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Big difference in Strat tones from version 2.1 to 1.9...

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so after all that I am back with 2.1 and staying there till the next update.  While I did notice a difference with 1.9 on the strat it wasn't enough to stay with it.

 

I think I have found the solution, for me anyways.  First issue is string volume balancing.  I had to take the global volume down 4db on the lower 4 strings.  Top E and B stays at 0.  Next up was to use the Preset Volume slider in WBHD to level out the different models.  I lowered the Lester to -3db and raised just about all the others to +3db.  The other HB models stay at 0 to 2, depending.  Finally my strat and tele models have punch and match up to the LP models.  I took the acoustic models up to +5 since they don't get an amp block anyways.

 

I can now pick a patch on the POD and rotate through all the models and the volume stays pretty level.  Don't know why I never used that before, not sure I even saw anyone mention it but it works for me...

 

Good for you, though I think the level imbalance, which is on purpose because a strat and les paul have different volume levels because one is a single coil and one is a humbucker, kind of plays roll in the tone, but workbench is there to adjust to your preference.

 

Some of you should try to mess with Workbench more, it's a great tool and is about 50% the salepoint of the guitar imo.

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Hi. I am here for the first time. My name is Tom and I'm a guitar player from Poland. I spent some time today and I recorded my JTV69 sample. Samples difference v2.1 and v1.9 sound. Image shows the amplifier and the setting for electric guitars samples. Acoustic instruments recorded without effects and amp simulation.

 

http://youtu.be/xs8b9SYj8Z4

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@Orzel: Great demo (nice Jamiroquaiish -"Cosmic girl"ish! :P - guitar playing and chord progression BTW)!

 

The differences are huge. I'm especially stumped by the differences between the Spank - neck+middle, one of my favorite models/sounds.

 

I'm not an experienced Strat player (I just recently bought a Squier Strat) but to my ears the 1.9 model is much more true to the real strat: open sounding, bright but lush with some nice quack. Actually all 1.9 models (except the acoustic ones) sound quite a lot better to my ears.... Damn.

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here is a live demo of v2.10 JTV Spank pos 1.

 

patch used:   http://line6.com/customtone/tone/426873/

 

on path B it just feeds the v2.10 JTV spank sound via a Tube Comp with a 40 ms delay.

what do u think?  is it acceptable?

is 1.9 better sounding?

Its a bit hard to hear to tell. Do you have a board mix where you can isolate the guitar? BTW Are you playing direct or through a DT?

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Question - if one rolls back to 1.9, and accordingly to the original workbench, what functionality is lost compared to workbenchHD? What does WBHD offer that the original does not? Any comparison chart or such available?

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@Orzel: Great demo (nice Jamiroquaiish guitar playing and chord progression BTW)!

 

The differences are huge. I'm especially stumped by the differences between the Spank - neck+middle, one of my favorite models/sounds.

 

I'm not an experienced Strat player (I just recently bought a Squier Strat) but to my ears the 1.9 model is much more true to the real strat: open sounding, bright but lush with some nice quack. Actually all 1.9 models (except the acoustic ones) sound quite a lot better to my ears.... Damn.

I agree. T-model and Lester Spank v1.9 sounds better. In my opinion, acoustic instruments are also better. After updating to v2.1 acoustic guitars are very dark, droning in the low band. Through a very bad mix it with other instruments such as drums, bass and piano. I think the firmware v2.1 is much worse than v1.9. This is of course my opinion.

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Its a bit hard to hear to tell. Do you have a board mix where you can isolate the guitar? BTW Are you playing direct or through a DT?

 

xlr direct stereo 2 pa.

yes i have a board mix, when i have time, i'll post the guitar track soloed.

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@Orzel: I agree partially with you on the acoustic models. I can imagine the 2.1 ones will drown in the mix but they sound warmer, more full bodied and lush. A bit of EQ can do miracles in the mix I think whereas the electric models sound so different that even appllying EQ is not enough to make them sound like the 1.9 models.

 

On a side note: you do like Jamiroquai don't you? I just realised what your playing reminded me of... I know it's not the same but very much alike to the guitar in "Cosmic Girl" ;)

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per string volume adjustments, and some dream rig integration stuff off the top of my head.

 

Question - if one rolls back to 1.9, and accordingly to the original workbench, what functionality is lost compared to workbenchHD? What does WBHD offer that the original does not? Any comparison chart or such available?

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nice sounding nico.
may b some delay flavor wld fit in the mix in order 2 approximate david sound.

ps
since we r talkin about studio recordings, here is our money studio cover (transposed 2 dm).
this is an old one, with "traditional" gear (1972 strat+prosonic custom shop tube amp, no digital equipment, c attached foto).

post-1403107-0-53535200-1404982295_thumb.gif
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Personally I want a JTV because I really want to try the HD sounds for myself. Sometimes the Les Paul model is a little lacking, and I really want a good humbucker sound. 

 

I've seen demos of the 1.9 strat and 2.0 strat and I get that they sound different so it's alienating, but a lot of the comparisons I've seen of 2.0 to a real strat sound really good.

 

Not to mention that 2.0 doesn't sound like it has a high cut filter like the 1.9 models do. It'll help get a crisper sound and let the tonality ring out better, even if the cabinet already does some high end cutting already.

 

I would like the option to have 1.9 if I ever do want it, so I'm not getting the Yamaha guitars since they're HD only, but I'm sure I'll stick to HD.

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Its a bit hard to hear to tell. Do you have a board mix where you can isolate the guitar? BTW Are you playing direct or through a DT?

 

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I like it! Nice job! Good patch!

Still can't tell which version sounds best from your clip. No chance you played the same song with version 1.9 at the same show and have that board mix as well? No? Rats!

 

It wouldn't matter anyway. The models all sound pretty good when processed to kingdom come. Playing a simple clean patch through one clean amp is where the weirdness seems to creep in.  All of the processing hides the weird tone foibles. 

 

Bottom line, the clip you shared is you trying to sound like someone else who is known the world over for a super processed guitar tone. And for the most part, mission impressively accomplished. That is really all that matters; Is it getting the job done. The answer in this case is Yes!

 

But if you want to sound like someone who really only plugs a guitar into an amp with little to no processing, like a Robben Ford for example, you're gonna have to do some work. Not saying that it can't be done. It's just not as easy to me.

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tboneous, tks 4 ur comments :)

no, i do not have a board mix with 1.9...

and, yes, if u wanna sound like someone who really only plugs a guitar in2 an amp, u have 2 do some work...

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I'll give this a try when I get my replacement. I don't think the new Strat isn't good, but yes, it's different than the old one for sure.

 

Switching between magnetics and modeled doesn't sound too off on my 69s though. Sounds pretty loyal, though of course, a 69s isn't going to sound the same as a 1960's strat even if it's the same ideal pickups and body shape.

 

I would think that switching between 1.9 modeling and magnetics would sound more awkward though from the decent high end cut that the old modeling has.

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It's true the Spank or fender Stratocaster is a very bad emulation,is thin,lifeless,low volume and worst sound I've ever hear...the members of my band always used to think is the acoustic when I use it, so no more for me,I quit use the Spank,my main is the Lester then the semi and last the telecaster. I love the Stratocaster sound in fact I played with an American standard strat before buy the variax and I love it,but not this thing,Is a very poor emulation. Don't know if playing in home alone with backingtracks it sounds good but for a live situation with a drummer and bass player is bad,i play all the week live,hotels,bars and restaurants. And for me the Spank just don't sound good,really I dont understand why line 6 can't see it..

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I disagree... i find the new strat to be far more accurate to the strats i've had....

that's why its a subjective topic...

its not hard to make 2 strats sound different....

its also not hard to find people with different opinions as to which one sounds better...

that's the beauty of workbench... 

and being able to try other peoples tones like the one arislaf linked you to.

 

It's true the Spank or fender Stratocaster is a very bad emulation,is thin,lifeless,low volume and worst sound I've ever hear...the members of my band always used to think is the acoustic when I use it, so no more for me,I quit use the Spank,my main is the Lester then the semi and last the telecaster. I love the Stratocaster sound in fact I played with an American standard strat before buy the variax and I love it,but not this thing,Is a very poor emulation. Don't know if playing in home alone with backingtracks it sounds good but for a live situation with a drummer and bass player is bad,i play all the week live,hotels,bars and restaurants. And for me the Spank just don't sound good,really I dont understand why line 6 can't see it..

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I disagree... i find the new strat to be far more accurate to the strats i've had....

that's why its a subjective topic...

its not hard to make 2 strats sound different....

its also not hard to find people with different opinions as to which one sounds better...

that's the beauty of workbench... 

and being able to try other peoples tones like the one arislaf linked you to.

 

Very subjective...I find that it works OK for the "barely-there" gain tones...where the amp is just starting to break up, think SRV rhythm tones...but if you want to push it at all for a thicker Eric Johnson-type lead tone, I just can't get it there. They seem to have modeled a Strat with super low-output pickups. On the plus side, I kinda like the single coils in the 69...but the noise is maddening, as it is with all single coils.

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It's true the Spank or fender Stratocaster is a very bad emulation,is thin,lifeless,low volume and worst sound I've ever hear...the members of my band always used to think is the acoustic when I use it, so no more for me,I quit use the Spank,my main is the Lester then the semi and last the telecaster. I love the Stratocaster sound in fact I played with an American standard strat before buy the variax and I love it,but not this thing,Is a very poor emulation. Don't know if playing in home alone with backingtracks it sounds good but for a live situation with a drummer and bass player is bad,i play all the week live,hotels,bars and restaurants. And for me the Spank just don't sound good,really I dont understand why line 6 can't see it..

 

I think you should do an A/B test with the Spank model and your Strat. You might be surprised. The emulation was very close to mine.

 

I think the thing is that Strats are probably the most popular electric guitar on the planet, and because of that, they are also the most modified. If I remember correctly, I believe Line 6 modeled a 50s Strat, so it's not really surprising that it's a lower output than many of us our used to. Guitars of that era generally didn't have hot pickups, as it really wasn't what players wanted back then.

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Very subjective...I find that it works OK for the "barely-there" gain tones...where the amp is just starting to break up, think SRV rhythm tones...but if you want to push it at all for a thicker Eric Johnson-type lead tone, I just can't get it there. They seem to have modeled a Strat with super low-output pickups. On the plus side, I kinda like the single coils in the 69...but the noise is maddening, as it is with all single coils.

 

You can fix that easy though, throw a clean boost pedal in front the amp you using, leave it own all the time. Instant hot single coil pickups.  Okay not exactly the same but it might get you in the ball park you looking for.

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I think you should do an A/B test with the Spank model and your Strat. You might be surprised. The emulation was very close to mine.

 

I think the thing is that Strats are probably the most popular electric guitar on the planet, and because of that, they are also the most modified. If I remember correctly, I believe Line 6 modeled a 50s Strat, so it's not really surprising that it's a lower output than many of us our used to. Guitars of that era generally didn't have hot pickups, as it really wasn't what players wanted back then.

 

I still play my Strat regularly...A/B'd them 1000 times. Even the stock single coils on the Strat are hotter than the modeled ones. Now that doesn't make the model "bad", just different. Same goes for A/B-ing the model with the 69's mags. With the same patch, there's a huge difference in gain...again, that doesn't make one better than the other, but you could still hear the difference if your ears were packed with mud...

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I still play my Strat regularly...A/B'd them 1000 times. Even the stock single coils on the Strat are hotter than the modeled ones. Now that doesn't make the model "bad", just different. Same goes for A/B-ing the model with the 69's mags. With the same patch, there's a huge difference in gain...again, that doesn't make one better than the other, but you could still hear the difference if your ears were packed with mud...

 

Don't doubt your experience, but with my 69US, I actually don't notice a large difference in volume between the mags and the Spank model. Could just be difference in setup, I suppose.

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Don't doubt your experience, but with my 69US, I actually don't notice a large difference in volume between the mags and the Spank model. Could just be difference in setup, I suppose.

 

Or how things are tweaked in Workbench...I don't keep the action insanely low, and there's no fret buzz to speak of...but like many others, when I moved to the newer JTV firmware, I found the Spank model to incredibly tinny and basically unusable...nails on a chalkboard compared to the prior version. It required dialing back the string volumes, mostly on the E, A, and D strings to get rid of the tin-can clank that I suddenly had, so that accounts for some of the difference. But you can't blame the difference on the set-up, because nothing had changed from on minute to the next except the firmware...from one version to the next, the Strat models are worlds apart.

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I disagree... i find the new strat to be far more accurate to the strats i've had....

that's why its a subjective topic...

its not hard to make 2 strats sound different....

its also not hard to find people with different opinions as to which one sounds better...

that's the beauty of workbench... 

and being able to try other peoples tones like the one arislaf linked you to.

 

Even then, going in and out of modeling to mags on my 69s sounds very close. The only time I can hear a difference is running the signal dry.

 

Again, every single guitar sounds different from one another, even the guitars that were produced the same year and design can end up sounding different.

 

Expecting a 50's/60's strat to sound like a modern strat is ridiculous.

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I dont want a modern strat sound,ok it can be modern or oldie I don't care,just want a good and usable strat sound just like the ones I heard before in videos of the variax that convince me to buy the guitar. This is not the sound I hear. I think the worst part of this strat sound is the lack of body.

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I dont want a modern strat sound,ok it can be modern or oldie I don't care,just want a good and usable strat sound just like the ones I heard before in videos of the variax that convince me to buy the guitar. This is not the sound I hear. I think the worst part of this strat sound is the lack of body.

 

Well like I said, I switch between magnetics and Spank on my 69s (sss config) and it sounds nearly identical. There is a small high roll off on the modeling, but that's about it.

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rollback to the old version then... i don't understand what the complaint is...

it's still available to you....

 

I dont want a modern strat sound,ok it can be modern or oldie I don't care,just want a good and usable strat sound just like the ones I heard before in videos of the variax that convince me to buy the guitar. This is not the sound I hear. I think the worst part of this strat sound is the lack of body.

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I am getting tones nearly identical to records from the 60s and 70s with the Variax JTV strat emulation with the HD500 Fender Twin amp. The other guitarist in our band who is an analog and tube fanatic, has told me he wishes he could get that sound out of his rig. The only effects I am using are a tube screamer in front of the amp and some reverb after the amp.

 

-Max

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I dont want a modern strat sound,ok it can be modern or oldie I don't care,just want a good and usable strat sound just like the ones I heard before in videos of the variax that convince me to buy the guitar. This is not the sound I hear. I think the worst part of this strat sound is the lack of body.

Then just try my f ucking patch  that is already provided to you or roll back... You have the tools but lack the will huh?

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Someone said something about a parameter EQ on the Variax. modeling. I think this would be amazing, but I'm not sure if Line 6 could fit that into the guitar, memory or processor-wise.

 

Would be nice to have a 3 band EQ to shape up the tone a bit more. Sometimes the patch sounds great, but just needs more bass or treble, or whatever.

 

Yes I know that we can just throw an EQ in front of our chain, but I just think it would be cool. Might help kill the whining, and it'll expand Workbench.

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Hi guys. I was looking for a sound "quacky" for my JTV-89 and the best that I found is the following combinations:

Strat to JTV by Glauco Fulco:
Body: Masonite Plank
Pickups: Spank Single Coil Bridge for all positions (N, NM, M, MB, Bridge)
Strings: 100% for all
Pots:
   Volume: 250 kOhms - Taper: audio
   Tone: 250 kOhms Capacitance: 47 nF

Neutral Body

About Workbench: Version: 2.10.0

 

I hope that helps someone

 

Hugs

 

Glauco Fulco

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After reading this thread, I have to agree with those that feel spank and some other models have an incredibly week B and high E string. When playing with my band these strings vanish in the mix, and that is with me reducing the string volumes for all the other strings and boosting the output and volume if the pickups.

 

 

I figured I just had very weak piezos on these strings, but I now see that it appears to be the version of the software. 

 

My JTV59 is new, and shipped with the HD models. Last night I decided to roll back to 1.9. It seems to make a big difference volume-wise with the B and high E strings. Also, the annoying "plinking" sound when palm-muting the low E has disappeared. I haven't really put anything through its paces until I play with the rest of the band, so Thursday night will provide me with more insight as to whether or not I like 1.9 better than 2.1.

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After reading this thread, I have to agree with those that feel spank and some other models have an incredibly week B and high E string. When playing with my band these strings vanish in the mix, and that is with me reducing the string volumes for all the other strings and boosting the output and volume if the pickups.

 

 

I figured I just had very weak piezos on these strings, but I now see that it appears to be the version of the software.

 

My JTV59 is new, and shipped with the HD models. Last night I decided to roll back to 1.9. It seems to make a big difference volume-wise with the B and high E strings. Also, the annoying "plinking" sound when palm-muting the low E has disappeared. I haven't really put anything through its paces until I play with the rest of the band, so Thursday night will provide me with more insight as to weather or not I like 1.9 better than 2.1.

I couldn't find the thread, but a while back someone posted some custom models, mixing and matching various body/pickup combos in Workbench that were A LOT closer to the Strat models from the older firmware. I didn't much care for the newer ones either, but I didn't want to lose everything else in 2.1, so I've been using then for a while now, and find that I'm quite happy with the results. Don't remember who it was who created them, perhaps he'll chime in.

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keep in mind though that the volume differences are an improvement... NOT a defect....

the HD models better represent the true dynamics between the different guitars....

lots of people could care less... and would rather just have them all be the same level....

and others prefer authenticity...

i prefer you at least know the why... then you can make your own informed decision.

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If you want the levels the same then you can do that in WB.  The guitars that they modeled would all have different outputs if you played them so the models do too.

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