Volume perception in 4 CM? My ears or...?

[MayPRS]

I connect my LT in 4 CM thru my physical amp.

 

On a preset that I have a Dual Delay (on path 1A) using 50% Mix so I get same level of guitar tone and same level for repeats, I noticed that, on lower volumes (as I program the Helix at home) the repeats are noticeable lower than the guitar played note. On gig levels I didn't noticed this but this makes it hard to program the Helix at home when I cannot be sure the output at gig levels would be the same. Also, on gig levels, if I overlay a lot of notes (thus repeating themselves) I clearly hear a unpleasant distortion on the repeats.

 

Also (and I think it might be related): using Twin Harmony block at home levels - If i put the block on path 1B at 50% mix, it sound's great and I hear the same amount of guitar note and harmonies. At gig levels I can barely hear the harmonies.

 

Surely my fault as I'm missing something. The signal path is quite basic. FX Send/Block first in chain and all effects after this (as it just delays, harmonies and reverbs - I don't use Helix OD/DS).

 

Many thanks!

[brue58ski]

You may already know this. It will be probably mentioned so I'll be the first. It sounds like the Fletcher-Munson effect. The frequency response curve of your ear actually changes as sound gets louder. So the place that is generally accepted as where it's "flattest" is at 80dB. You can se that on the chart. This is kind  of loud but not ear piercing, next to a jet plane loud. Your sound is inevetibly going to change if you create your patch at home levels and perform with it at performance levels. I'm assuming those levels will be at around 80 dB or higher.

So, the first step is to create you patches at 80dB if you're in a position to do so. If not, try and create an EQ curve that would represent the Fletcher Munson curve at the levels you are creating them at. You will essentially be boosting the lows and highs. For those of you that remember this, that's what the loudness switch on stereos did. It was to give you the same listening experience at lower  volumes that you'd get at higher volumes. If this is all stuff you already know, I apologize.

 

I've never done the 4 cable method before so base on the 4CM diagram I found, could it be that your signal going into the FX return is too strong? What I'm thinking is maybe as you turn up your amp it some how effects the signal going to the FX send. That would be weird but thisis just a huge guess. Do you know what the level of the FX send of your amp is? Is it line, mic or instrument?  The other thing would be just to change the mix % and see what that does. Keep in mind, that I have never used the 4 cable method and do not know exactly what your signal path is. Like where your FX Send and return are in your patch. Just some thoughts and if you already know all of this stuff, I apologize. One more thing, does the FX return on the Helix have a control for the level going into it?

 

[MayPRS]

Many thanks @brue58ski Lots of great info. Yes, unfortunately I don't have the chance of creating patches using full gig volumes. But I might have to rental a rehearsal room and take my amp as well, so I can drive it at gig levels and don't have any surprise when playing live. On gigs its hard to take time at soundcheck to do these adjustments...

[MGW-Alberta]

A friend of mine found a space to rent for not very much money in an older industrial park that is slowly becoming vacant as businesses move to newer and better locations.  It's perfect as a rehearsal space with lots of room for cases and other stuff. 16 feet wide. 40 feet deep.  More space than a typical two car garage.  His band rehearses there at or near full gig volume.  Never a complaint.  Nobody lives in industrial parks.  There are no neighbours after 6 PM. Always plenty of parking for friends and girlfriends who might show up for a beer after the rehearsal.