New HX Stomp arrived: Need help in dialing a decent sound

[gobygoo]

Hi all!

 

New HX Stomp user here. Not used to such a complex unit, so a little overwhelmed.

I've been trying to dial in a decent sound for a couple of hours without success.

To try to get a simple benchmark, I found this video. The guy here gets a descent sound immediately on 1:55 just by selecting the "Brit P75 Brt" amp+cab with default settings:

 

I tried to do the same, but I'm getting a totally different tone with not nearly as much gain. Am I doing something wrong ? I can share a sound sample if it helps.

 

Thanks!

[rd2rk]

First things first.

What FW version is your HXS on?

When you boot it up the FW version displays on the screen.

Make sure you're on the latest version - 3.60.

If not, go to Line6 Downloads and find the latest version of HX Edit for your computer/OS.

DL and install it. The first time you run the new version it will check your FW and ask if you want to update.

FOLLOW ALL OF THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY!

If you don't follow the instructions EXACTLY you'll probably brick your HXS and then you'll be back here crying and we'll all be laughing at you.

Not really, but you get the point.

 

Next, what is your playback system?

Are you trying to get the sound of a Plexi into a 412 cab on a pair of computer speakers?

 

Now that you're on the latest FW and assuming that you have (at least) a decent pair of studio monitors, go to a NEW PRESET.

Add an AMP+Cab Block, and the Dynamic Room Reverb Block (just so it's not totally dry).

Now, play your guitar and experiment with turning the amp knobs just like you would on a RW amp. When you get a pleasing sound, go to the Cab.

Experiment with changing the location of the Mic.

Drag it around, move it in and out, note the changes that occur.

Then experiment with changing the Mic entirely, noting how different Mics affect the sound.

Then experiment with changing the speaker. By now you'll have an idea what changing the Mic and Mic settings will do to the sound.

 

"BUT" you say, "That will take FOREVER! I want it to sound GREAT RIGHT NOW!"

Look at it this way - you tried the presets - they sucked.

You can either spend your time learning how to use your new toy, or you can spend your time on YouTube trying to find somebody with the same musical sensibilities as you, the same guitars, the same playback system - then not be able to get the same tones because it all sounds different on YT than it does ITRW.

 

The choice is yours - choose wisely, and HAVE FUN!

[gobygoo]

On 5/12/2023 at 2:06 AM, rd2rk said:

If you don't follow the instructions EXACTLY you'll probably brick your HXS and then you'll be back here crying and we'll all be laughing at you.

Not really, but you get the point.

Haha, fair enough. Anyway, I already updated my firmware. Running 3.60

On 5/12/2023 at 2:06 AM, rd2rk said:

Now, play your guitar and experiment with turning the amp knobs just like you would on a RW amp. When you get a pleasing sound, go to the Cab.

Experiment with changing the location of the Mic.

On 5/12/2023 at 2:06 AM, rd2rk said:

"BUT" you say, "That will take FOREVER! I want it to sound GREAT RIGHT NOW!"

Look at it this way - you tried the presets - they sucked.

You can either spend your time learning how to use your new toy, or you can spend your time on YouTube trying to find somebody with the same musical sensibilities as you, the same guitars, the same playback system - then not be able to get the same tones because it all sounds different on YT than it does ITRW.

Honestly, I think my problem is that there are so many parameters to play with, that I find myself meandering my way, and very quickly I get ear fatigue, and then everything sounds bad. I have no doubt the unit can sound great, but I was hoping to get at least one reference tone I liked quickly. The guy in this specific video is just doing some chords with a rock guitar, so I felt there should be good basis for comparison, but it sounds nothing like it. I think it's reasonable to look for videos of people dialing in sounds I liked to learn get a feel for it.
Perhaps there's a community library of presets of some sort, perhaps voted by the crowd?

Appreciate the help!

[rd2rk]

On 5/11/2023 at 11:20 PM, gobygoo said:

Perhaps there's a community library of presets of some sort, perhaps voted by the crowd?

 

 

On the L6 website. It's called Customtone.

Thousands of presets to try until you get ear fatigue.

You'll soon discover what most of us have, They all suck.

Good Luck!

[gobygoo]

Thanks man, appreciate the help! You were right. I tried the top rated/downloaded patches and they didn't work for me at all.

 

On 5/12/2023 at 2:06 AM, rd2rk said:

When you get a pleasing sound, go to the Cab.

Experiment with changing the location of the Mic.

Drag it around, move it in and out, note the changes that occur.

I did manage to dial in a nice high-ish gain tone with the PV Panama, and I've come to realize that the cab settings seems to make the most difference. Specifically, the mic placement seemed to be the biggest variable by far. so that was great advice!

 

I'm still struggling with dialing in a slightly overdriven strat sound, but I'm sure  can be achieved with patience.

I really only got this thing for a standalone rehearsals/live tool, so I'm sure going to test the patience of my band mates . Hope they don't kick me out :)

 

Thanks again, and happy to get any pointers for achieving good strat sounds.

[DunedinDragon]

Here's your first stop in getting a good tone and understanding the amp settings.  Jason Sadites has long been the goto reference guy for dialing in presets and understanding how to use different amps and effects on the Helix.  When it comes to a Strat sound slightly overdriven or clean my new favorite model is the Elsmley.  Here's Jason's overview of the Elmsley which should help you get started.  He literally has HUNDREDS of videos that can get you up to speed on anything Helix related.

 

 

 

[waymda]

On 5/12/2023 at 3:20 PM, gobygoo said:

Honestly, I think my problem is that there are so many parameters to play with, that I find myself meandering my way, and very quickly I get ear fatigue, and then everything sounds bad.

So yes, many parameters, so try to reduce the degrees of freedom (available choices).

 

Suggest pick an amp you know in real life and likewise a cab. Ideally somehting you know you like mic'd up and with which microphones. Then change settings for each compnenent to extremes so you hear what they do and how they interact, then make incremental changes from stock to get closer to what you want to hear. Its painstaking and boring, but helps you quickly learn what works for you and what doesn't and becomes applicable across other blocks.

 

And take breaks, because, yes, ear fatigue is very real.

[toddkc]

I think we need a little more information here.  What do you have going in to the stomp, and what do you have after the stomp?  What are using to hear the output?  Whenever I hear someone say they just can't dial in a good tone that is a huge red flag that either something about their setup, or a setting in the unit itself, is off.  I can make a new empty patch, select any default amp/cab block, add a reverb, and it sounds amazing with any guitar.  Is it instantly the exact tone I want?  Of course not, but the point is it still sounds great just doing that.  

[gobygoo]

On 5/12/2023 at 3:46 PM, waymda said:

Suggest pick an amp you know in real life and likewise a cab. Ideally somehting you know you like mic'd up and with which microphones. Then change settings for each compnenent to extremes so you hear what they do and how they interact, then make incremental changes from stock to get closer to what you want to hear.

This is part of my problem actually. Aside from a very cheap practice amp I used when I was younger, I've never owned an amp. I play almost exclusively with computers and PAs, so all these advanced amp terms and settings don't mean much to me. I am taking your advice to get a feel for how these settings sound and don't mess with too many at the same times. Luckily, I know what treble/mid/bass mean :)

 

On 5/12/2023 at 3:46 PM, waymda said:

And take breaks, because, yes, ear fatigue is very real.

Absolutely! 10 minutes of messing with presets and settings, with the worst "tone audition" type of licks, and I become sick of myself and my guitar :)

[gobygoo]

On 5/12/2023 at 4:06 PM, toddkc said:

I think we need a little more information here.  What do you have going in to the stomp, and what do you have after the stomp?  What are using to hear the output?

Currently, I'm connecting the stomp straight into an audio interface and out to a pair of monitors that I know I can get excellent sound out of through other means.
I know one "issue" is the fact that I'm using mono where most of the demos include stereo reverbs, but I'd like to keep it that way since I'm going to run the stomp through a PA most of the time.

 

On 5/12/2023 at 4:06 PM, toddkc said:

I can make a new empty patch, select any default amp/cab block, add a reverb, and it sounds amazing with any guitar

Can you give me an example, just so we have a frame of reference ? I could make that same patch, record, and post the result

[DunedinDragon]

Quite honestly from some of you responses and your history I'm not sure you really know what you're looking for, so you just audition and audition thinking you'll hit your "Ah Ha" setting but you end up burning yourself out.  The fact is, most of the stock amps these days are pretty good and only really need minor tweeks to get you something useable.  You might try just finding a song that has the tone similar to what you're looking for and listen to it closely.  How much drive it has, is it mids heavy or highs heavier and just select an amp and cab and try to simulate it.  You may not get it exact, but you may tweek it over time to get it better once you're playing it for real.

 

What you're going through is not unusual.  When I first got my Helix  7 years ago I spent a WHOLE lot more time meticulously adjusting it until I realized my audience really won't care or notice that much.  Now I can pretty much create a fresh, scratch preset in about 10 or 15 minutes.  I may adjust a few things over the next couple of days with it, but it won't take much.  So don't worry and don't get so obsessed.

[gobygoo]

On 5/12/2023 at 6:45 PM, DunedinDragon said:

Quite honestly from some of you responses and your history I'm not sure you really know what you're looking for, so you just audition and audition thinking you'll hit your "Ah Ha" setting but you end up burning yourself out.  The fact is, most of the stock amps these days are pretty good and only really need minor tweeks to get you something useable. 

What I'm looking for? Actually I have a pretty strong idea. I'm simply trying to replicate sounds I've achieved so far with other digital solutions, and I've been happy with. I purchased the HX stomp hoping to come close to these sounds, and not give up on portability. I have exact reference sounds that if I come reasonably close to, I'm happy.

I just don't have an intuition for the parameters just yet, so I guess this is why I'm struggling.

On 5/12/2023 at 6:45 PM, DunedinDragon said:

What you're going through is not unusual.  When I first got my Helix  7 years ago I spent a WHOLE lot more time meticulously adjusting it until I realized my audience really won't care or notice that much.  Now I can pretty much create a fresh, scratch preset in about 10 or 15 minutes.  I may adjust a few things over the next couple of days with it, but it won't take much.  So don't worry and don't get so obsessed.

Totally with you there. Honestly, I was hoping that Line6 would provide videos that cover wide array of guitar tones, walking through how to tweak one's way into achieving them. Like, "here's the tone, do you like it ? Here's how we achieved it". That would surely help with getting up to speed. But I'll take your advice. I'll take my time, enjoy what I can get from the stomp right now, not obsess about sounds, and I'm sure eventually I'll grow to love it. BTW, I'm absolutely blown away by Its practicality. Incredible!

[toddkc]

On 5/12/2023 at 8:15 AM, gobygoo said:

Can you give me an example, just so we have a frame of reference ? I could make that same patch, record, and post the result

 

Okay cool, you should definitely be able to get a good sound through monitors.  So, make a new empty patch, go to the input section and turn OFF gate and pad.  If you need them you can revisit later.  Then go over to an empty block, select a mono amp/cab, I suggest WhoWatt or Litigator.  Make sure you did amp AND cab.  Then add a mono reverb block, any of the dynamics will do, I prefer room or plate myself.  That should sound great right there.

[gobygoo]

On 5/13/2023 at 1:26 AM, toddkc said:

Okay cool, you should definitely be able to get a good sound through monitors.  So, make a new empty patch, go to the input section and turn OFF gate and pad.  If you need them you can revisit later.  Then go over to an empty block, select a mono amp/cab, I suggest WhoWatt or Litigator.  Make sure you did amp AND cab.  Then add a mono reverb block, any of the dynamics will do, I prefer room or plate myself.  That should sound great right there.

That helped a lot, thanks! It was good to get a recording going because listening to all the hard clipping made me realize that my input was configured for instrument rather than line level. That made a substantial improvement already. Silly me

The WhoWatt amp is nice clean, but didn't react well to adding gain IMO. I'm much less fussy with cleans anyway. The Litigator amp worked better with extra gain, And I can say I like the sound already. I tried to improve with EQ, but once I added some bass and drums, The EQ stopped making sense.

 

Here's the recording (strat bridge pickup). Obviously, without any post eq/leveling/effects or anything like that:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wg46yq7sg80gy4g/hx.mp3?dl=0
Does that sound like what you'd expect from this amp and settings ?

 

Anyway, at this point I feel like I've got over the hump of this new thing that I'm trying to make sense of, and I'm confident I'll enjoy it thoroughly for years to come.

So, thanks everyone for helping and being so friendly. Appreciate it!

[datacommando]

On 5/12/2023 at 7:17 PM, gobygoo said:

Honestly, I was hoping that Line6 would provide videos that cover wide array of guitar tones, walking through how to tweak one's way into achieving them. Like, "here's the tone, do you like it ? Here's how we achieved it". That would surely help with getting up to speed. B

Here ya go!

 

YouTube is crammed with instructional videos for this stuff.
 

Hope this helps/makes sense,

 

[waymda]

On 5/13/2023 at 7:00 PM, gobygoo said:

Here's the recording (strat bridge pickup). Obviously, without any post eq/leveling/effects or anything like that:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wg46yq7sg80gy4g/hx.mp3?dl=0
Does that sound like what you'd expect from this amp and settings ?

 

Well we don't know your settings, but yes that sounds like a strat through a litigator.

 

On 5/13/2023 at 7:00 PM, gobygoo said:

I tried to improve with EQ, but once I added some bass and drums, The EQ stopped making sense.

 

Not sure what you mean here - EQ on the stomp, in the DAW, on the amp model? Keeping in mind that mix EQ is about making space for sounds in the mix and helping the right bits 'poke out', what you think is a great tone solo'd is not always an even close to useable tone in a mix.

 

Jason Sadites has a huge range of videos that help getting good sounds, but you might find one of his most recent ones particularly useful 

 

[Schmalle]

A thing to notice it that there are two Brit P75 + cab blocks - one with a new cab and one with the legacy cab.

I like the old one better (the one in the video) in this case.

To match the new one with the legacy one I suggest to change the cab settings:

4x12 Blackback30, 57Dyn, 4.0, 2.00", 45°, 80Hz, 5.7kHz

I saved this as user default settings for this amp.

[gobygoo]

On 5/14/2023 at 2:10 AM, waymda said:

Well we don't know your settings, but yes that sounds like a strat through a litigator.

Thanks for confirming. These are the defaults settings for that amp+Cab, except for added a little gain, and the stock settings of dynamic plate reverb. It's not my favorite sound ever, but for sure a good starting point that I can use as a benchmark.

 

On 5/14/2023 at 2:10 AM, waymda said:

Not sure what you mean here - EQ on the stomp, in the DAW, on the amp model? Keeping in mind that mix EQ is about making space for sounds in the mix and helping the right bits 'poke out', what you think is a great tone solo'd is not always an even close to useable tone in a mix.

I was actually making fun of myself there :) I meant, I added the EQ in the stomp, but then I realized my tweaking made everything worse in the mix, so I dropped it.

Totally agreed on the mix vs standalone sound. This is why I always try to add some bass and drums when I'm tweaking.

On 5/14/2023 at 2:10 AM, waymda said:

but you might find one of his most recent ones particularly useful 

This is exactly the type of Instructional material I'm looking for. It starts with stock settings so I can follow along and sound virtually identical to the video, while gaining intuition on a specific parameter. BTW, I already noticed that the cab and mic placement are so powerful that the other stuff is almost unneeded. Thanks!

[toddkc]

On 5/14/2023 at 7:30 AM, gobygoo said:

Thanks for confirming. These are the defaults settings for that amp+Cab, except for added a little gain, and the stock settings of dynamic plate reverb. It's not my favorite sound ever, but for sure a good starting point that I can use as a benchmark.

If you don't think that sounds good I think something is wrong with your monitors.  That sounds exactly like I would expect (amazing) and I would 100% gig with that as my foundation.  That may not be the exact gain level you are looking for, but your original issue was that you were having trouble dialing in a decent tone....well, ya did it :)

[craiganderton]

Like most of the other here, I agree that the majority of the sound is in the cab, amp, and mic. For me, after that comes EQ (before the amp, after the cab, or both) for shaping the sound further. Here's a brief excerpt from my Helix book you might find useful. It's the procedure I use when getting to know the new amps and cabs that Line 6 drops into our laps from time to time :) 

 

Dealing with Option Overload

Helix offers so many options, it’s easy to be tempted into thinking you’re just a few tweaks away from getting an even better sound. But avoid becoming too distracted. Given Helix’s sheer number of amps, miking options, cabinets, effects, and more, the possible combinations are at least in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. This is especially true because as you try different cab and virtual miking options, the results may not be consistent—a perfect mic choice for one amp might not be the best choice for a different amp.

 

If you’re prone to option overload, try the following steps to narrow down your choices. This procedure is just one possible strategy:

 

1. Pick an Amp+Cab that sounds close to what you want.

2. Try out different cabs, and choose the one that sounds best.

3. Next, try different Mics, then choose your favorite.

4. Edit the cab’s Distance and Position (and with Legacy Cabs, Early Reflections) for the best sound.

5. Now, run through the amp options to see if one sounds better.

 

Avoid the temptation to experiment further—if you have a good sound, start playing! Although musicians have specific opinions about sound and tone, the average listener does not. People want to hear music…so give the people what they want. They’re interested in the notes you play, whether they enhance the song, and if the tone is pleasing.

 

P.S. You didn't mention if you're doing front panel editing, or editing with HX Edit. If you're tweaking via the front panel, you'll find HX Edit makes life infinitely easier!

  

[brue58ski]

Speaking of Mr. Anderton here, in case you didn't notice, he has a link in his post to his PDF book that's for sale. With that book, and the Jason Sadites videos, you should have all of the info you need, really, to get a good foundation. At the very least, enough homework to last you awhile. And, the good thing about the book being PDF is it gets updated after every firmware upgrade and you get to download each of them for no extra charge. It's totally worth it. Also check this YouTube out.

 

 

Not for the info but the music at the beginning. EVERY guitar sound you hear are one of his patches all of which are made for the Stomp. I think they provide a good base. Just remember, the guitar's he uses influence the patches sound a bit. The link he provides to the patches in the YouTube video is inaccurate, try this one

 

https://www.rhettshull.com/products/hx-stomp-rhetts-amps-v2

 

It has clips of the patches as well. It is a little pricier than many so it's up to you whether it's worth it. But he has many how to videos you could check out before plunking down your hard earned money for the patches.

That kind of leads me to one other thing. The input impedance can have a bigger influence on the sound than you would think. Try messing with that as well.

 

Good Luck.

[craiganderton]

On 5/16/2023 at 6:54 AM, brue58ski said:

And, the good thing about the book being PDF is it gets updated after every firmware upgrade and you get to download each of them for no extra charge. It's totally worth it.

 

Thanks for the props! I'm about halfway through the 1.3 update. A couple fine points, though: 

• Updates aren't necessarily just about new firmware. For example, this time around I did a deep dive into the 3-parameter distortions, and how the Tone parameter affects the sound. It was surprisingly revealing in terms of choosing which distortions would be the best candidates for particular presets.
• The "point" updates are free (like software going from 2.0 to 2.1), but if it an eBook goes to a new edition with substantial changes (like software going from version 2.0 to version 3.0), owners of existing editions get the new one for half off. FWIW I don't see that happening with the Helix book any time soon, though. Line 6's steady flow of incremental updates works well with the "point" update approach.

[craiganderton]

It's worth noting that it was never easy to get a great guitar sound, even with physical amps in a big studio. Room sound, mic choice, mic placement, parts of the cab that vibrated, the effects that were added during the mix, even issues like different speakers in a cab sounding different all complicated matters. So, it's not surprising that dialing in a sound you love on an amp sim is a little complicated. But the good news: You can save it as a preset!!! :)

[gobygoo]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:50 PM, toddkc said:

If you don't think that sounds good I think something is wrong with your monitors.  That sounds exactly like I would expect (amazing) and I would 100% gig with that as my foundation.  That may not be the exact gain level you are looking for, but your original issue was that you were having trouble dialing in a decent tone....well, ya did it :)

I think it sounds good, and especially given how easy it was to achieve it. The only issue, I think it could react better when I hit the strings aggressively. It's feels like there's too much hard clipping going on. But I think I already managed to improve on that.

And really I'm moving the goal post at this point. I've become greedy and I'm looking for a great recording sound, which is not why I bought the Stomp to begin with. So I'm thrilled with what I got so far with the unit. Decent tone ? Got that for sure :)

Honestly, for the size and price, this is a phenomenal, seemingly unrivaled product. And I got the Helix plugin for free! I only regret it took me so long to buy it.

Thanks for helping make the step in the right direction!

 

On 5/16/2023 at 8:43 AM, craiganderton said:

Avoid the temptation to experiment further—if you have a good sound, start playing! Although musicians have specific opinions about sound and tone, the average listener does not. People want to hear music…so give the people what they want. They’re interested in the notes you play, whether they enhance the song, and if the tone is pleasing.

Absolutely. This is probably the single most important principle in my case at least. Once I start the cycle of tweaking/playing a terrible unispired lick/tweaking, after a minute, I simply start hating the sound of an electric guitar altogether :)

 

On 5/16/2023 at 8:43 AM, craiganderton said:

P.S. You didn't mention if you're doing front panel editing, or editing with HX Edit. If you're tweaking via the front panel, you'll find HX Edit makes life infinitely easier!

Oh yeah, I barely touched the unit at first, but later I started realizing that I have to get acquainted with the onboard editing when I'm outside the house. for the size of the display, the onboard UI is actually nice.