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Is an effect that appears under both 'stereo' and 'mono' the same block, or different? I want to have a block that 'forces' mono (as in dual mono) out of L/R outputs


johnwnyc
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For reasons that are too boring to get into, I want to force dual mono outputs through my left and right outputs.

 

I want to have a failsafe final block that is mono.

 

My two questions are:

— If an effect appears under both stereo and mono, are they separate iterations of the effect? i.e. Stereo Volume and Mono Volume? (See picture)

— Can I effectively use the Volume block to create and end-of-chain mono block?

stereo-mono.jpg

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I know this doesn't directly answer your question, but...

 

Do you want this all the time or do you want it only on a preset basis? If you want it all the time you could do it with a cable adapter. Connect a Y-splitter cable to the 1/4" L/Mono output (no cable in the R output) and then connect the two Y cable ends to your output device. Each of the Y paths will carry a mono signal.

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Reason for mono and stereo blocks:

1. mono blocks (delay, chorus, etc) simply do not give you a mono delay/chorus effect.  Left and right channels will be identical.

2. stereo blocks (delay, chorus, etc) give you a different sound in left/right channels.  For example stereo ping-pong delay is that you hear the note, then repeats on left, then right.

3. due to laws of physics, stereo effects with hard panning will sound completely different in terms of their balance compared with you running the same signal in mono.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panning_law

 

For effects such as compressor, volume, etc:

1. If you have a bunch of stereo effects in your chain, if you follow those up with a mono volume block, then your signal turns to mono.

2. If you want to retain stereo sound, and at the end of your chain add a volume pedal, then use the stereo equivalent.

 

So that's really all there is to it.  Some blocks work and sound differently whether they are mono or stereo versions.  For example, there's no such thing as a mono ping-pong delay, because it's just delay that doesn't have any panning of the delayed notes.  And for blocks that do not create any stereo effects by themselves, their stereo versions simply preserve the stereo signal that is going into them.  You can think of a stereo volume pedal as a left-channel volume pedal and a right-channel volume pedal glued together. 

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Thanks. So is this a correct statement? The Volume blocks in the 'stereo' and 'mono' pulldowns preserve the stereo or mono chains, respectively.

 

But I still have a question about whether it matters if you use the block from the 'Mono' or 'Stereo' section of the effects list, because the names of the effects themselves don't change.

 

i.e. are these statements correct? Imagine you have only two blocks in your path:

  1. Stereo Delay > Volume block taken from the Mono section = Mono signals out of L/R
  2. Stereo Delay > Volume block taken from the Stereo section = Stereo signal out of L/R
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On 1/24/2024 at 10:56 AM, johnwnyc said:
  1. Stereo Delay > Volume block taken from the Mono section = Mono signals out of L/R
  2. Stereo Delay > Volume block taken from the Stereo section = Stereo signal out of L/R

correct

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On 1/24/2024 at 11:23 AM, theElevators said:

correct

 

Thanks. I really hope they devise a name system or at least an icon-based system for this. It's sort of a mistake of Design 101 to have two very different things called by the same name.

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Fwiw, back when I was using a Helix Floor (I downgraded to an HX Stomp), I was always inserting a mono effect as the last thing in the signal chain, simply because I wanted to be able to also use stereo FX mixed to mono (such as ping pong delays that don't exist in mono), because my live business is all strictly mono.

There should be an output setting allowing you to run dual mono without having to waste a block (which I simply can't afford on any of my HX Stomp patches).

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On 1/25/2024 at 7:14 AM, theElevators said:

Here's a caveat: the mono block at the end has to be turned on.  A bypassed mono block at the end doesn't mix down the signal to mono.  Pretty sure.....

Now I'm gonna have to test that. For a while I was having issues with patches before realising I'd dropped mono gain blocks at the end instead of stereo (I run dual amp setups). I don't do it anymore, but now you have me wondering if they were all turned on when they caused the issue.

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On 1/24/2024 at 10:30 AM, johnwnyc said:

I really hope they devise a name system or at least an icon-based system for this. It's sort of a mistake of Design 101 to have two very different things called by the same name.

 

Line 6 already sub-divides them into folders which (IMO) is much cleaner than cluttering a single folder with two of everything with the mono/stereo suffix added to each name. 

 

When creating a chain.... as soon as you use a stereo effect you need to stay stereo the rest of the way. Any MONO effect (after the stereo effects) will collapse the entire chain back to mono. If you plan on collapsing to mono, then just use mono effects to begin with unless the model doesn't exist in mono. 

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On 1/24/2024 at 9:14 PM, theElevators said:

Here's a caveat: the mono block at the end has to be turned on.  A bypassed mono block at the end doesn't mix down the signal to mono.  Pretty sure.....

 

That's true. Not a biggie in case you just use a volume block and leave it at unitiy gain. Needs pretty much no CPU, doesn't affect the sound.

Should still be possible to get dual mono signals from the Helix without adding a block.

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