Jump to content
ChaserHUN

POD HD500X tuner is not accurate

Recommended Posts

I've been using the POD HD500X for a while, but when it comes to tuning something was always off. I dug up my Polytune and started tuning, and WOW what a difference, the G string way inaccurate on the POD HD 500X

 

Anyone else has this problem? Will there be an update for this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use a free iphone app called PanoTuner, which is always spot on, and the few times I've used my POD tuner, it matched my tuning from the app.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't seem to be having any trouble with the HD500 and X3Pro tuners , even the Spider Jam, UX2 and GX work. Although, the G-String seems to always be a problem especially when it gets stuck in the nut groove, Hahaaa. I guess it depends on what ones looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I also find the Tuner on the POD HD500 is not accurate. Even an online tuner I  use is more accurate.

Line6 should keep that in mind for future gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the polytune shows the G string is OK, than the POD shows it'sw still flat, and if I tune with the POD I hear there something just not right

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My POD HD Desktop tuner working just fine

I have a Korg DT 3 and  a Planet Waves Strobe Pedal

And in my iPhone i have Peterson iStrobosoft or whatever it is called and the new IK Multimedia tuner which b.t.w is very good for it´s price. 

 

The Pod tuner is more accurate then the Korg

But not as accurate as the Strobe pedal and the iOs Strobe IK Multimedias but i use those for fine tuning when i set the intonation or tune my 12 string

 

Strange that some people have problem with the tuner and some dont must be a software bug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.....

 

Strange that some people have problem with the tuner and some dont must be a software bug

I think it's probably just different personal preferences/tolerances re: tuning accuracy. I think any strobe-type tuner is likely going to be more accurate than the HD tuner. Some people find that acceptable while others don't. That's not a bug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read a very interesting article on guitar tuning and guitar tuners written by an experienced sound engineer which was very enlightening and some of what he said may go some way to explaining what could be happening here which could be a combination of things related to digital tuners and electric guitars and tuning technique. If I can find the link I will post it here. 

 

Meanwhile, it is worth trying his suggested technique for tuning electric guitars more consistently and accurately with whatever tuner you use. His suggested method is as follows:

1) select neck pickup
2) roll off tone completely - set tone knob to zero
3) pluck the string over the 12th fret

Also, always set each string to the desired pitch at the same point after plucking the string, because the initial pluck will always make the note sharp then it settles down, so the pitch varies as the string vibrates. I usually wait a second or so for it to settle before adjusting.

You will be surprised at how much quicker the note settles down following the method above making it much easier to tune with a digital tuner.

 

Here is the link:
http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html

Edited by edstar1960
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is very good advice.  What you are trying to do with all three things is accentuate the fundamental of the note.  When tuning with a strobe tuner you can see how sharp the note is when first plucked.  Some tune to this and some tune to the steady state.  It makes a difference so you want to be consistent.  Tuning on a fretted instrument is a major compromise.  There are many good articles about this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always relied on plucking the string whilst tuning with the same force as when I play. When you pluck harder, the string pitch will be different to when you pluck lightly.

 

But, regarding the POD tuner, my gripe that the 'in tune' window is just too big. The gap between the two lines on the screen which indicate when it's correct is simply to wide. Move towards either line and you'll easily hear the difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always relied on plucking the string whilst tuning with the same force as when I play. When you pluck harder, the string pitch will be different to when you pluck lightly.

 

But, regarding the POD tuner, my gripe that the 'in tune' window is just too big. The gap between the two lines on the screen which indicate when it's correct is simply to wide. Move towards either line and you'll easily hear the difference.

 

Your post makes alot of sense to me, when tuning up you should consider how you play guitar. Also the sensitivity of the tuner could be what the problem is for some. When I use the HD tuner or the other Line 6 digital ones I don't just tune to the open note I check all up and down the neck to see where I'm at and then play to hear where I stand and then make adjustments accordingly in order to get all up and down the neck as close as possible. Sometimes I find myself having to intonate a couple times in between string changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would generally agree, the HD and even on the X3 the tuner seemed to be a *bit* off.  It is close enough for me on stage in live situation most of the time but I usually had a headstock tuner or other tuners around to make sure it was correct when I have the time to dial the tune in correctly.

 

The gutiar itself is not a perfectly temptered instrument anyway and will always be a bit out of tune somewhere on it. There are some odd fret board with that attempt to correct that but for most of us the standard straight frets are good enough. Add to that if you intonation is not perfect or the nut hieght is not perfect or the how hard you press the strings down and how high and/or worn your frets are. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that it's adequate but it's not good enough for me.  I much prefer the Peterson strobelike pattern.  For most tuners, the weakness is display resolution not absolute accuracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read a very interesting article on guitar tuning and guitar tuners written by an experienced sound engineer which was very enlightening and some of what he said may go some way to explaining what could be happening here which could be a combination of things related to digital tuners and electric guitars and tuning technique. If I can find the link I will post it here. 

 

Meanwhile, it is worth trying his suggested technique for tuning electric guitars more consistently and accurately with whatever tuner you use. His suggested method is as follows:

 

1) select neck pickup

2) roll off tone completely - set tone knob to zero

3) pluck the string over the 12th fret

 

Also, always set each string to the desired pitch at the same point after plucking the string, because the initial pluck will always make the note sharp then it settles down, so the pitch varies as the string vibrates. I usually wait a second or so for it to settle before adjusting.

 

You will be surprised at how much quicker the note settles down following the method above making it much easier to tune with a digital tuner.

 

Here is the link:

http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html

I tried using this method for a while and it works _in theory_ but only if you play with the softest touch.

the string reacts differently when you pick near the bridge/pickups and if you don't have exactly the same force as when you tuned, you'll probably "push" all of you notes sharp right when you hit them. At least it sure seemed like it to me. I prefer to tune with my "usual" pickup settings and picking force. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tune the guitar while constantly picking the string with my normal playing attack.  I also tune the G string about 10 to 15 cents flat to get the guitar as "in tune" as possible for the widest range of chords.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried using this method for a while and it works _in theory_ but only if you play with the softest touch.

the string reacts differently when you pick near the bridge/pickups and if you don't have exactly the same force as when you tuned, you'll probably "push" all of you notes sharp right when you hit them. At least it sure seemed like it to me. I prefer to tune with my "usual" pickup settings and picking force. 

 

The suggested method used with digital tuners eliminates much of the harmonics and noise that comes through when you pluck a note on normal settings. It allows you to more quickly tune the guitar to itself at the pick strength you use when you do the tuning because it helps isolate the fundamental note.  If you allow the string to ring and tune to pitch when it starts to settle as opposed to while it is still oscillating around pitch then this method just gets you to that point much quicker - obviously the harder you pluck the more you affect the initial pitch and the longer the string takes to settle to pitch.

 

You are correct that if during normal play you then pick harder and play much nearer the bridge that the strings will react differently and certainly initial pick attack will always send a string or fretted note sharp but they should all still be in tune relative to each other if your initial tuning was correct regardless of which tuning technique was used.

 

I have tried the suggested method with my JTV into an HD500 and it certainly stops the indicator from bouncing around all over the place and makes it much easier for me to get the strings to hit dead center on the HD500 tuner scale.   I don't play with a gentle touch and I have not noticed any tuning problems as a result of changing my tuning technique - but I also don't have super sensitive hearing regarding pitch - however I can tell when something is out as it grates and stands out but I may not notice if something is only very slightly out.   YMMV.               :)

Edited by edstar1960

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get issues with single strings being out of tune when tuning with my HD500. I only encounter tuning issues when using my JTV-89 with my HD500. If I tune the guitar using the mag pickups then switch to the piezo pickup and re-check the tuning the HD500 tells me that my guitar is slightly out of tune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have an HD500 here (not a HD500X) but I've tested the tuner by feeding in exact test tones to check the notes and they are dead on for me. For example, You can do this by creating a pure sine wave tone that is 196Hz with no modulation (you can do this in an audio editing software such as Sound Forge, Adobe Audition, or maybe Audacity). Send the playback of this tone into the POD HD Guitar Input jack with it in Tuner Mode and see how it reads. 192Hz is the frequency for a guitar's open G string (assuming you are tuned to 440Hz calibration, and POD HD tuner is set to 440Hz as the base setting).

 

What you might be seeing when tuning your guitar is perhaps how much your particular guitar's strings temporarily go sharp or flat - typically the note will go a bit sharp on attack and then settle down a few cents as it sustains. Some guitars or even strings can vary more than others on this, and how hard you pick can affect it.  Or, of course if you are fretting a note instead of plucking an open string, then your bridge intonation comes into play. How fast the tuner reacts, that is, how many times per second it reads the note and updates the display, is a big factor to how easy it makes it to read as well. The POD HD tuner does not have an adjustment for this, and maybe you'd prefer a tuner with a different or adjustable refresh/sensitivity rate.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The POD HD tuner does not have an adjustment for this, and maybe you'd prefer a tuner with a different or adjustable refresh/sensitivity rate.

 

I wonder if that is the difference then in the refresh rate. I can tune with good headstock tuner and dial the tuning in quicker and it *seems* more accurate than the POD. Maybe it's just because the headstock tuner is not bouncing around as much making it easier to dial in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any tuner can tune with a pure sinewave.  It's much more difficult to make a tuner that rapidly acquires just the fundamental of a guitar string vibration.  Some do it much better than others.  The fundamental isn't constant either.  It's sharp when you first pluck the string - more so if you pluck it hard.  It then decays to a lower frequency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Works just fine for me. Maybe takes a little getting used to, as far as whether to take the attack or decay signal. Some tuners are quicker at grabbing the pitch than others. Anyway I've used them all from Conn to Peterson to cheapo pedal tuners and they all work fine for me. Guitar is not a very accurate instrument pitch wise anyway - every fret is different., and the pitch changes with decay, so I don't sweat it as long as the guitar sounds good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind of off the subject, but has anybody ever tried tuning your A to 432 instead of 440? Supposedly music sounds better and makes you feel better with that tuning, something to do with the music of the spheres or something.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/music_theory/432hz_crazy_theory_or_crazy_fact.html

I haven't tried it. It's hard enough to get everybody in my band in tune using standard tuning!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So subjective... I've owned/used the tuner in the PODXTLive, HD500, Digitech RP300, a Yamaha one and a Boss one.

 

I've been in 15 bands, played at 7 churches and recorded my own songs and not once have I found any of these tuners "not sufficient". They've all gotten me in tune (of 5 electrics) so that when I play, I'm in tune with everyone else, the loops I'm using, my 2 acoustics or my Roland Fantom keyboard. ;)

 

My 2 biggest variables have been new strings and floating trem systems. :o

 

Oh yeah then there's your skill level, how hard you press on the strings, the size/type of your fret wire, semi-scalloped fret board, etc... see what I mean... endless! :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that 432Hz stuff is a crock. If you think it through for 2secs you'll realise what nonsense it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still have good results with all my Line 6 tuners, They're all I use, besides my ears. I tune 440.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read a very interesting article on guitar tuning and guitar tuners written by an experienced sound engineer which was very enlightening and some of what he said may go some way to explaining what could be happening here which could be a combination of things related to digital tuners and electric guitars and tuning technique. If I can find the link I will post it here. 

 

Meanwhile, it is worth trying his suggested technique for tuning electric guitars more consistently and accurately with whatever tuner you use. His suggested method is as follows:

 

1) select neck pickup

2) roll off tone completely - set tone knob to zero

3) pluck the string over the 12th fret

 

Also, always set each string to the desired pitch at the same point after plucking the string, because the initial pluck will always make the note sharp then it settles down, so the pitch varies as the string vibrates. I usually wait a second or so for it to settle before adjusting.

 

You will be surprised at how much quicker the note settles down following the method above making it much easier to tune with a digital tuner.

 

Here is the link:

http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html

 

This article is a good one ... although I agree with others that if you do not hit the string in the position where you normally pick the strings and if you do not hit as heavy as you "usually" do, you risk to go more sharp and noticeably out of tune than before.

 

Playing live and in a studio is a different animal ... and therefore the solutions how to fix the always existing tuning problem with guitars might be different.

 

When I did some studio recordings early this year, I discovered one of these nightmare issues as well:

-------------------------------------------------------------- -_---------------------------------------------------------------

I had a hard time to tune a guitar when playing some riffs / chords in the first and second fret. Even with very less finger pressures I wasn't able to get the guitar in tune. I tuned the guitar with the POD HD500 and a very good tuner from the studio. On both tuners the guitar was in tune. It ended up just to use another guitar which was less sensitive. I was not really clear what the root cause really was. . In general the the first frets are the most critical ones. There is one notes, the G#, which is a critical note, because the first fret is a worse approximation to the real G# note. Things turn even more into a tuning problem, if the nut (as mentioned in the article) is just a bit too high (I mean 0.1 mm levels) AND the finger pressure on your strings is pretty strong AND you have tall frets on your guitar. Later on I partially fixed with a good luthier which slightly reduces the nut height by 0.1 mm. With that article in mind, I will tune the guitar such a specific song part in the future in a different way to be in tune and retune later on.

 

 

When playing gigs, I figured out that in one song (and again: the guitar is well tuned with the POD HD500) I have from time to time the tendency to sound sharp. It is a part with heavy 8th note palm muting and riffing in the first and second fret.

With that article in mind I now understand that hitting those notes heavily, the strings always remain in the "sharp" phase (I have seen that when the tuner is on). In the future I therefore play this passage very VERY soft finger pressure AND less attack as a compromise.

 

 

 

One thing, what I haven't thought before, makes me concerned, because I am out of any ideas how to fix it for the moment, is the issue, when I lay my wrist on my Floyd rose tremolo to get a fixed anchor point: You can see on the tuner how the notes go sharp depending on the pressure you put on with your wrist. How do you deal with that - any ideas ???

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings All,

 

I find that the POD HD 500 tuner is 'dead on' with my Snark and Intelsense tuners which all calibrated to A 440. Though none of these digital tuners have as fine a verner as my Peterson Strobe Tuner ;-)

 

applogies if this was already mentioned: have you confirmed that your guitar is properly intonated? I find my G always needs a little more compensating at the bridge than the other strings. Once my guitars are 'strobed' and intonated they tune fine irrespecitve of the tuner...

 

Regarding the floating bridge issues, for the longest time I have used a Tremol-no which allowed the bridge to be locked down completely, funtion as dive (down) only or float normally. Your 'detent' position (resting floating point) on the bridge must be a set before you intonate your guitar as  the distance from the bridge to the nut will be different depending on where the bridge returns....  Ensuring that your bridge is floated correctly will go a long way to making the intonation process a little more accurate.

 

hope this helps, -Rick

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well since a guitar never will be in tune due to it´s contruction i would always tune my guitars with a tuning method that compansate for what the normal tuning method is missing.

 

This is how i do it first tune your high E-string to a good tuner or a pitchpipe or pitchfork then when the high E-string is in tune hit a harmonics over the 12 fret on the B- string and tune that B-string to the a fretted B-note on the high E-string which is on placed on the 7-fret

 

Then do the same with the G-string but of course you need to tune to the 8-fret on the B-string which is where the G-note is located.

 

Then go on to the D-string for all you who don´t know where to find notes on the fretboard use the 7-fret on the G-string

(but you should really take the time to learn where all the notes are as it is only 12 of them)

 

And then it is time for the A-string do exactly the same as you did with the D-string and B-string

 

And finally you guess it?It is time for the low E-string and of course you do the same as on all other string except for the G-string

 

The guitar will now be a little of tune all over the fretboard but atleast you can play chords high up without it sounding way out of tune like it does when tuning the normal way..

 

Of course this solution doesn´t make it good just a little better than how it is when tuning the "normal" way

 

If you really want a guitar that is in tune all over the fretboard you have to buy a True Tempered fretboard..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tuner in my HD500 works good.The tuner in my old floorboard did not. I tune a bit differently though. I tune the strings from the outside in. 

 

I tune the high E then the low E

I tune the B then the A string

I finish by tuning the G and then the D string

then I do it all over the same way again. 

 

I never tune the strings straight across

 

this is the same way a piano is tuned

 

if you tune them from high to low by the time you get to the last one the first three are a little bit out

 

it is the best way to tune tremolo equipped guitars

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any guitar is going to interact between strings when tuning.  The neck bends as you change the string tension even if you don't have a trem.  If you have a trem, the whole trem block  moves when you adjust one string.  You have to go through the strings tuning them until they are all in tune.  Doesn't matter what order if you are using a tuner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any guitar is going to interact between strings when tuning.  The neck bends as you change the string tension even if you don't have a trem.  If you have a trem, the whole trem block  moves when you adjust one string.  You have to go through the strings tuning them until they are all in tune.  Doesn't matter what order if you are using a tuner.

 

 alternatively, u cld use tronical autotune....

with just 1 strum 'n all strings r perfectly tuned...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any guitar is going to interact between strings when tuning.  The neck bends as you change the string tension even if you don't have a trem.  If you have a trem, the whole trem block  moves when you adjust one string.  You have to go through the strings tuning them until they are all in tune.  Doesn't matter what order if you are using a tuner.

Andres' Segovia-Pat Travers-Eric Johnson and a bunch of other high profile classical/rock and jazz players all use the method I described but do it the way you like. It's just a suggestion. Watch a good piano tuner tune a piano and ask him some questions as to why he works from one end and tunes a few notes and then goes to the opposite end and continues tuning towards the middle of the piano.If your frets aren't crowned and seated and your bridge saddles are not adjusted along with the neck on your guitar tuner or no tuner you will be out.I play with really good keyboard and sax players a lot so my tuning has to be right .If you play in a trio or with other guitars only you can get away with being a bit "out" of tune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your post makes alot of sense to me, when tuning up you should consider how you play guitar. Also the sensitivity of the tuner could be what the problem is for some. When I use the HD tuner or the other Line 6 digital ones I don't just tune to the open note I check all up and down the neck to see where I'm at and then play to hear where I stand and then make adjustments accordingly in order to get all up and down the neck as close as possible. Sometimes I find myself having to intonate a couple times in between string changes.

I used to suffer from these two issues, tuning changes with changes in intensity of playing, and of course the dreaded intonation. But with a good set up and the right calibre of strings (switched from lights to light top heavy bottom) I've had no further issues. My only complaint with regards to the HD series is the tuning is not able to calibrate to 442 for those rare occasions when I've played with orchestra. That's when I go to my old Boss, that, after 15 years (no joke) it hasn't broken or failed once! Line 6 needs to find a way to upgrade the software for this function. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well since a guitar never will be in tune due to it´s contruction i would always tune my guitars with a tuning method that compansate for what the normal tuning method is missing.

 

This is how i do it first tune your high E-string to a good tuner or a pitchpipe or pitchfork then when the high E-string is in tune hit a harmonics over the 12 fret on the B- string and tune that B-string to the a fretted B-note on the high E-string which is on placed on the 7-fret

 

A guitar will never be in tune? It's true that it won't be in tune at every fret up and down the neck, but the goal is to get it in tune at the open strings and intonated well enough that it's mostly in tune up and down the neck.

 

Tuning with harmonics across strings makes the situation worse because you exacerbate the problem when you tune strings to each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to suffer from these two issues, tuning changes with changes in intensity of playing, and of course the dreaded intonation. But with a good set up and the right calibre of strings (switched from lights to light top heavy bottom) I've had no further issues. My only complaint with regards to the HD series is the tuning is not able to calibrate to 442 for those rare occasions when I've played with orchestra. That's when I go to my old Boss, that, after 15 years (no joke) it hasn't broken or failed once! Line 6 needs to find a way to upgrade the software for this function. 

 

It's nice when you get a peice of equipment that does the job (tried & true) and stands the test of time I agree that string gauge makes a differnce in the reliability of the set-up as after I started using Daddario 10's from the really light strings the guitar came with I noticed increased tuning stability, I don't have to fiddle with the bridge anymore after the initial set-up and I can just pick up the guitar, play it and it sounds good, Then when I notice I have to tune it more often it's usually ready for new strings, which is quite some time between string changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A guitar will never be in tune? It's true that it won't be in tune at every fret up and down the neck, but the goal is to get it in tune at the open strings and intonated well enough that it's mostly in tune up and down the neck.

 

Tuning with harmonics across strings makes the situation worse because you exacerbate the problem when you tune strings to each other.

Well the method i explained is what i read on a luthiers website over 15 years ago and i been using it ever since that day

He has built guitars since the early 70:s

I bet he knows what he is talking about

And yes it make the tuning better for me all over the neck

It´s not perfect like on a Piano (which b.t.w is not in tune with itself but alot more in tune than a guitar) but it is alot better then the normal way tuning open strings to tuner or tune strings to eachother on the 5 fret and 4th when tuning the B-string

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it is alot better then the normal way tuning open strings to tuner

 

If you have to tune strings to each other to get better results, I would guess that the intonation on that guitar is off at least slightly. Any time you're tuning from one string to another, instead of tuning all strings (on a properly intonated instrument) to a single reference, you are going to get less reliable results.

 

Well the method i explained is what i read on a luthiers website over 15 years ago and i been using it ever since that day

He has built guitars since the early 70:s

I bet he knows what he is talking about

 

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I know a lot of old time players that still promote bad techniques. And luthiers aren't perfect either, you'll find plenty of them disagreeing with each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...