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gapchurch

m20d soundscape L6 Link lost in the middle of church service

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For a couple of months we have been having problems with our m20d soundscape mixing board and Lt3 speakers. Right in the middle of service the speakers cut out intermittingly. We are using the L6 Link with a aes 50 ft. cable to connect to the first speaker.  When it happened the 1st time we could not figure out what was causing the problem. The 2nd time it happened it seemed to be one of the speakers (we figured it out by swapping the speakers and the problem persisted with the one speaker and not the other) so we took it back to the vendor. they could not reproduce the problem. We brought back the speaker and it happened again . They gave us a rental for the time being and everything  seemed to be okay. Then the other speaker(not the rental speaker) started to drop the link to the mixer. any ideas as to the cause of this?????

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The usual cause is the connectors losing contact.  Make sure there is some slack in the lines and the connectors and not being bumped.  You could also try swapping cables, problem could be there too.

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I was having this issue as well. It is almost definitly a cable rattling out of the l6 link. What i did was I swapped the connecters on my AES cables to 90 degree xlr connectors. what that did for me was gave me the ability to secure the cables tight to the speakers with either some gaffers tape or i created a velcro system. the bigg culprit is often the monitors since they are fighting gravity

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I also have this problem periodically. I think I have narrowed it down to the L6 LINK connection coming out of the M20d to the first of my 2 L3t speakers. I only seem to get the problem when this connection is in play. I have not experienced the problem when I bypass the M20d and use my Pod HD500 or Pod HD PRO with their L6 LINK directly connected to the first L3t, nor with the L6 LINK connection between the L3t speakers. I also do not experience any problem when using the L3t analog inputs and a 2-way bi-directional L6 LINK connection between the two L3ts.

 

I have reinstalled the firmware in both L3t speakers and the M20d multiple times. I have also reused and replaced the official Line 6 L6 LINK cables and standard XLR cables multiple times. It always boils down to that one connection coming from the M20d. I have yet to find a reliable solution.

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HI silverhead

 

Sounds like you may have a damaged output jack on the M20d.  You should get it serviced

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I can also confirm that this is almost certainly a connection issue. I had a night of this problem once too! Horrible experience. I just got so used to my 20 min set up. I now take another 10 min just to confirm connections.

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Thanks for the responses to our issue. Let me clarify more points to our problem. When the system cuts out it does so for 5 - 10 seconds then comes back on and has done this numerous times in a service. In one service it was cutting out quite a lot and at the end of the service we swapped speakers. The strange thing is that we had the speakers off the stands and switched the cable between speakers and it seemed to  be causing one speaker to be losing the L6 Link connection and not the other. As silverhead also noticed , we tried running the system in analogue last Sunday and no problems what so ever. We also tried reinstalling the firmware on the speakers and mixing board. I think we are going to try to redo the xlr ends and give it a go this Sunday with the L6 Link. I really cant see how the cable or ends can be the problem when it is never walked on or abused. Another thing we did notice when it was cutting out was the mixer was getting super hot. Not sure why the mixer was getting hot but haven't been able to get it reproduce this problem other then when it was cutting out.

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Have you checked power stability? 5-10 seconds sounds appropriate for a power supply cycling. If that power supply cycle knocks out the first of your L cabs, the whole L6Link chain is disrupted.

If it is coming back on it doesn't suggest a damaged L6Link XLR input/output to me since the signal would drop and not get picked up again unless you went and jiggled the connections.

 

Check your power supply.

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Siwatts69 good question but I doubt it because both speakers are plugged into the same power source. We also were standing behind the 1st speaker in the chain and witnessed the link being lost and the power not going out sooooo as far as we can see that's not a issue but I guess we will check again. its a really screwy problem. I did notice in another thread someone suggested it might be the trim ,so we are going to check that as well . We might change the xlr's to right angled xlr's just in case. 

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Hi gapchurch... The kind of power cycle I'm talking about can be split second. Not long enough for the whole speaker to obviously power down but possibly long enough for the digital processor to drop out. It could equally well be the power supply in the speaker as the main wall feed.

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When I finally realized my problem, I opened the ipad to the L6 configuration page. So I could see what was happening. That is when I could see the speakers rebuilding their connections. The page would go blank, and then the speakers would come back. It was the first time I used the system on this particular stage and I started my L6 run at a monitor. I am certain it was a loose connection causing a break from vibration of drums and bass. The problem would range from about a couple of seconds to up to 10 or 15 seconds (which feels like a lot longer in the moment!). The cables seemed in place too. So even if we were looking, we would have seen the connection lost, but everything else would seem fine. With the speakers off of the stands, it could be very likely the vibration causing a "disconnect"?

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I started having this same issue about 3 weeks ago, where the speaker cuts in and out. When it does, the link icon on the M20d flashes yellow and the digital number on the speaker flashes off and on. I have tried checking all of the connections multiple times, turning the M20d off and on and plugging/unplugging the Link cable at the mixer all to no avail. Then, 2 weeks ago, the system worked fine for an entire 3h practice session. Unfortunately, this week the issue returned and so I just turned off the L3's and went with the studio monitors that I have hooked up to get through the practice session. We have another benefit gig coming up in 2 weeks which makes me very nervous. I do have another set of Line 6 digital cables, so, I will try them, but, the system is not that old and has certainly not been abused by any means to be having these type of problems. I've already had the M20d replaced 1 time for other issues. I love the system when it's working properly, but, these type of issues indicates that it lacks the robustness expected of a live sound system at this time.

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Based on the power demands of the Stagescape system, does Line 6 have a recommended power conditioner/UPS for a band that's doing mostly charity gigs for the local community?  In other words, something reasonably priced?

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I started having this same issue about 3 weeks ago, where the speaker cuts in and out. When it does, the link icon on the M20d flashes yellow and the digital number on the speaker flashes off and on. I have tried checking all of the connections multiple times, turning the M20d off and on and plugging/unplugging the Link cable at the mixer all to no avail.

That kind of a problem is probably not the mixer and that's why cycling it doesn't help. Try cycling the speakers. Generally this kind of problem is mechanical and caused by a plug losing connection with the jack in a speaker. Once it does all the rest of the link will try to enumerate which can take a few minutes to reset. It's usually quicker to cycle the speakers.

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Unfortunately, I tried cycling the speakers and checking the connections there (plugging/unplugging cables as well), but, that did not correct the problem.  Last evening, I had no problem with the system.  We've also had no problems with the system while gigging yet - but, we only play out about once a month currently.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't power-related since it's occurred twice recently when the full band's been there to practice - 2 electric guitarists with small, studio amps (mic'd); drummer with Roland e-drums (stereo DI); bassist with sans-amp DI; cellist with microphone (DI'd); lead vocalist with TC Helicon DI'd; Motif keyboard (stereo DI); acoustic/electric guitarist with a Vox tonelab (DI'd).  Oh, plus the M20d, 1 L3t, 1L3m, 2 Event studio monitors and a QSC power amp for unpowered monitors.  

 

I use a Furman M-8Lx "power conditioner" for the M20d, Motif, QSC power amp and ART rack mounted headphone amp (6 outs).  The L3 speakers are plugged into separate wall sockets.  The hard part for me is that this has been the same way we've practiced for about a year with no problems and I have had this happen a couple of times when I was practicing with the system and just the Motif and tonelab ex plugged in.

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Sorry, that should have been a Furman M-8Dx (only difference is the digital voltage readout).

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Forgot to ask ... What firmware version are the speakers running. The latest is 1.05. You can read it in the mixer just go to the setup page like you were going to upgrade them. It will read out there.

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The L3t is v1.05, but the L3m is v 1.03 so I'll need to upgrade the L3m. Hopefully tonight. The Link chain is always m20d to L3t to L3m and I'm running mono (L+R for each with no auto-assign).

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Based on the power demands of the Stagescape system, does Line 6 have a recommended power conditioner/UPS for a band that's doing mostly charity gigs for the local community?  In other words, something reasonably priced?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/monster-cable-pro-3500-rack-powercenter

 

This is what I use and it works great (it's no longer produced) but DB said you don't need a power conditioner because it's built in to the power supplies of each part of your dream stage system. We got it for our old system because we had problems with bad noisy power at the places we have gone. We do outreach in our area so you don't know what kind of hook up you will have.

 

Last gig I ran it wide open at an outside gig and that's m20d turned all the way up and the speakers at 12:00 and the read out on the monster power pro has amps and voltage read outs and it was around 5-7 amps the whole time and it went on for 4 hours and 3 other acts besides our band, 2 were christian rap groups and they want it loud.

 

As far as a UPS you will need a big one and there high dollar.

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I allo have experienced similar connection troubles: With xlr inputs, jack inputs and xlr analogie output (not with Line6Link connections...) this troubles were solved by twice servicing période (with two weeks delivery Time)

My opinion is that the connectors mass are a weak feature of the M20d. Problem of manufacturing Process or quality control ? In any case, this lack of reliability on basic connectors do not satisfy me as a customer. But when it is working with out trouble, me and my band, we really enjoy the LINE6 Sound system.

A l'astrologie comment about servicing is that there zero comment about the works done, except : OK Repaired... À bit frustrating

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Well, the system worked great at the benefit we did last Friday evening.  The speakers didn't cut out once and we received several compliments on the quality of our sound mix.  Hopefully, with both speakers now on the most recent firmware update and being really careful with regards to the L6 connections we won't have a problem with them cutting out again.  Thanks again for the helpful suggestions.  I wish making sure that all of my neural connections are functioning properly was as easy to accomplish  :)

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We also were standing behind the 1st speaker in the chain and witnessed the link being lost and the power not going out...

As SiWatts69 said, a split-second power dip (essentially a spike below normal line voltage, not over it) can disrupt a digital system. You may never see the power light flicker, but power-supply voltages can quickly drop.

 

mncanuck, you might run a test by plugging all the speakers into the same outlet (even if you need extension cords, it's OK for a test). I have seen many electrical outlets wired using the push-in contacts rather than using the screws to hold the wires. Those push-in contacts have a very small contact area on the wire and they oxidize over time. An outlet that worked before may begin to develop momentary problems.

 

Also, be advised that most power conditioners are simply surge suppressors, not unlike those in a power strip. They don't regulate the line voltage at all.

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