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New Helix 2


tomaszcieslik
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You will hear nothing concrete about that. Line 6 says nothing until they are really close. No matter what it is for several reasons. It's been said that the current Helix has AT LEAST 1 more year in it. And they just put out a new pedal that is still using the current effects models. So even if a new one were to come out, the change would probably be more about haveing more DSP and maybe an amp capture type thing. But I think any new Helix (it has been already been stated the next iteration would not be have the word Helix in it's name) will probably still use the current amp/cab models maybe tweaked a little.

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Next year... since they already came out with the "flux" control for the HX One pedal, and are offering new upgraded toeswitches, as well as the micro-USB plug. 

 

I'm pretty convinced it'll happen next year. 

 

It'll probably have the touch screen, and just have more power.  Just like they did with Pod HD 500-> Pod HD 500x.

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On 10/27/2023 at 10:31 AM, theElevators said:

Next year... since they already came out with the "flux" control for the HX One pedal, and are offering new upgraded toeswitches, as well as the micro-USB plug. 

 

I'm pretty convinced it'll happen next year. 

 

It'll probably have the touch screen, and just have more power.  Just like they did with Pod HD 500-> Pod HD 500x.

 

i do like that flux control idea. I wish it could be implemented on the Helix.

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On 10/27/2023 at 10:31 AM, theElevators said:

Next year... since they already came out with the "flux" control for the HX One pedal, and are offering new upgraded toeswitches, as well as the micro-USB plug. 

 

I'm pretty convinced it'll happen next year. 

 

It'll probably have the touch screen, and just have more power.  Just like they did with Pod HD 500-> Pod HD 500x.

 

Like the HD500, they did they same with the XT. They called it the X3 and it was two XT's parrallel to each other in one unit.

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On 10/27/2023 at 12:15 PM, tomaszcieslik said:

The new one should have a touch screen (like in Fender Tone Master Pro), Variax input (not like in Stomp HX!) and a mobile application. 

 

Well... I'm not interested in a touch screen or a mobile app and my lower cost LT already has the Variax input. I'll need to see something more enticing. 

 

On 10/27/2023 at 12:38 PM, brue58ski said:

 

i do like that flux control idea. I wish it could be implemented on the Helix.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the next firmware update. You can already assign parameter changes to any footswitch and make that switch latch or momentary. They just need to add in the transition options that "flux" includes. I use my external expression pedal for such changes, so it's already a manual "flux" control. 

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On 10/28/2023 at 1:08 PM, codamedia said:

They just need to add in the transition options that "flux" includes. I use my external expression pedal for such changes, so it's already a manual "flux" control. 


My thoughts exactly!

 

From the promo text on the Line 6 site:

 

FLUX CONTROLLER

Flux enables you to adjust multiple effect parameters simultaneously over a predetermined period of time—all with a single footswitch press.

 

Also, judging from the short demo videos available on there, not much different to what you can already do with an expression pedal. For example the Simple Delay using Flux to decrease Delay Time while increasing Feedback and Mix. Yeah, really, surely we already have “Flux” albeit as a manual (foot) controlled option.

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On 10/27/2023 at 1:15 PM, tomaszcieslik said:

When will the new Helix be available? After so many years, I would be happy to replace the old one. The new one should have a touch screen (like in Fender Tone Master Pro), Variax input (not like in Stomp HX!) and a mobile application. What else would you like?

 

We'd all have better luck trying to predict earthquakes. The answer is always the same: Nobody outside of the team at L6 that makes these decisions knows what's coming, or when... and they ain't talking. So hurry up and wait... just like the rest of us.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/28/2023 at 6:13 AM, SaschaFranck said:

A touchscreen is making barely any sense on a floor unit. Give me a mobile editor and I'm just fine.

 

 

I don't think that's a perfect solution either.  I have an Eventide H9 Max.  Editing on the iPad is amazingly good.  A way better interface than HX-Edit if you ask me.  It's just more intuitive.  The quality of the sounds Eventide makes are better than Helix too IMO but the device itself is quite cumbersome to use from the physical controls.  So much so that you pretty much HAVE to use a mobile device to edit programs or even switch from one program to the next.  That would be okay but the problem is BlueTooth.  If a connection is not transmitting data it will un-pair in about 60 to 90 seconds or so.  Then it takes about 60 to 90 seconds or so to re-pair because you can't just re-pair, you have to forget device and then find new.  It's a real time waster and it is the primary reason I hardly ever use it.  If Helix was going to go wireless it would need to be WiFi in order to be useful, not BlueTooth and I'm pretty sure that would mean Helix would have to serve as a hub or router for the mobile device to connect with.  I say that because I can directly connect two devices (computer and phone) over BlueTooth but I have never been able to directly connect them over WiFi.  I'm no computer tech so I could be missing something but I don't think so.

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That is of no importance to me at all.  Not one little bit.  Sorry.

It never even occurred to me and now that it has been brought to my attention ... it still does not occur to me.

I'm not even remotely curious to know what an AC30 preamp would sound like with a Twin Reverb power section played into a Phil Jones 9x5 cab.

That kind of experimentation has zero appeal for me.

 

The very most important thing of all is improved touch sensitivity, dynamics, realism and faithfulness to the original, not oddball Frankenstein creations that never were.

No.  No.  No.

 

two_cents_small.jpg

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On 11/10/2023 at 5:35 PM, MGW-Alberta said:

I don't think that's a perfect solution either.  I have an Eventide H9 Max.  Editing on the iPad is amazingly good.  A way better interface than HX-Edit if you ask me.  It's just more intuitive.  The quality of the sounds Eventide makes are better than Helix too IMO but the device itself is quite cumbersome to use from the physical controls.  So much so that you pretty much HAVE to use a mobile device to edit programs or even switch from one program to the next.

 

I don't want this to be either/or. I want great on-unit editing options *and* a mobile application. And why not? It should be possible easily.

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On 11/13/2023 at 2:48 PM, SaschaFranck said:

 

How is that even possible? Would anyone force you to use them? No. So how could they turn you off?

If these would be priority, a pc editor would be secondary, or even never to happen. For me it is a turn off.

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On 11/13/2023 at 7:48 AM, SaschaFranck said:

 

How is that even possible? Would anyone force you to use them? No. So how could they turn you off?

Only if the design was optimized for touch screen in a way that made the UI more difficult for those NOT using a touchscreen. Which can happen, though given Line6's UI success w/ Helix, I doubt they'd backslide in this way.

 

I could use more DSP power just for "all in one" presets, but other than that I can't think of what else I'd want in "Helix 2". Of course, I didn't know what I needed before I got a Helix, so I'm willing to let Line6 show me what I need again. ;-)

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We have to remember that despite all the technical wizardry packed into Helix, the actual hardware unit is first and foremost generally a foot controller, it is designed to be robust and to sit on the floor, where it is stepped on and tripped over with varying degrees of intended or unintended force by varying styles of dirty footwear.
 

Yes there is a need to have a clear and visible real-time indication of what settings are selected / in use and what they are set at on the hardware unit itself and to some degree to be able to adjust these directly on the unit, but in my experience this is purely used as a backup should I have the need to adjust on the fly and have no other device connected to run the HX Edit software.
 

In general, when I am creating & testing or editing my patches I have no interest in grovelling around on my knees down at floor level in the dark or relative dark when I could be stood up or sat down, guitar still strapped on, alongside a separate better and bigger screen with HX Edit software on a device that is specially designed to operate software. It’s just easier, quicker and has more visible options.

 

So I see no real value in adding a touchscreen to the hardware unit itself, I’d rather Line6 concentrated its efforts on providing up to date and robust mobile software, I.e. a long overdue mobile app version of HX Edit that I can use on my iPad or iPhone which already has a touchscreen, same will apply for Android users I guess. Why spend time and money creating something that most users already have.
 

The world has moved on, it is now very much the norm to have hardware devices supported by mobile software apps. Though not as convenient or flexible, full PC applications are still necessary for studio setups where a PC with a larger screen is preferable but I don’t think Line6 can continue to avoid the mobile app for Helix. I have tried the HX Edit software on a Windows tablet and gave up on it, it just didn’t work that well, perhaps because it wasn’t a top of the range Microsoft tablet but let’s face it Microsoft are way behind the curve in the mobile tablet world and Line6 should really be embracing iOS & Android devices if they want to continue to lead the pack.
 

Helix is a package predominantly made up of a great piece of physical hardware and some very clever software engineering and I feel that perhaps a clearer separation between these is what is needed, where each is built with its primary purpose in mind. Trying to cover all aspects of the software control manually via buttons in the hardware unit is in my opinion now pretty counterproductive and I feel holding Helix back.

 

Such an approach, might then enable developer headspace to work on the stuff that sets Helix apart such as keeping ahead on sound quality and innovation to bring us real game-changer functionality; such as…

 
AI driven tone creation workflow for song part / artist rig matching - to help get you in the ball-park with your own rig. 

e.g. enter for instance the song and artist and guitar part you want to get the sound of, then enter the details of your own rig (available guitar/s, amp/cab/frfr, external pedals etc), then enter some generic details of the space where you’ll be playing this and if that is with a band or not…

Then Helix does its magic - and either builds and presents you with a suggested preset, provides you with a specification for a preset, ie what blocks and what settings for each it recommends you setup or Helix guides you through the building of that preset. Note that if smart, there could be room for this being an educational experience to some degree?
Ok I know this is for lazy users like me and likely abhorrent to some diehard musos, but let’s face it, we aren’t all sound engineers or tech geeks and we don’t all have hours of spare time to try and figure out the myriad of options to getting a certain sound that we think we have in our heads. Nevertheless I also want to benefit from the quality of sound and range of options available via Helix and whilst I like the process of building presets, I often find I spend way too long not quite getting the sound I’d hoped for and not knowing why, trying others presets (paid for and via Custom tone) that also don’t quite get there either for varying plausible reasons, when I probably ought to be spending my time actually practicing those songs.

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On 11/13/2023 at 2:55 PM, arislaf said:

If these would be priority, a pc editor would be secondary, or even never to happen. For me it is a turn off.

 

How so? There's way cheaper devices such as the NUX Amp Academy (just to name one, but in fact there's sevaral) offering editors for Windows, macOS, iOS and Android. There's also Boss. A big brand such as Yamaha should follow suit

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On 11/13/2023 at 3:13 PM, jester700 said:

Which can happen, though given Line6's UI success w/ Helix, I doubt they'd backslide in this way.

 

It'd be *zero* of a problem to add a mobile editor to all devices of the HX family already, why should it be an issue for future hardware?

Mobile editors add tremendous value for those often rehearsing and gigging. It's just so much easier to edit things without having to crawl on the floor.

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On 11/13/2023 at 9:28 AM, steve_marsden1 said:


AI driven tone creation workflow for song part / artist rig matching - to help get you in the ball-park with your own rig. 

e.g. enter for instance the song and artist and guitar part you want to get the sound of, then enter the details of your own rig (available guitar/s, amp/cab/frfr, external pedals etc), then enter some generic details of the space where you’ll be playing this and if that is with a band or not…

Then Helix does its magic - and either builds and presents you with a suggested preset, provides you with a specification for a preset, ie what blocks and what settings for each it recommends you setup or Helix guides you through the building of that preset. Note that if smart, there could be room for this being an educational experience to some degree?
Ok I know this is for lazy users like me and likely abhorrent to some diehard musos, but let’s face it, we aren’t all sound engineers or tech geeks and we don’t all have hours of spare time to try and figure out the myriad of options to getting a certain sound that we think we have in our heads. Nevertheless I also want to benefit from the quality of sound and range of options available via Helix and whilst I like the process of building presets, I often find I spend way too long not quite getting the sound I’d hoped for and not knowing why, trying others presets (paid for and via Custom tone) that also don’t quite get there either for varying plausible reasons, when I probably ought to be spending my time actually practicing those songs.

I think you're overstating or not understanding what AI is about.  It's not a cure-all for developing presets because each person and each rig configuration varies and that entails a certain level of subjectivity about what works best in any given situation.  AI in this type of scenario is more about learning personal preferences and the environment in which a preset would need to operate.  Taking an AI "picture" of a sound doesn't have enough information to adequately create through AI the same behaviors across all possible configurations given the various things that might have happened in creating that sound in a studio.

 

I'm not saying it couldn't be a helpful tool in aiding people in developing presets, but it requires at least as much of your time in teaching an AI system what best fits you as it would in learning how to do it yourself.  Without a personalized approach to teaching AI, you'll get what someone else thinks is best, and it may not match what you envision or how it will sound in your unique situation and it may or may not be that close to what you think it should be.  I could see using something like that in providing a bare bones preset that I could tweak to make it more to what I need.  But that will still require the user's expertise.

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On 11/13/2023 at 3:44 PM, DunedinDragon said:

I think you're overstating or not understanding what AI is about.  It's not a cure-all for developing presets because each person and each rig configuration varies and that entails a certain level of subjectivity about what works best in any given situation.  AI in this type of scenario is more about learning personal preferences and the environment in which a preset would need to operate.  Taking an AI "picture" of a sound doesn't have enough information to adequately create through AI the same behaviors across all possible configurations given the various things that might have happened in creating that sound in a studio.

 

I'm not saying it couldn't be a helpful tool in aiding people in developing presets, but it requires at least as much of your time in teaching an AI system what best fits you as it would in learning how to do it yourself.  Without a personalized approach to teaching AI, you'll get what someone else thinks is best, and it may not match what you envision or how it will sound in your unique situation and it may or may not be that close to what you think it should be.  I could see using something like that in providing a bare bones preset that I could tweak to make it more to what I need.  But that will still require the user's expertise.

I know enough about AI and machine learning to know that it is perfectly possible to use what is readily available in the public domain now to return a pretty good suggestion of the right rig and settings that will get you in the ball park of what you are looking for, and that’s the point, to give a good starting point.  I’m not expecting it to be exact in any way shape or form and I’m not expecting it can achieve something for every song or version of a song that’s out there. I do however expect it to be able to give a good enough base suggestion, especially with some seeding in the machine learning by Line6.
 

If you use Chat GPT now on MS Edge, you get fairly impressive results that draw on data that is already there as public knowledge, ie. What guitar, amp and pedals a particular player used for a particular part of a song. I’ve even got suggestions back on settings for particular effects blocks in Helix. The trick is asking the right question with the right word hooks in the search engine.
 

I’m merely suggesting that this could be taken a bit further with the input of suitable experts and Line6 engineers who are experts in their own right, that is all.  How far they could get with this, I don’t know but I’d be very disappointed if they couldn’t come up with something better than my simple web searches and presumably over time, this is only going to get better as more data gets added into the reference source.
 

Yes catering for a users rig might be a bit far fetched but the data about a given rigs components and how they each affect tone will be all there, so it is not beyond the wit of an expert to work out how to compensate to some degree for, say, a les Paul when a Strat was actually used in an original recording. It won’t be right of course but for that user it might be as close as they’re ever going to get without the Strat and might well need to use some wacky settings on EQ and/or other effects blocks to achieve this.

I wouldn’t underestimate the potential for all this AI stuff, the limiting factor is the ambition of those that could leverage its opportunities.

If we’re talking game-changing USP’s over competitors, then Line6 needs ambition.

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On 11/13/2023 at 10:47 PM, steve_marsden1 said:

I don’t know but presumably over time this is only going to get better as more data gets added into the reference source.

 

Defenitely. I think AI will very soon play a much more important role in our lives than many (and it's an astonishingly high amount of people) folks seem to be able to imagine.

In not too many years from now, it's absolutely likely that "Hey, AmpModelerGPT, here's the signal I have, please do your best to match it to the tone of <famous player XYZ>" will be reality. We have Match EQs already, they could possibly be AI-enhanced already.

What we'd further need would be

- A tool to "demix" songs. Those tools exist already and they're partially coming up with jawdropping results (the new Beatles single anyone?).

- A tool to create an amp "capture" just based on some source and (possibly extracted) target material. This may take a while and the neural network learning might take several hours for a while to come, but still, it's pretty much invedently to happen (and not in 10 years from now but rather 2-3 or so).

- A tool to do spatial analysis, so the AI knows what delays/reverbs to add. This might be tricky at first, but it should be good enough to get you into the ballpark pretty soon, so all you'd have to do is some finetunings.

- A tool to analyze modulations and what not. This might in fact be the trickiest part for a while to come, especially in case modulations include filtering, dynamics and what not. But IMO it'll come one day, though.

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On 11/13/2023 at 10:15 PM, SaschaFranck said:

 

Defenitely. I think AI will very soon play a much more important role in our lives than many (and it's an astonishingly high amount of people) folks seem to be able to imagine.

In not too many years from now, it's absolutely likely that "Hey, AmpModelerGPT, here's the signal I have, please do your best to match it to the tone of <famous player XYZ>" will be reality. We have Match EQs already, they could possibly be AI-enhanced already.

What we'd further need would be

- A tool to "demix" songs. Those tools exist already and they're partially coming up with jawdropping results (the new Beatles single anyone?).

- A tool to create an amp "capture" just based on some source and (possibly extracted) target material. This may take a while and the neural network learning might take several hours for a while to come, but still, it's pretty much invedently to happen (and not in 10 years from now but rather 2-3 or so).

- A tool to do spatial analysis, so the AI knows what delays/reverbs to add. This might be tricky at first, but it should be good enough to get you into the ballpark pretty soon, so all you'd have to do is some finetunings.

- A tool to analyze modulations and what not. This might in fact be the trickiest part for a while to come, especially in case modulations include filtering, dynamics and what not. But IMO it'll come one day, though.

Yeah we’re on the same wavelength here I think in terms of the potential, as I said it is a matter of ambition and unfortunately budgets! I have no doubt on the former with respect to the engineers at Line6 but they’ll have to toe some money related line too. But if they stick with their excellent ‘build on what you got’ approach as done over several years with Helix, it’s definitely an approach they could take.

 

Another potential feature idea I thought some of us could benefit from with all this emerging AI capability is to find a way of ‘helping’ us overcome our good old friend Fletcher Munson, again recognising it’s not an exact science with multiple variables etc. by just getting something in the right ball park of migrating a patch created at low volume at home / in the studio to one that works in a band mix at a venue of a certain size in either band practice or live use.
 

Again should be doable to a degree, to get in the right ball park based on a set of entered parameters.
 

When you’re hiring a practice room by the hour you want to spend as much time practicing, not faffing around for ages getting the sound right.
 

There’s so many opinions already on line about how best to do this with EQ adjustments etc and yes so many variables that will affect it but some of that knowledge is gold to an intelligent machine learned AI solution if tapped into in the right way I’m sure.

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On 11/15/2023 at 12:48 AM, datacommando said:


Hey,

 

Not exactly NEW! 

 

More a variation on an old theme.

 

 

7468FD7C-D6F6-4D12-9B02-567603379531.jpeg


It’s kind of ironic when we’re all discussing touchscreens, mobile apps, flux control, more DSP, AI, amp modelling, better screen graphics etc. etc. and none of us thought about a simple colour change!

 

This kind of feels like a last throw of the dice before something big but then I can’t imagine they’re ready to jump to Helix 2 for at least another year yet, but who knows! Perhaps if they release a glass or crystal encrusted version, that will be the sign - The Helix’s swan song. 

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TBH, I always found those new and "limited" colors to be quite an absurd thing, but each to their own.

OTOH, the fact that they're still releasing new designs (well, ok, "skins" rather than designs), might be indicating that there's still quite some years of life in the platform.

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On 11/15/2023 at 9:25 AM, steve_marsden1 said:

and none of us thought about a simple colour change!


Well, as I said - not exactly new.

 

The image I posted was from the Line 6 promo for Limited Edition colours launched at NAMM 2019.

 

Granted, the Platinum version is a new release listed on the current Line 6 product page.

 

The idea of adding “skins” to the hardware has been around for a long time, IIRC, the initial idea was produced by a certain Mr. Chad Boston who runs the Helix Family FarceBuk group. Thousands of unique variations out there.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

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On 11/15/2023 at 11:24 AM, datacommando said:


Well, as I said - not exactly new.

 

The image I posted was from the Line 6 promo for Limited Edition colours launched at NAMM 2019.

 

Granted, the Platinum version is a new release listed on the current Line 6 product page.

 

The idea of adding “skins” to the hardware has been around for a long time, IIRC, the initial idea was produce by a certain Mr. Chad Boston who runs the Helix Family FarceBuk group. Thousands of unique variations out there.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

It makes perfect sense, I was merely picking up on the irony / timing of getting an email covering the Helix platinum edition launch when all of us are to varying degrees hyped up with expectations for the next Helix version 3.7 / 4.0 or whatever it will be whilst also searching in vain for some kind of sign or veiled clarification of what might come in a successor to the Helix.  It made me laugh and wonder if they’re having fun teasing us all!

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IMO... there will not be a successor to the Helix, just another addition to the HX line.

 

When nobody expects it they are simply going to come out with a new model... "HX <insert clever name here>" with all the features the masses keep asking for. Touchscreen, smaller form factor, more horsepower, etc... etc....  

 

They've been releasing scaled back versions of the Helix regularly... HX Effects, HX Stomp, HX Stomp XL and now the HX One. Eventually there will be a "ramped up" model.  

 

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On 11/15/2023 at 1:01 PM, codamedia said:

IMO... there will not be a successor to the Helix, just another addition to the HX line.

 

When nobody expects it they are simply going to come out with a new model... "HX <insert clever name here>" with all the features the masses keep asking for. Touchscreen, smaller form factor, more horsepower, etc... etc....  

 

They've been releasing scaled back versions of the Helix regularly... HX Effects, HX Stomp, HX Stomp XL and now the HX One. Eventually there will be a "ramped up" model.  

 

Yeah good point, that makes a lot of sense given it’s not really that long go they clarified the Helix / HX product architecture was designed in a way to enable it to evolve around a core. I kind of hope you’re right in some ways, as long as this architecture has the capability to expand to deliver beyond what is emerging from its competitors.

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/13/2023 at 10:44 AM, SaschaFranck said:

 

It'd be *zero* of a problem to add a mobile editor to all devices of the HX family already, why should it be an issue for future hardware?

Mobile editors add tremendous value for those often rehearsing and gigging. It's just so much easier to edit things without having to crawl on the floor.

BT and Wifi support require hardware. IDK if the 9-10 year old Helix has either of those components, as they were not as prevalent way back when the Helix first came out. They can do a lot with software but the hardware is set in stone until they make changes for the "H2". So, if the Helix doesn't have Wifi or Blu Tooth now, it's not going to until a new hardware unit comes out.

I've been toying with the idea of getting one. I've had the PODHD500X for a few years now, and I really have no need to replace it other than G A S, so my concern is dropping almost $2k on something that will be replaced/replaceable within a year. It's the catch 22. Do I buy a piece of 10 year old tech, know what market trends are? Or do I keep stalling out for another 12-18 months, just to find out that I should have just went ahead and pulled the trigger when I originally wanted to because it didn't get/isn't getting replaced? (IDK about isn't. Eventually they are going to release a new flagship pedal board type system.)

It's happened to me so many times where I bought a piece of gear and the new version comes out within 6 months - 1 year. Sometimes even less. Like when I bought an Oxygen keyboard just before they re-released them with drum pads. Had I known M-Audio were releasing an updated version, I would have waited 3 months to get that instead, but I got stuck with it because it was just barely too old to return/exchange.

That was like $130 and it hurt. I don't want to have that same experience with a $2k piece of gear.

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