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Jeffsco

Big difference in Strat tones from version 2.1 to 1.9...

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I understand where the discussion is coming from because it does seem that the Strat models changed as much/more than any of the other models with the new HD models.  However I have to say that I think the new models are more dynamic and you can get a great sound out of them.  

 

My only complaint, if there is one, is that the Strat they modeled is a bit on the bright side of things and it can be a little challenging to "blend" them with the other guitar models.  I tend to put a bank of my favorites together to make my "dream guitar" as my go to sound rather than just using the Start bank, Les Paul bank, Tele bank, etc.  But that is in no way a criticism of the Strat tone they got.  

 

For anyone using workbench to "fix" the sound of the Strat a couple things I found is you can drop the resistance setting of the tone knob to take off a little of the high end.  Also, which is what ended up being my preferred method, I use the natural body setting with the Strat pickups.  BTW I'm doing this with the JTV69, I haven't tested this with the JTV59 yet.  

 

Doing this I've found that it tames the high end a bit and helps things sit better together when I'm using say a Strat neck for clean/rhythm sounds and flip over to a Les Paul bridge sound for lead.  

 

These are just my opinions and as always YMMV.

 

As others have stated if you absolutely love the sound of the 1.9 firmware then maybe it's best to stay there.  If it's not broke don't fix it :)

 

BTW, here's a clip of me doing some SRV using the neck position Strat pickup with the natural body setting.  It's running into an HD500X.  I'm very pleased with the sounds I'm getting. 

 

http://youtu.be/FrWbyxauVIE

 

 

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BTW, here's a clip of me doing some SRV using the neck position Strat pickup with the natural body setting.  It's running into an HD500X.  I'm very pleased with the sounds I'm getting. 

 

http://youtu.be/FrWbyxauVIE

 

Man, great playing and tone here! B)

 

Other than swapping the guitar body out, did you make any other mods to the Strat model? It sounds superb! What model(s) are you using on the POD HD?

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just wanted to point out this video as a reference:

http://line6.com/support/topic/2074-v2-hd-comparison-video/

 

Interesting....the first thing I noticed was the difference in the volume between the 2.0 and the 1.9 sounds. Several folks who responded to the original post did so as well.

 

This is important because it is a well documented  phenomena that the majority of human beings...when asked to compare 2 sound clips...will overwhelmingly identify the one that is LOUDER as being the one that sounds best. Even if they are the same IDENTICAL clip....that is...the same audio sample being used for comparision but one instance of the clip being slightly louder.

 

I've experienced this with a Client while sending him evaluation mixes of a Song we recorded together. I sent him the same 2 mixes ...but had the 2nd mix slightly Louder due to slightly greater Peak  Level / Normalize ratio during the mastering process. I had forgotten to provide any description of what I had done to the mixes which was ....nothing....the EQ was the same, Track balance...everything....other than a slightly Louder master track. He responded immediately.....absolutely HATED the EQ, Track balance etc of the "quieter" clip...loved the 2nd clip. I didn't have the heart to tell hm it was EXACTLY the same clip....just turn up your volume knob and see. Ended up with a happy customer and a "greatly" improved mix from the first to the 2nd....LOL! :lol:

 

I've recorded the exact same tests into my DAW...and on blind playback with both myself and others... (all audio samples matched for volume.) the unanimous opinion has been that the 2.1 Strat tones sound "thin" and the 1.9 sound "Fat and Clear".

 

I'm going to re-record the samples this coming weekend and post them for the Forum to evaluate.

 

The more I compare the 2.1 to 1.9....I do think that it is simply a "preference" issue. The JTV seems to be working fine. I doubt it is a "re-Flash issue"....in that you need to reflash it a certain number of times before the JTV "randomly" takes the proper Flash. Electronics just don't work that way....or at least very, very rare. The guys that like the thin,trebly tone of the 2.1 Spank prefer it over the Fat, Woody tone of the 1.9.

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I've pretty much likened the upgrade to a midi sysex type update....

which is to say that it could indeed work exactly that way... 

if you've ever done any midi sysex upgrades to equipment you'll know what i mean.

very similar to loading a config in a cisco router (if you're an IT guy)

 

 

 

The more I compare the 2.1 to 1.9....I do think that it is simply a "preference" issue. The JTV seems to be working fine. I doubt it is a "re-Flash issue"....in that you need to reflash it a certain number of times before the JTV "randomly" takes the proper Flash. Electronics just don't work that way....or at least very, very rare. 

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I have done some midi sysex updates. The solution was to add some delay via Midi OX in order for the unit receiving the data dump time to receive it all.  How does one do that with a JTV?

 

I believe it is a preference issue as half of the profiles really do sound "HD" in comparison to the 1.9. Unfortunately...I rarely, if ever, use those profiles. :rolleyes:

 

I do require a great Strat tone, Tele and a Rickenbacher tone....all of which are dramatically thinner, less distinctive in 2.1.

 

In 2.1 ....The Lester models are incredible, the Acoustics are great, the Rezo's...good.

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Found this video Youtube....It really demonstrates what I am talking about. Check out the difference in the Strat tones starting at 1:08. The Rick tones as well.

 

Now...before anyone says it...I get the whole youtube Compression / lousy sound deal. However...this video pretty much demonstrates what I have been trying to say.

 

Watch, listen and judge for yourself.

 

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Not where I can watch the video. But it does sound like you're confident that the variax isn't faulty. Which has got to be good news on some level.

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Found this video Youtube....It really demonstrates what I am talking about. Check out the difference in the Strat tones starting at 1:08. The Rick tones as well.

 

Now...before anyone says it...I get the whole youtube Compression / lousy sound deal. However...this video pretty much demonstrates what I have been trying to say.

 

Watch, listen and judge for yourself.

 

 

Yep, they are definitely different. I think a big part of the thin sound can simply be attributed to volume, but they are different tone-wise, too. Like I said earlier, it's a different Strat in 1.9 versus 2.0. You either like it or you don't, I guess.

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So did they change the pitch shifting or is that only the Rickenbacker? I really like how the 12 string doesn't sound nasally anymore. 

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Not where I can watch the video. But it does sound like you're confident that the variax isn't faulty. Which has got to be good news on some level.

 

Yes....it is good news in that regard...and it is going to come down to personal preference. For instance....on the video I love the 2.0 Tele tones as well as the ,Lester,Semi and Rezo. The acoustics in 2.0 are noticably different to my ears as well. I'd actually like to be able to access both the 1.9 and 2.0 acoustics as they all have some strong points.

 

I'd like to thank all the posters for their Input. You've been a big help and I appreciate the respectful way people have approached this.

 

But as I noted above..My go to tones are the Strat and the Rick's and both those sound better in 1.9, to my taste.

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I'd actually like to be able to access both the 1.9 and 2.0 acoustics as they all have some strong points.

 

No.. As someone stated before, it's the modeling engine that makes any of those sound different, and it's insane to ask them to put in 2 modeling engines in 1 firmware. That's even worse than asking to have 1.9 presets.

 

It's obvious you like 1.9 more. Just stick to it..

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if you happen to be on 2.x playing with workbench a cool trick to get a couple of extra acoustic models to play with is to turn the octave strings off on the 12 stringers....

 

 

Yes....it is good news in that regard...and it is going to come down to personal preference. For instance....on the video I love the 2.0 Tele tones as well as the ,Lester,Semi and Rezo. The acoustics in 2.0 are noticably different to my ears as well. I'd actually like to be able to access both the 1.9 and 2.0 acoustics as they all have some strong points.

 

I'd like to thank all the posters for their Input. You've been a big help and I appreciate the respectful way people have approached this.

 

But as I noted above..My go to tones are the Strat and the Rick's and both those sound better in 1.9, to my taste.

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One of the reasons I started using the Variax (300) was because the Strat sounded so close to my REAL '63 Strat. Moved to a 700 in less than a year. Played it live several nights a week for 4 or 5 years. I waited patiently when I heard about the JTV Variaxs. Finally in 2012 I bought a JTV69. I loved the sounds but I was not thrilled with the way it played. Still not thrilled with the action however the tracking is so much better. The acoustics started to really hit the spot.

 

The Spanks still sound like my '63 until HD. Neither 2.0 nor 2.1 sound like a good Strat to me. Maybe they are closer to a Squire Strat. I thought I had done a bad flash. After three attempts I realized it was the firmware. I had taken it out on the gig and got funny looks from my regulars that know my tone. The output is lower on certain models. in particular the Spank, Chime and Semi. Probably because the tone is thinner. On the Chime setting the 12 strings sounded terrible. I was not about to take the time to re-program my X3L so I rolled back to 1.9. Back to having balls.

 

I personally feel that Line6 dropped the ball on this one.

Now to add insult to injury the ouput of the guitar itself has become intermittent.

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Man, great playing and tone here! B)

 

Other than swapping the guitar body out, did you make any other mods to the Strat model? It sounds superb! What model(s) are you using on the POD HD?

 

Thanks man!! :)

 

Sorry I haven't replied.  Work has gotten busy and I haven't even had time to pick up a guitar in a couple of weeks ;)

 

I did a lot of experimenting with settings on the tone control resistance setting and actually saving specific positions on the tone knob.  After going around and around with that I pretty much got back to a "stock" configuration.  Tone knob wide open and tone control resistance on 250k.  I think that's what the default strat setting is, but I could be off on that.

 

Again I don't think the regular strat body sounded bad by any stretch.  It was just much brighter to my ears than the other guitar models collectively.  When I eq'd a patch on the HD500(X) to work with it the other positions/guitars tended to be a little on the dark side tone wise.  

 

On the HD500X I'm using the Dr. Z model.  Only one amp.  It's funny because that's the first amp model I was drawn to way back when I got my first HD500 and after HOURS of tweaking and trying different amps and dual signal paths I ended up pretty much back where I started :)  

 

Here's the patch I was using in the video http://line6.com/customtone/tone/547220/ 

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Just going to add a "Me too" here - I just bought my Variax 7 days ago and last night upgraded from the factory-shipped 1.7 to 2.10. I nearly wept. The strat sounds horrible. I immediately rolled back to 1.9 which I hear everyone is at (who dislikes the current models). 2.1 spank- Its tinny, thin and grating- like mix between the banjo and a guitar patch. 1.7 was much fuller and authentic. Alot of vintage strats sound bad. But we buy these guitars to get the best of the best vintage sounds. I really hope they correct this. I'm having such a buzz kill. I just bought a new item and when the newest updates are applied it sounds awful. Its like buying a corvette to find out there is an ECU update that gives MOST people more horsepower and a better exhaust note. But to YOUR corvette, it does nothing for speed and makes it sound like a Chevette lol. <== Tears of a clown.

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Just wanted to follow up. ..Spent considerable time playing my JTV with v1.9 this past couple of weeks. I am in tone heaven. Version 1.9 sounds incredible to my ears. Everything i put to it works. I've really been exploring the stock Mag pickups as well. Really finding them versatile..

 

Running it thru my Kemper Profiler and my HD500.

 

Hopefully v2.2 will correct some of the issues being raised, but if not....1.9 sounds great to my ears and I'm not going to l try to get 2.1 to do something it won't.

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not happy with how my 69s sounds with the latest firmware are there instructions for rolling back to 1.9?

 

thanks

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not happy with how my 69s sounds with the latest firmware are there instructions for rolling back to 1.9?

 

Connect your JTV to the computer either with the interface or through your POD.  Fire up Line 6 Monkey and pick your JTV.  Make sure you are logged in and select the firmware line.  Choose to rollback and pick which version you want to rollback to.  Done...

 

I decided to do it myself this morning.  After listening to the video comparisons I wanted to see for myself.  I never spent much time with 1.9 before so didn't feel I was missing anything.  I am surprised at the tonal differences and agree they seem better, fuller somehow.  I know I lose out on Workbench HD but the truth is I was just playing around with it anyways.  I will have to spend some time with this now but at least I know what it sounds like on my rig.

 

I have to agree they definitely need to get the 2.2 version right with these tones...

 

The different model volumes are much more balanced in 1.9 too.

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Thanks radatats I'll try it when I get home.  I bought the guitar to use live and couldn't stand the strat or tele sounds way too thin. I have a 500 i got from a pawn shop with a Buzz Feiten nut but didn't like the way it felt on stage but the guitars were closer to the 3 strat's and 1 tele I own. I might have the the nut put on the 69s the intonation is angelic.

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I have to agree they definitely need to get the 2.2 version right with these tones...

 

The different model volumes are much more balanced in 1.9 too.

 

I'd be surpised to see any significant changes in the core 2.0 tones. Sure, some people don't like some of them, but I think now it's been over a year since the HD update, and if Line 6 was really worried about that, they would have done something about it by now. I think their general sentiment is that the new models more accurately reflect the guitars that they modeled.

 

I also think that the differences between the 1.9 and 2.0 firmwares seems more pronounced when using a VDI connection. I'd be curious if people have tried using the JTV with a traditional rig with a 1/4" cable.

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There is definitely a difference in the tones from 1.9 and 2.x firmware. I won't speculate which is better because everyone has different ears.

 

Line 6 could provide us more options going forward. This could be addressed by adding a new body type say '69 stratocaster and '59 stratocaster. They could also provide different single coil pickups for '69 and '59.

 

We like options, not limitations.

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I would think that 2.0 would sound better. I honestly think it's just the strat they modelled's fault  Add 1 more Strat model closer to 1.0 to workbench and I think it'll solve everything.

 

Like I've said before, NO to everyone saying to add 1.9 models to 2.0/2.1. Seriously. It's a huge leap back. The problem is the modeled strat, not the modeling!

 

Besides, it won't fit, some guy already confirmed the JTV didn't have enough room to fix 1.9 and the HD acoustics with the reset feature, so there's no way in heck they can fit 1.9 models with the new firmware.

 

I'm honestly wondering if they can add more models either, I really hope they can. A little bit more room hopefully. It depends on how much memory the flash memory has for new features, otherwise, we're stuck, and the only way they can fix that is with a new line of guitars with better hardware, and I think it's way too early for that. It would alienate all current JTV users. The last thing we need is a JTVX like the PODs.

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Besides, it won't fit, some guy already confirmed the JTV didn't have enough room to fix 1.9 and the HD acoustics with the reset feature, so there's no way in heck they can fit 1.9 models with the new firmware.

 

I think the suggestion was for them to offer a downloadable strat model like 1.9 that you could choose to replace the current 2.0 strat.  I could dig that.  While they are at it a few other guitar models too... lol...

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did the rollback tones are warmer and fuller guess I'll wait for line6 to hopefully improve the models. Sure the lester, acoustic and reso are not as nice but for what I use which are the strat, tele and jazz models the trade off is worth it. is there away to edit the alt tunings had a real nice nashville which I wish I still had.

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I was just suggesting more models in the Workbench HD software to choose from. Nothing would need to be crammed into the full firmware, just swapped out as desired.

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I'd be surpised to see any significant changes in the core 2.0 tones. Sure, some people don't like some of them, but I think now it's been over a year since the HD update, and if Line 6 was really worried about that, they would have done something about it by now. I think their general sentiment is that the new models more accurately reflect the guitars that they modeled.

 

I also think that the differences between the 1.9 and 2.0 firmwares seems more pronounced when using a VDI connection. I'd be curious if people have tried using the JTV with a traditional rig with a 1/4" cable.

well I did plug straight into my rig and the difference was night and day 1.9 was fuller and warmer on the spank and t models actually sounded like there was wood in the mix. Volume levels all around were louder and more consistent. Not sure what guitars they modeled but I think for the cost of this instrument and what it promised they need to rethink their sentiment. Maybe the new models reflect the guitars they modeled but I find them weak, tinny and lifeless. The tone of my 3 strats blow 2.1 out of the water. Maybe not being a guitar company is a issue now being owned by Yamaha which makes guitars they might improve on the tones of the models.

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I have alot of guitars... and there are many other guitars i would go for if i wanted "fuller and warmer" before i would pick up a strat or a tele....

just saying...

i personally think that 2.x is far superior more dynamics and more distinction between the models...

clearly a subjective topic and clearly you disagree....

but let's not let those that prefer the older models... pretend that noone likes the new ones....

it's your preference.... fair enough.

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I have alot of guitars... and there are many other guitars i would go for if i wanted "fuller and warmer" before i would pick up a strat or a tele....

just saying...

i personally think that 2.x is far superior more dynamics and more distinction between the models...

clearly a subjective topic and clearly you disagree....

but let's not let those that prefer the older models... pretend that noone likes the new ones....

it's your preference.... fair enough.

Yes it is my preference plus I also own quite a few different guitars les paul, SG,  jazz boxes, 12 string just to name a few which doesn't really matter.But as I said the 2.1 models do not come close to my strats or tele. Yes each guitar has it's own voice which allows them to be used in many types of music and styles so depending on what the style is I have a wide range to select from. But I still do not hear the warmth or wood in the 2.1 strats or teles models. if you or others prefer the old or new models that's ok because it is a opinion and a preference which I also have and expressed. 

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Yes I already acknowledged that... no reason to get defensive....

just want to make sure that others don't immediately assume that anyone's opinion is FACT or is some sort majority opinion...

they are both just that... opinions...

anyone interested, try both and go with the one YOU like.

nothing unfair or offensive in my statements....

 

 

 it is a opinion and a preference which I also have and expressed. 

 

it's your preference.... fair enough.

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Yes it is my preference plus I also own quite a few different guitars les paul, SG,  jazz boxes, 12 string just to name a few which doesn't really matter.But as I said the 2.1 models do not come close to my strats or tele. Yes each guitar has it's own voice which allows them to be used in many types of music and styles so depending on what the style is I have a wide range to select from. But I still do not hear the warmth or wood in the 2.1 strats or teles models. if you or others prefer the old or new models that's ok because it is a opinion and a preference which I also have and expressed. 

 

I have alot of guitars... and there are many other guitars i would go for if i wanted "fuller and warmer" before i would pick up a strat or a tele....

just saying...

i personally think that 2.x is far superior more dynamics and more distinction between the models...

clearly a subjective topic and clearly you disagree....

but let's not let those that prefer the older models... pretend that noone likes the new ones....

it's your preference.... fair enough.

Oh and I really don't prefer the old vs the new models nor do I pretend that none like the new ones. 

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well I did plug straight into my rig and the difference was night and day 1.9 was fuller and warmer on the spank and t models actually sounded like there was wood in the mix. Volume levels all around were louder and more consistent. Not sure what guitars they modeled but I think for the cost of this instrument and what it promised they need to rethink their sentiment. Maybe the new models reflect the guitars they modeled but I find them weak, tinny and lifeless. The tone of my 3 strats blow 2.1 out of the water. Maybe not being a guitar company is a issue now being owned by Yamaha which makes guitars they might improve on the tones of the models.

 

 

I'd be surprised to see any further updates on the software barring any a bad bug popping up.  I'm just surprised how many people complain but can't make any effort in adjusting their amps/effects for the new models.  I completely agree line6 blew it balance wise with some of the new models  and it's not good of them expecting owners too have to fix it, but that doesn't make the models themselves bad.

 

Dan

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I've been using my JTV59 with v2.1 with tweaked global string volumes and model string volumes for almost a year now and have tweaked my HD500 patches to get my live band tones that I like.  After reading through this thread I thought I would roll back to v1.9 and see whether I would prefer it over v2.1.   I found that when I played v1.9  through my tweaked for v2.1 HD500 patches that things were over driven for many models and for some the sound became very muddy and I realised that I would have to tweak all may HD500 patches back again to get v1.9 sounding like I want, so I decided to put v2.1 back on rather than have to reinvent the wheel and start over with my patches.

 

This demonstrated to me that whatever guitar (real or model) I use - ultimately I tweak my rig to get the sound I like from that guitar.  The guitar models v1.9 and v2.1 are different, just like real strats, les pauls, tele's, semi's are different - and everyone just tweaks their rigs to get the tones they prefer from those different guitars.  And just as with real guitars, someone may prefer one strat to another strat, or one LP to another LP - the same applies to the Line 6 models - they are just different.

 

I think the problem is we have all been playing the same identical computer model at v1.9 which we are all comfortable with, and then we find out that Line 6 have introduced a new improved HD model of the same guitar, so we all assume it will immediately sound much better with our exact same rig set up.  BUT we are wrong because what Line 6 have done is produced improved HD models of physically DIFFERENT guitars of the same or similar models as before - and we have to re-tweak our rig to get the new models to sound as we want and that is what catches us all out. 

 

I approached the v2.x models thinking they were improved versions of v1.9 and therefore, I was initially disappointed because they sounded so different and did not seem to work very well with my HD500 patches, and I had to do a lot of tweaking to get the sounds I wanted.  When I eventually found out that the v2.x models were actually different guitars, I still could not get my head around why they sounded so different through my set up.  Rolling back to v1.9 was what I needed to finally have the penny drop and understand they are DIFFERENT and that the HD500 is very sensitive to DIFFERENT guitars and will produce very different results even with the same type of guitar.  

 

Had the v2.x models just been HD versions of the original v1.x modelled guitars, the differences perhaps would have been subtle but better, and we would all have noticed an overall improvement but no major tonal variations through our rigs, and therefore, we all would have been happy.  I know the reason they could not do that was because they did not physically have the same guitar models however,  I think that moving to HD modelling at the same time as modelling physically different guitars caused a mismatch between expectations and what actually delivered resulting in some users being disappointed.

 

With the benefit of hindsight,  wouldn't it have been great if the new range of HD modelled guitars had first been made available as a different model pack available under v1.9 pre-HD modelling - perhaps as a new fw release v1.91 - and then when a user upgraded from that v1.91 to the v2.x HD versions of the same models they could have made accurate comparisons.   I can understand why Line 6 could not afford to do that - but it certainly would have managed everyones expectations better - firstly that the model set had changed and then secondly that the models had then been improved with HD modelling - so with hindsight it may have been worth the investment?   Obviously the move to v1.91 with a different model set would have caused controversy with users saying they preferred the original models - but at least they would have been clear they were DIFFERENT guitars that were going to be the basis for the new-HD versions and any comparisons would have been able to be made with the same pre-HD modelling.

 

Just my two cents on the subject.

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At this point, I'd be happy if the just remodeled the Strat they used for v2 and correct the string balance on the B and E strings. I know I can adjust them in Workbench but it just doesn't sound or feel right when I play around with those settings.

 

Cheers,

 

jayson

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@edstar 1960 I understand you point about using a HD500 but I go right in my amp a Johnson250 which has all the efects I need to work with any guitar I plug in. After flashing back and forth between 1.9 and 2.1 I noticed that 1.9 kept right up with any other guitar that I own. Yes each guitar was/is different but the tones did not suffer. Yet on 2.1 output was low top two strings were lower then the bottom 4. Strat, tele and jazz boxes on 1.9 were very close to real guitars in 2.1 volume levels were lower, thin and kind of cold not to much wood sound in the guitar model. Acoustics through my recording studio in 1.9 did not sound natural. In 2.1 acoustics were closer to real guitars. Also I did not ever edit the models in 1.9 on my variax 500 used them just as they were and didn't seem to have any problem with how they sound. Got a 69s for 1 a better built guitar to use on stage 2 because the tones worked for me without having to do a lot editing. Yet when I did the update the tones/models the guitar became unusable. It seem no matter  how much editing I did in WB or on the J250 I could not get the tones I was looking for. So I went back to 1.9. The reasons for line6 not modeling the same guitars is understandable but the new tones/models  just don't work for me maybe someone else because everyones ear and needs are different.

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@edstar 1960 I understand you point about using a HD500 but I go right in my amp a Johnson250 which has all the efects I need to work with any guitar I plug in. After flashing back and forth between 1.9 and 2.1 I noticed that 1.9 kept right up with any other guitar that I own. Yes each guitar was/is different but the tones did not suffer. Yet on 2.1 output was low top two strings were lower then the bottom 4. Strat, tele and jazz boxes on 1.9 were very close to real guitars in 2.1 volume levels were lower, thin and kind of cold not to much wood sound in the guitar model. Acoustics through my recording studio in 1.9 did not sound natural. In 2.1 acoustics were closer to real guitars. Also I did not ever edit the models in 1.9 on my variax 500 used them just as they were and didn't seem to have any problem with how they sound. Got a 69s for 1 a better built guitar to use on stage 2 because the tones worked for me without having to do a lot editing. Yet when I did the update the tones/models the guitar became unusable. It seem no matter  how much editing I did in WB or on the J250 I could not get the tones I was looking for. So I went back to 1.9. The reasons for line6 not modeling the same guitars is understandable but the new tones/models  just don't work for me maybe someone else because everyones ear and needs are different.

 

I understand where you are coming from and I had exactly the same experiences when first moving to v2.x.  The string volume difference really dumbfounded me and I raised a support ticket directly with Line 6 as I was convinced that there is some kind of software bug causing that issue for some users. I also raised it on Ideascale to be fixed.  Pre v2.x flash, I never had to tweak with variax guitar settings - the models just seemed to work straight off and were comparable to real guitars.  

 

I did encounter some issues with the first few times I reflashed to v2.x - but eventually I got a clean update and then tried several reflashes and ended up on v2.1.  For some reason, which I still do not understand, after multiple reflashes the new models did not sound as bad as the very first attempt, but the string volume imbalance was still there - so as things sounded better I decided to tweak the string volumes in WB HD, first at the GLOBAL level, and then at a model level for each model I particularly noticed it with.  Once I had done that, I was then in the ball park of the demo's of v2.1 I was hearing online - so I stuck with it and then tweaked my rig settings to reach the tones I wanted - and I have been gigging with that for best part of a year.  

 

At the beginning of the week, I thought I would try moving back to v1.9 to see if I still liked it, and if I preferred it over the v2.1 that I had now been used to playing and immediately I discovered that through my rig everything sounded wrong and that I would have to adjust all my patches to get it to sound right - knowing how long it took me to get things sounding good to my ears, I decided it would be quicker and easier just to return to v2.1.

 

So, I did not actually perform a direct v1.9 to v2.1 comparison as I had done in the past.  However, the experience demonstrated to me, as someone who struggled to get v2.1 to sound as I needed, and someone who was happy with v1.9, that the patches I used and my rig setup were very sensitive to changing guitars and specifically to changing modelled guitars.  Remember, last year I was perfectly happy with v1.9, so I expected that rolling back to it, I would once again be perfectly happy with it - but to my surprise discovered that as everything I had was tweaked to work with v2.1 that now I wasn't happy with it - and of course that same explanation works the other way round - if everything I previously had was tweaked for v1.9, then I would not be happy going to v2.1 straight off.

 

Having said all that - the issues I encountered with the upgrade are real and my first impressions of v2.1, all match your experience and description of v2.1,  and I can't really explain satisfactorily why there is such a big difference and why so much needs to be changed to balance things out to sound good, when I didn't have to do it before, and I don't have to do it so much with real guitars.  There probably is a technical explanation as to why things sound so different, but I think that a major part of it is that they modelled completely different guitars, and another major part of it is that they also used HD modelling technology and the end result is a BIG difference between how the same physical JTV then interacts with your physical rig to how it used to perform with v1.9.   I discovered that I needed to make a lot of changes to my patches and rig setup to shape my tone to get the best out of the new HD guitars and v2.x - and I also needed to tweak the HD models themselves in WB HD and now I have discovered that to go back to v1.9 that I will also have to make a lot of changes to keep a sound I like, and I really didn't expect that - I thought it was going to be an easy move.

 

That is my experience and I am sure everyone else's mileage will vary.   I understand what you are saying that a straight A/B comparison between v1.9 and v2.1 direct to your amp leaves you much preferring the v1.9 sounds - that is exactly where I was a year ago.  I also know there is a problem with the string volume particularly on some models because I had that and I wish it could be fixed without me having to manually tweak stuff.   It's entirely up to you what you do - but if you want the features that come with v2.1 then I think it is worth putting the effort in to tweak things to get the new models to sound good in your set up - if you don't want the new features then maybe it is not worth putting the time in to get v2.1 to sound good to you.

 

Sorry for the long winded reply but I hope that has clarified my position and hopefully helped you decide what you want to do.

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I think the suggestion was for them to offer a downloadable strat model like 1.9 that you could choose to replace the current 2.0 strat.  I could dig that.  While they are at it a few other guitar models too... lol...

 

I think that would require multiple firmware versions. It would be nice if they invented some type of program to build your own firmware to get around the memory constraints. I think it would be amazing and allow them to get us new models.

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I think that would require multiple firmware versions. It would be nice if they invented some type of program to build your own firmware to get around the memory constraints. I think it would be amazing and allow them to get us new models.

don't see why that should be required... Just talking about them modeling a different strat, one closer to the 1.9 sound, and offering it for download as an loadable model.  

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Because each Pickup and Body takes some memory (for the IR)... and the on board memory is limited, so to have a new strat body something else has to get thrown out.

 

The idea of a "personal firmware" where you pick your preferred 20 bodies and 20 pickups to be used is not impossible and theoretically allows infinite modelling, but only if the software was written with this concept in mind in the first place - otherwise it is probably like trying to get an HD500 to set EQ values in Hz.

 

Given that other than a hardware upgrade it is the only way to achieve the numerous New Body + New Pickup requests on IdeaScale http://line6.ideascale.com/a/ideafactory.do?mode=top&discussionFilter=byids&discussionID=45826 it is something L6 must be at least considering, or have considered and then realised that they should have thought of this before they wrote the JTV firmware and it is too late now.

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so after all that I am back with 2.1 and staying there till the next update.  While I did notice a difference with 1.9 on the strat it wasn't enough to stay with it.

 

I think I have found the solution, for me anyways.  First issue is string volume balancing.  I had to take the global volume down 4db on the lower 4 strings.  Top E and B stays at 0.  Next up was to use the Preset Volume slider in WBHD to level out the different models.  I lowered the Lester to -3db and raised just about all the others to +3db.  The other HB models stay at 0 to 2, depending.  Finally my strat and tele models have punch and match up to the LP models.  I took the acoustic models up to +5 since they don't get an amp block anyways.

 

I can now pick a patch on the POD and rotate through all the models and the volume stays pretty level.  Don't know why I never used that before, not sure I even saw anyone mention it but it works for me...

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