helix (and trying to get a AC30 + TB tone a la Brian May), I also misinterpreted Ch. Vol vs Master Vol, because on my REAL AC30, the Ch. Vol adds grit/dirt whereas the Master Volume is just a volume increased/decreased of the overall amp. The Ch. Vol. on the AC30 controls the preamp volume and the Master the power amp volume. Of course, in a few minutes into testing, I found that, on the Helix, it was the opposite (in naming).

[brue58ski]

So just to be clear, The channel volume, no matter where it is on the interface, controls only the level of the volume/loudness of the amp, after all of the parameters. So, like a fader on a mixing console, affects ONLY the overall volume of the amp in the chain and in no way changes the way it sounds. Why did they do that? I don't know. Why are you asking me?

[bassbene]

So this is solely about the visual order of parameters, and not about sound right?
I would not expect that the order of parameters reflects anything in terms of the signal chain. Take the SVT4Pro as example, the graphic eq will not be after the master volume in the real world, right?

To the big "why this inconsistency?". My bet is for the sake of consistency - Havng the channel volume at the same spot on nearly* every amp model. The channel-volume parameter is typically* the 6th parameter of an amp, making it the most-left parameter on the first page. If an amp has a small number of parameters (like the Aguilar), it might be that the "master" is used to fill the space, to ensure that the channel volume is on its usual position.
*Ok, picky people might notice, that there are exceptions as well (Del Sol, Busy One..)

[lou-kash]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:12 PM, Nos402 said:

why the inconsistency?

 

While I'm fully aware that the order is not relevant here, I've found it slightly annoying as well.

My personal preference would be:

Ch Vol always on top of the list. 

 

Either that, or user adjustable order of parameters. (Wasn't there a thread on that topic just recently?)