Can't get rotary effect to sound very convincing

[boynigel]

does anyone have any tips for getting a more convincing sound out of any of the Rotary/Leslie blocks, particularly at fast horn setttings?  No matter what i do it always comes off sounding like a chorus pedal trying to mimic a rotary effect, at best.  I have an H9 that does an "acceptable" rotary imitation, but i'd prefer not having to add an external pedal for the sake of one effect for one song.  It probably doesn't help that i owned the Strymon Lex.  Maybe the bar was simply set too high?

[theElevators]

I like the sound of a dirty leslie... so I put it before the amp. 

[themetallikid]

I found Jason Sadites youtube video on his workaround to get a good sound works for me.  Not sure how true it really is, but It gets me the sound I need.   Also have seen some posts about not running it into a cab block as well.  

[datacommando]

On 3/28/2023 at 10:20 PM, themetallikid said:

Also have seen some posts about not running it into a cab block as well.

 

 ^^^^^THIS^^^^^

[boynigel]

On 3/28/2023 at 5:20 PM, themetallikid said:

Also have seen some posts about not running it into a cab block as well.  

by default i don't use cab blocks because i use my LT into the effects loop return of my guitar amp.

[waymda]

On 3/29/2023 at 11:24 AM, boynigel said:

by default i don't use cab blocks because i use my LT into the effects loop return of my guitar amp.

Well that will make it tricky, a leslie a speaker with a moving baffle and/or horn - so you're putting an emulated speaker into a real one. In addition, although not strickly stereo its an effect best perceived through binaural hearing (ie might as well be stereo) because of the movement of reflections in the space the speaker (cab) is in. That might explain your perception of it being more like a chorus.

[boynigel]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:09 AM, waymda said:

Well that will make it tricky, a leslie a speaker with a moving baffle and/or horn - so you're putting an emulated speaker into a real one

right, and i get that.  but the thing is, that's how i was doing it when i had the Strymon Lex which sounded phenomenal, and my H9 does a decent job too...although not quite as good as the Lex.  I'm guessing that the Rotary effects are simply one of the weak effects of Helix.  Nothing excels at everything, right?  Maybe @craiganderton would have a suggestion/tip?

[datacommando]

On 3/29/2023 at 1:38 PM, boynigel said:

the Strymon Lex which sounded phenomenal…

As you know the Strymon Lex was designed to produce that one specific effect, and it even has a cab filter for when it is not being run into a guitar amp and cab.

 

 Big clue - it’s tuned to that particular system. Your Helix does lots and lots of other stuff, but it is noted that if you want a Leslie Rotary speaker effect, you should not have it running into another cabinet. If you do it will sound more like a chorus pedal warbling - oh, guess what, that’s exactly what you have.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[boynigel]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:57 AM, datacommando said:

As you know the Strymon Lex was designed to produce that one specific effect

right, which is why I won't fault the Helix, or the H9, for not being on the same playing field for that one specific effect.  I knew it was a given that i'd never get the Helix version to sound that good, but figured i'd see if anyone had any hacks for getting at least a little closer.  I'll probably just make do w/the Helix rotary for practices, and save schlepping the H9 just for gigs.  we're too spoiled when we start bitching about having to schlep an extra pedal, right?

[datacommando]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:44 PM, boynigel said:

we're too spoiled when we start bitching about having to schlep an extra pedal, right?

Yep, damn right. 
 

Plus you threw out an @craiganderton tag in an earlier post - if you had purchased his ebook on Helix (HINT!), you might have taken into consideration the fact you are actually running 4CM into a mono amp. Craig points out that all these Rotary FX are stereo. This was also mentioned in the post from @waymda, in an earlier post, stating that collapsing this down to mono is possibly contributing to the pseudo chorus effect.

 

Ultimately, the general consensus of comments I have ever seen about the Helix Rotary FX, is it’s a speaker emulation, don’t run it into another speaker. Helix is a whole lot of stuff, but not absolute Nirvana. You’ve got the toys - stick ‘em in the FX loop - result eternal happiness.

 

 

[z3albw1rr]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:18 PM, boynigel said:

does anyone have any tips for getting a more convincing sound out of any of the Rotary/Leslie blocks,

They've never been very good.

 

I was messing with them last night again in fact.

 

I was trying them before some drives rather than after and honestly... I kind of like them better that way. But they're still very much "not like what I hear on records".

 

Since the rotaries tend to sound like a chorus emulating a rotating speaker, you're almost just as well off to use a chorus to emulate it!

 

I find the chorus doesn't alter the overall tone so much.

 

Have you tried the Legacy ones? IIRC they have a mix control where the stereo ones don't - or there's a balance between the horn and speaker, or some additional parameters that can help you dial in the sound a little more.