Headrush Prime is here... Let's talk features, and what Line 6 can learn from this!

[theElevators]

 

 

First of all this does absolutely everything, including pedal (including fuzz), and amp captures... Second of all the price is $1,200 which is sick! 

 

[DunedinDragon]

I'm sure Line 6 is looking at this as well as other happenings in the modeling space.  With all the attention being given to profiling these days it's hard to tell whether that trend is really durable or not.  Certainly profiling as we've known it from the Kemper approach has it's limitations in much the same way as IR's have limits based on the regimen used in the capture.  And although there may be some that are drawn to it, there are also many of us that aren't that interested in it and just fine with a pure modeling approach.  So where does this lead?  Who knows?  But I have confidence that Line 6 will do what they deem to be the best in terms of performance and market opportunities.  They have a good track record at that.

[PierM]

It does give me back pain just watching at it...

[theElevators]

yeah... the on-screen editor is great to have, but I too do a majority of my editing using HX Edit. 

 

I don't know, I've always thought that Headrush was very harsh-sounding and very digital.  Nobody up till now has posted any shoegaze or surf-type of things on YouTube playing it... Well, I was in Texas a few months ago, and a country guitarist was getting all that twangy tone out of the Headrush processor...  I guess the Line 6 processors also had that reputation as being catered for metal type of music mostly. 

 

It's interesting to see how products evolve, and I'm not ditching my Helix, because as I said many times before, I've invested way too much time into building my presets and that'd be insane to scrap it all and go to the latest and the greatest gadget. 

[ricstudioc]

On 3/21/2023 at 5:55 AM, DunedinDragon said:

With all the attention being given to profiling these days it's hard to tell whether that trend is really durable or not. 

It's always been my understanding that when you profile an amp, you're capturing its settings at that moment, and are extremely limited in how much you can edit that.  i.e if you capture that Mesa at full grinding shred, you're not going to be able to clean it up just by lowering whatever gain control is available.  You're not so much profiling an amp as you are capturing a particular specific sound.

 

I personally prefer the modeling approach where the circuitry and responsiveness of the amp, through all of its control permutations, are available.  Done well (thanks, Ben Adrian!) one can access a much wider palette of tones from a single amp model.  Most of my presets are based on that concept, with a single amp's settings being changed to achieve varying results from clean to mean.

[MayPRS]

Not very impressed at the tone he's getting on that video actually... full of features I'm sure but must deliver in tone as well.

[rd2rk]

I've been using ToneX for a while now (SW and Pedal), with stock (ToneX MAX) and 3rd Party (Amalgam and Jason Sadites) tone models.

It's nice being able to try amps that I'll never even see ITRW, even if they are restricted to what somebody else thinks sounds good.

Some of them really do sound good.

I have a Helix preset configured so that I can use Snapshots to quickly switch between Helix/Catalyst/ToneX for comparisons.

 

Bottom line - the "Golden Ears" crowd can rave all day about how "night and day" superior "captures" are vs "models", and the "I've been playing tube amps for 700 years" bunch can yammer on and on about the "vastly superior feel and responsiveness" of captures vs models. My evaluation thus far is that ToneX is a nice toy and fun to use, and as the community gets better at making captures it will continue to improve in usefulness, but the excessive hype is just that. The main thing it succeeds in doing is expanding the "which of my 10,000 IRs is PERFECT for THIS tone" rabbit hole into "which of my 10,000 IRs and 10,000 Amp Captures is PERFECT for THIS tone" rabbit hole.

 

My Helix ain't going nowhere.

 

Zappa was right. Gracie too.

 

"And if you go chasing rabbits

and you know you're going to fall

Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar

has given you the call

He called Alice

when she was just small..."

 

 

[Schmalle]

Nice flagship floorboard at a very nice price. If I'd be in the market for a new full-featured device this would be my prime pick between Helix / HR Prime / FM 9 / Kemper Floor / Quad Cortex. It would need to pass my audio comparison against the HX Stomp though.

[rd2rk]

Now that I've watched the entire video I'll comment on my first impressions of the whole unit.

 

NICE!

 

I especially like the "Practice Tool" and the very visual Looper vs the very minimal and difficult to use (for me at least) Helix looper.

I could be won over to the touch screen. The general user-friendliness of the whole UI is impressive!

The tones themselves sound OK but of course that's something, along with "feel" and "responsiveness", that requires hands-and-ears-on time to properly evaluate.

 

The capturing process was impressive. When I first got ToneX I made captures of the 6 amps in my Catalyst (my only physical amp).

When I FINALLY figured out how to hook it all up I was VERY impressed that the captures were indistinguishable from the originals.

The very well done instructions for the Prime's capture process, combined with the entire process being done ITB vs ToneX's reliance on a computer with a specific GPU for reasonable capture times places this several steps above ToneX and, if my needs included capturing the 300 classic tube amps that I wish I had in my warehouse sized music room I'd be regretting the ToneX purchase.

 

Looking forward to the comments from the bleeding edge adopters who will no doubt soon be flooding TGP with their astute(?) observations...

[TLF2007]

The amount of lanes is reduced from the Helix which would be a drag for my acoustic thing with another guitarist and vocal process etc. Also looks like less overall model/patch availability but I don't ever come close to max out the Helix as it is. The lack of an editor is a bit of a killer for me. I'm surprised there aren't any captures out there at time of launch maybe they will do them soon or via a third party. I liked how you could capture pedals but I'm sure controls wouldn't exactly match. There was a baseline set of controls to set for the capture so at least the clone would have a tonal reference. I think the Headrush in general stuff sounds fine when compared to the Helix. Definitely different but for a PA/cover thing, more than fine (at least to me).  The thing is BIG and a shallow comment: I don't like the color scheme with the gold.

[theElevators]

On 3/21/2023 at 2:55 PM, TLF2007 said:

The amount of lanes is reduced from the Helix which would be a drag for my acoustic thing with another guitarist and vocal process etc. Also looks like less overall model/patch availability but I don't ever come close to max out the Helix as it is. The lack of an editor is a bit of a killer for me. I'm surprised there aren't any captures out there at time of launch maybe they will do them soon or via a third party. I liked how you could capture pedals but I'm sure controls wouldn't exactly match. There was a baseline set of controls to set for the capture so at least the clone would have a tonal reference. I think the Headrush in general stuff sounds fine when compared to the Helix. Definitely different but for a PA/cover thing, more than fine (at least to me).  The thing is BIG and a shallow comment: I don't like the color scheme with the gold.

 

They can easily have different special edition color schemes... Just like Helix products come in white, blue, red, grey (aside from the regular black). 

[soundog]

On 3/21/2023 at 10:34 AM, rd2rk said:

My evaluation thus far is that ToneX is a nice toy and fun to use,...but the excessive hype is just that. The main thing it succeeds in doing is expanding the "which of my 10,000 IRs is PERFECT for THIS tone" rabbit hole into "which of my 10,000 IRs and 10,000 Amp Captures is PERFECT for THIS tone" rabbit hole

 

 

Well, I might still use my Helix Stomp for live performance (where it becomes more difficult to distinguish differences, and where the Stomp provides good effects in the same box). But for me, for studio recording, Tonex has completely replaced Helix and HX Native for amp and cab modeling. (FYI, I spend zero time in a model or IR "rabbit hole" because I have the handful of amp+cab tones I need.) That's my opinion this year.

 

Pick your favorite and learn to use it...

[rd2rk]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:13 PM, soundog said:

Well, I might still use my Helix Stomp for live performance (where it becomes more difficult to distinguish differences, and where the Stomp provides good effects in the same box). But for me, for studio recording, Tonex has completely replaced Helix and HX Native for amp and cab modeling. (FYI, I spend zero time in a model or IR "rabbit hole" because I have the handful of amp+cab tones I need.) That's my opinion this year.

 

Pick your favorite and learn to use it...

 

I think you may have nailed it. When you only need a few sounds for what you do in the studio or need to have a million possibilities available on demand to get a perfect fit in any mix for any client, captures/profiles/tone models and IRs might be the way to go. Especially if the client has deep pockets ;-)

 

Live, when ITRW you might just turn around to your amp and tweak the Presence or some other tone stack setting, bending down to do it on whatever Helix amp you're using for that song might be the way to go. Sure, I can make gain/eq adjustments on my ToneX pedal, but it isn't really the same.

 

IF L6 gets into this area, I hope that what they do is come up with a way to treat captures like the new cabs - a dial that can morph slowly between several captures to get those in-between tones. I think KPA has something like this, but maybe L6 can do it better?

[codamedia]

I think the end of the review sums it up... when it comes to modeling, stick to the major units. A re-branded "Eleven Rack / Headrush Gig Board" with added Peavey modeling won't be replacing my Helix anytime soon. If I ever decide to look at profiling I'd look at the Tonex.

 

Certainly there will be features here that impact others in a more positive way than the Helix does... but not for me. 

[jkellam24]

Saw this the other day. Put an order in for one immediately.

Bought a Helix Floor last Black Friday, then a coule of months ago, bought a used HR Gigboard from a guy at work for cheap. The Gigboard blew me away, just didn't have enuff buttons on it.

   If this is as good as I think I will use this live, with the Gigboard for backup, and leave the Helix at home for studio work.

 

Aint it a great time to be a guitar picker?!

    James

   

[davidsos]

When it first came out I got a Headrush and was terribly disappointed, it was buggy and I returned it. Since then I went through several modelers and finally landed on the Helix Floorboard which I love. When the Headrush MX5 came out I got one, it was greatly improved and is my grab and go modeler. It is the same as the bigger Gigboard or Floorboard, same DSP same everything but less footswitches so less control. Not speaking to the Prime they do not have the parameters to tweak as Helix but nonetheless it sounds pretty decent. The big problem is the MIDI control is lacking, no parameters. Just foot switches, blocks and looper. No specific program change either. I was able to get an Ampero footswitch and use it to control all of the blocks (on/off) and looper. I looked at the manual for the Prime and it has the same MIDI weaknesses. The Prime has only one send and one return the manual doesn't say anything about stereo but they're TRS so hopefully they're stereo. I couldn't find anything about what effects are available so I can't tell if they've improved anything in that department. If that hasn't improved I would be disappointed. I will say that the MX5 is a great small easy to carry around modeler. I'm not sure if I'd be getting the Prime as I'm extremely happy with my helix, especially with the latest 3.5 firmware update.

[soundog]

Rule of thumb: if AutoTune is bundled in a hardware guitar pedal, run away!

[Schmalle]

On 3/31/2023 at 9:39 PM, soundog said:

Rule of thumb: if AutoTune is bundled in a hardware guitar pedal, run away!

Headrush to Soundog:

No matter how hard I try
You keep pushing me aside
And I can't break through
There's no talking to you

[z3albw1rr]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:39 PM, soundog said:

Rule of thumb: if AutoTune is bundled in a hardware guitar pedal, run away!

Yeah I saw that in the video and I'm like - what?

[datacommando]

On 3/31/2023 at 8:39 PM, soundog said:

Rule of thumb: if AutoTune is bundled in a hardware guitar pedal, run away!

Fact: If I never hear an AutoTuned vocal again, it will be far too soon for me. 
 

Ye gods, whatever next?

[rd2rk]

On 3/31/2023 at 4:31 PM, datacommando said:

Fact: If I never hear an AutoTuned vocal again, it will be far too soon for me. 
 

Ye gods, whatever next?

 

In a few years, most Pop music will be pure AI.

Most Pop music fans won't be able to tell the difference.

The only question is... will they care?

[datacommando]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:30 AM, rd2rk said:

 

In a few years, most Pop music will be pure AI.

Most Pop music fans won't be able to tell the difference.

The only question is... will they care?

Why would they care in a few years time? They don’t care now.

And, this is from a man who bought an AKAI S950 sampler in the late 80s.

Nnnnnn. Nine… Nineteen nnn Nineteen Eighties.

Back to mono! Oh, no that's been done - dead and buried. 

[Paulzx]

I saw that video when it first came out. All sounded interesting but pretty sure the conclusion on the actual sound of the unit was that it wasn't quite as good as it's competitors, specifically Helix and Fractal. That's really all I look for now. Extra features are nice but not enough for me to buy something. It has to be quite a lot better sounding to get me interested at this point. 

[lperry65]

So I have the Prime, also Helix, Kemper stage and GT1000. I’ve had them all out side by side, used the looper, created patches and cloned a couple of amps. I’m going to clone some pedals later today.

 

hopefully this will help you guys rather than listening to opinions from people who have only read posts and watched videos.

 

It’s large, let’s just get that out of the way. If your looking for a fly rig then this is way too big and it’s got some weight to it.

 

however it has its upside, it’s only a little bit larger than the Helix floor but the stomp spacing means your less likely to hit the wrong one, something I do when playing and singing using the Kemper stage. It also has that nice large touch screen, I wasn’t sure if I’d like it but it works really well.

The profiles are as good as my Kemper, and I find the process easier. Maybe because I’ve had the Kemper for a while I was used to profiling and didn’t have any issues, I’ve watched videos where some have had issues with a particular amp but my victory, fenders and H&K TM 40 Deluxe all worked fine.

 

My personal opinion on the modelling is that it’s on par with the Helix and GT1000, the helix has more amps and effects but HR have only just released the Prime so that could improve over time.

 

I found the default patches to be … let’s just say I made my own. Within a couple of hours I was whizzing around that touch screen making patches that I was really happy with.

 

I’ve not used the vocal side yet, probably do that over the weekend, but I’ve found the effects on the guitar to be very usable. I also have several nice pedals I’m going to clone, plus my brother collects pedals so I’ll borrow some of his too.

 

One of the first things I noticed once I’d got the hang of the UI was how much time I spent “Playing the guitar”. I created some loops which is so easy to use; and just improvised for like two hours. I sat there with my headphones on and was just away in my own world playing guitar. Now that may sound like a strange thing to say, but I normally end up fiddling around trying to get the sound I’m after for ages on the others !

 

There’s still a few things I haven’t tried yet, like creating snapshots with different parameters etc. but I’ll do that this weekend when I try the vocal side.

 

in summary, if the size isn’t an issue for you then try one. I got mine from Gear4Music on 30 day’s return, if you don’t like it then send it back. 
 

But I think once you have one in front of you for a few hours you’ll start to feel reluctant to let it go :)

 

I’m hoping Tone Junkie is going to release his Kemper catalog for the Prime, now that would be awesome.

;)