Please ensure Javascript is enabled for purposes of website accessibility Jump to content

Assign volume knob to the L/R 1/4" outputs?


trhx
 Share

Recommended Posts

Is it possible to assign either knob to the L/R outputs? I'm sending the XLRs direct to PA, and the headphone output to my second IEM rig input. The mixer aux is connected to the first IEM input, so I can blend and balance the volumes between full band and my guitar as needed.

 

That's working fine, but I would prefer to run the second IEM line from the Left Mono 1/4" output instead of the headphone TRS output. I've tried various combos of the knob assignments in the Global Settings>Ins/Outs, but no dice. I realize I can change the output from Line to instrument, but the knob volume control is what I really need.

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When asking for assistance it helps to specify which Helix you are using. On my Helix Floor:

 

Ins/Outs>Volume Knob Controls=1/4"

 

I believe that this works the same way on the LT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/3/2024 at 11:24 PM, rd2rk said:

When asking for assistance it helps to specify which Helix you are using. On my Helix Floor:

 

Ins/Outs>Volume Knob Controls=1/4"

 

I believe that this works the same way on the LT.

Sorry, totally missed your response. Helix Floor. I was really hoping I could control only the headphones and 1/4" with the little knob, but that combo doesn't seem to be possible. I know I can control the XLR and 1/4" outputs with the big knob or control only the 1/4" if I want XLR output at full. That seems like a simple solution, but XLR at full is too much for my mixer (even with xlr output set to Mic) and changing my output on presets screwed up the sound on some of them, so right now I've got the big knob controlling XLR + 1/4".

 

If I want to try the XLR at full again, what's the best way to control output level for whole presets? Should I add a gain block at the end of each preset and turn it down, or is there a better option?

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to wonder what kind of mixer you're using to have this problem.

 

My studio mixer is a Scarlett 18i20. I tried several amp+cab combinations using default settings and even the clean amps (most dynamic/least compression) were only hitting <>-7.6db on the Scarlett and in Reaper.

 

Next, I broke out my ANCIENT (had to search through the closet) Behringer Eurorack UB1002. I had to turn UP the Input Level to tickle the red light, and that was hitting the guitar harder than I ever do when playing.

 

This has to be the result of something that you're doing in your presets. Attach one of the "problematic" presets and I'll have a look at it.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/8/2024 at 3:26 PM, trhx said:

I was really hoping I could control only the headphones and 1/4" with the little knob, but that combo doesn't seem to be possible.


Hi,

 

I’m not really sure I fully understand what the exact issue is, but I do know that on my Helix floor unit it is possible to have the large volume knob control the output level on Multi, or XLR, or 1/4” and at the same time the phones socket (which is controlled by the little “Phones” knob) can monitor what’s happening at the 1/4” jacks.

 

From the Manual > page 63 > Global Settings

Volume Knob Controls - Determines which output(s) are affected when turning the top panel VOLUME knob. For example, you may want to control the level sent from the 1/4" outputs to your stage monitor without affecting the XLR level sent to the front-of-house mixer. Or you may want to disable the VOLUME knob altogether; in this case, set it to “Digital,” at which point Helix’s 1/4" and XLR outs will be at unity level.

 

Headphones Monitor - Determines which signal(s) are heard from the PHONES output. Normally you would set this to Multi (1/4"+XLR+Digital+USB 1/2), but there may be a situation where you only want to hear what’s sent from the 1/4" or XLR outs, particularly if they are fed different signals (or band members!)“

 

Probably, I’m missing the point entirely.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/8/2024 at 1:00 PM, datacommando said:

I’m not really sure I fully understand what the exact issue is, but I do know that on my Helix floor unit it is possible to have the large volume knob control the output level on Multi, or XLR, or 1/4” and at the same time the phones socket (which is controlled by the little “Phones” knob) can monitor what’s happening at the 1/4” jacks.

Right now, the big knob controls the XLR and 1/4", and the little knob controls the headphones. If I have to continue to use the big knob for my XLR (IOW, if the XLR full output can't be tamed), I'd like the little knob to control both the headphone output AND the 1/4" L/R outputs, and have the big knob control ONLY the XLR outputs.

 

If I can tame my presets' output levels in some way without screwing up the tones and send full signal out of the XLRs, I'll set the big knob to 1/4 only and the little knob to headphones only.

 

This is not a huge deal, but would be nice to have. If I'm not explaining well, no worries. My main mission right now is how to tame the XLR output without screwing up tones.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/8/2024 at 11:44 AM, rd2rk said:

I have to wonder what kind of mixer you're using to have this problem.

 

My studio mixer is a Scarlett 18i20. I tried several amp+cab combinations using default settings and even the clean amps (most dynamic/least compression) were only hitting <>-7.6db on the Scarlett and in Reaper.

 

Next, I broke out my ANCIENT (had to search through the closet) Behringer Eurorack UB1002. I had to turn UP the Input Level to tickle the red light, and that was hitting the guitar harder than I ever do when playing.

 

This has to be the result of something that you're doing in your presets. Attach one of the "problematic" presets and I'll have a look at it.

I have a Soundcraft UI24r. The gain slider has to be set extremely low if the Helix XLR output is full.

 

I take your point about the presets. I'll explore the various level/gain/channel volumes of each block and see if something got jacked up. If I need to post a preset, you mean export and then upload the hlx file, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, preset is attached. FYI, I use the Stomp mode. The Amp Channel footswitch switches between the Soldano clean and OD amps, and Exp pedal 2 controls the drive levels for the OD amp and the Dhyana pedal.

 

You'll see that the level settings are raised for the cab and the compressor near the front. When I turned those down, the clean channel dropped enough to use the XLRs on full, but the OD amp and Dhyana pedals were quite a bit louder. These were all fairly even volume wise with those 2 levels raised. I didn't think that particular control on the comp would affect clean and overdrive tones differently, but apparently it does.

 

Thanks for any insights.

TR Sold CabMic.hlx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I DL'd the manual for your mixer.

 

You have two "mixer" pages. "GAIN" and "MIX".

GAIN is the equivalent of the INPUT GAIN KNOB on an old-school analog mixer like my Behringer.

It is also the equivalent of the INPUT GAIN KNOBs on my Scarlett.

This page is used to set the optimum Input Level for the mixer's pre-amps.

The way you set these levels is to pull the Channel Level slider all the way down on the MIX page (no sound comes out), then play HARD with BIG CHORDS while pushing up the Channel Level slider on the GAIN page. When the meter hits the RED, pull it back just until it no longer hits the RED. This is the optimum level for the pre-amps.

If that means that the slider is all the way down, that's OK!

The knobs on my Behringer are BARELY cracked, and my Scarlett's knobs are always at zero.

This is with an empty preset and the Helix BIG KNOB dimed (0db) and results in an Output/Recording Level of <>8db in the Scarlett SW and in Reaper.

When I add any Amp+Cab (default settings) that takes the level down to <>-14 to <>-10db.

 

The general recommendation for Input Levels in a DAW is between -18db and -12db. I've seen it as low as -8db, but that's pushing it IMO.

Minor adjustments can be made with the amp's Channel Level. A couple of db either way will not have a major effect on the downstream FX.

 

What is the Ideal Level to Record Tracks into a DAW? - InSync (sweetwater.com)

 

Bottom line - don't worry about where the GAIN slider is set, as long as you keep it out of the RED you're good.

Build your presets starting with the Amp and Cab. As you add FX, keep track of that GAIN Level. If an effect increases it, lower the Output of the effect and vice versa.

 

NOTE: 

I use the IKMM T-Racks metering app in Reaper because it's easier to read than the Scarlett SW and default Reaper Channel meters.

It also contains a LUFs meter.

Reaper also has the FREE JS Loudness Meter which also has LUFs but isn't as pretty ;-)

Yours has that cool segmented display, so you should be good to work off of that.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couldn't help myself.

 

I took the Output Block Level down from 0db to -12db and that put it right in the sweet spot.

No, it has no effect on the TONE other than our buddies Fletcher and Munson. Just turn up your amp to compensate for that.

 

If, going forward, you build your presets with the gain-staging rules I outlined, you may find that your presets sound better - or not!

 

Just remember that the final Output Level to your mixer can be adjusted at the Output Block, and the Channel Level on the mixer SW GAIN page determines the proper level for the mixer, and when all of that is set properly the DAW Channel Input level should be about right.

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/9/2024 at 12:46 AM, rd2rk said:

Couldn't help myself.

 

I took the Output Block Level down from 0db to -12db and that put it right in the sweet spot.

No, it has no effect on the TONE other than our buddies Fletcher and Munson. Just turn up your amp to compensate for that.

 

If, going forward, you build your presets with the gain-staging rules I outlined, you may find that your presets sound better - or not!

 

Just remember that the final Output Level to your mixer can be adjusted at the Output Block, and the Channel Level on the mixer SW GAIN page determines the proper level for the mixer, and when all of that is set properly the DAW Channel Input level should be about right.

 

 

 

Are you saying it's possible to adjust the Output Block Level for the XLRs? I thought only the digital outputs could be adjusted down, so being able to with the XLRs is exactly what I was hoping to do.

 

Second, thanks for taking the time to check out the mixer manual. I know that took some time. I'm not actually the novice with the mixer that I am with the Helix (LOL) and I only use this for live sound, so the gain settings I could theoretically get away with for recording become non-workable for live shows for various reasons. You may already understand this, but I'm happy to give more detail if you'd like.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, just go to the XLR Output Block and pull down the level.

 

Don't confuse the GAIN settings for the MIX settings.

The GAIN settings are used to optimize the signal to the mixer's pre-amps so that you can get the maximum MIX output without pre-amp distortion.

The MIX settings are used for mixing your live shows.

Keeping the RECORDING level in the -18db to -12db range allows headroom for processing (EQ, Compression etc) and mixing projects with large #s of tracks and many instruments of different dynamic levels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/9/2024 at 10:35 AM, rd2rk said:

Yes, just go to the XLR Output Block and pull down the level.

Perfect. Thanks.

 

On 10/9/2024 at 10:35 AM, rd2rk said:

Don't confuse the GAIN settings for the MIX settings.

 No worries about that.

 

Thanks for all the help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...