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Stagescape Version 2 planned?


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Yeah , like ... what the heck ? I've owned the mixer for 2 years. No NEW updates to the software at all ?!!!!

For one thing , there should be a back button on their screen , to go to the previous screen. And an undo , for things like EQ changes , so you can compare changes. Simple but extremely important functions MISSING.

I feel like Line6 has abandoned the stagescape product all together. Price drop and no updates. Very disappointed.

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they do post.... rarely... and they NEVER post about what they are working on....

so threads like this are always just other users speculating...

they will not give you an answer here...

having said all that...

i'm positive that they are not done with stagescape etc...

surely more to come... and they would probably tell you as much...

but nothing specific.

 

Anyone from line6 around ?

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Yes , I have 1.2. It's basically the original software , other than than the beta version it was released with. I've got another show coming up , and I think I'm going to abandon ship , despite the money I threw at this thing when it was released , compared to now. $ 1000 - less ?

... That alone tells me they've accepted that it's value has dropped. I tried to contact line6 , but their website makes you create a support ticket for a fix. This was the only place I saw to express my opinion.

Maybe after I throw this toy box on the stone wall , line6 will have an update for a few handy features , but then again , maybe not. Giving up , getting my hands on some FADERS !!!!

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Yeah , like ... what the heck ? I've owned the mixer for 2 years. No NEW updates to the software at all ?!!!!

For one thing , there should be a back button on their screen , to go to the previous screen. And an undo , for things like EQ changes , so you can compare changes. Simple but extremely important functions MISSING.

I feel like Line6 has abandoned the stagescape product all together. Price drop and no updates. Very disappointed.

 

You can navigate almost directly anywhere from anywhere!  

I don't see a need for a back button other than perhaps an old habit of navigating on another system?

 

I know it's not the same thing but you can turn any effect on and off to compare it's effect to the unaffected sound.. And with the touchscreen you can boost, flat or cut frequencies on the EQ so fast that an undo function would get very little use in my hands  :rolleyes:  :D

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Yeah , ok.

To be able to navigate forward and backward through the pages we have been on would make WORK FLOW - MUCH faster. With a system like this where you are dependent on "pages" instead of an actual tactile mixing board with faders and all associated knobs.

... and yeah , I'm used to using 2 operating systems , IOS AND ANDROID. they both use forward and back buttons. IPad. Rolleyes. Lol

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  • 2 weeks later...

I too am disappointed in the mixer! i was very excited to get. It has taken some time to adjust

But, now I paid 5 of 8 payments for a total of $1999.00

And they drop the price $500!

 

Can any one tell me how to display the actual channel in order on the screen.

I'm plugged in to channel one but, my mic shows up as channel 2 on the mixer

And so on... Theres no fix I can find.can't get the channels to line up with inputs,they go whereever they want!

Very poor ... Implementation.

I can't use the mixer well stand alone because I can hardly see the damn thing!

I am stuck using an ipad which isn't alot better!

 

I bought a A&H zed 60-10fx and it sounds and works great for my duo!

 

They need to rethink these digital little boxes. Need tacktile!

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I too am disappointed in the mixer! i was very excited to get. It has taken some time to adjust

But, now I paid 5 of 8 payments for a total of $1999.00

And they drop the price $500!

 

Can any one tell me how to display the actual channel in order on the screen.

I'm plugged in to channel one but, my mic shows up as channel 2 on the mixer

And so on... Theres no fix I can find.can't get the channels to line up with inputs,they go whereever they want!

Very poor ... Implementation.

 

Well.. in the electronics world if you buy when something first comes out, it is very, very typical to see a price drop sometime latter. Solution: wait a little while. This also allows time for reviews to filter in and for defects to be fixed or updates issued.

 

As for channel assignments - this is all explained in the manual. You can move them around easily. You can 'hold and drag' the icons in the lower row, and you can re-assign inputs to XLR's/Jacks by just touching them. Easy. No probem at all.  Fully explained in the manual....

 

The A&H is a good little mixer, but cannot really be compared to the M20D. The M20D is in a totally different class. Must confess I have had no problems figuiring it out or using it at all. I found it very intuitive and only had to consult the manual on a few points.

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As far as the time that I bought the mixer, it's been a couple of years since it came out.

I bought mine in May and actually still have 3 payments left at AMS.

Not to mention this is not a small drop in price $500! That means to sell it ai loose big time.

 

I will experiment a bit more with the order but, I am having the problem in MIXER MODE

Not on the reg. mix screen. I know you can assign the icon to a channel but, it doesn't correspond

With the channel in mixer mode. I have my Mic on channel one and it shows this in reg.

Mode when I call up the mixer screen it shows up and channel number two! And channel number

Two vocal is number one. I added a guitar player one day on input 9/10

And it showed up as one in mixer mode?

 

As far as easy not when you need to fix something and your trying to play guitar and sing and take care of your backing tracks set list!

Too many menu's. and I had freeky things happen live,I can't understand.

My left side of my sound was gone then I unplugged it plugged it back again and it

Worked. Nothing wrong with the cables or connection as far as i can see and others.

Just ghost type stuff, I never experienced on other mixers, if i did it would be abad cable

Or something like that.

 

 

 

Thanks for your response.

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Paraphrased from page D-12 of the user guide:

 

* Tap the Show Stage button in the Fader View toolbar

 

* At the bottom of the display, tap and hold the controller strip for the channel you'd like to reposition - its image will pulsate.

 

* Drag that controller strip to the target location; the controller strips will swap position. Repeat for others.

 

Now when you tap Show Faders they should be in the new order.

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Thanks! It worked esay. I guess I was expecting this to work in fader view?...

It was for sale at 1050 on eBay with wifi and card. But, I will try to make this

Work out. Dtill cand understand some other ghost issues that have happened.

I hope i can discover tse issues. In the mean time I'll grab my other mixer if I am not comfortable

For cettain gigs.

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Learning a digital mixer (even this one) can involve a lot more than learning an analog desk... because not only is the operation mode very different, but it is like having several racks full of outboard gear running too....  The M20D is very intuitive compared to some! I am thinking back now to the first time I encountered digital desks.... Tascam TDM 1000 and Korg 168RC..... those things were a nightmare to operate.... and the early Yamaha's were also really hard work!

 

Things have come a long way.

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I've owned the 02r the tascam tdm1000 roland 3100,,the recent Mackie,Presonus and a couple others.

They all had learning crves but, I guess my problem has come down to ez

Of use. And I decided for the small winery gigs that a simple analoge board

does the trick. (A&H 60-10fx.)Maybe it's not as polished but, it's just too hard to get through the menues when your trying to play live gigs. And the Line6 has had some ghosts that

I never did figure out. It sounded great when it ran well.but, I could hardly ever see the screen.

I could see t better on the ipad but,just too much more set up

So, at the end of the daty I just sold it on eBay for $ 950.00

Shipped! Which is very discouraging considering I paid 2k less than 6 months ago.

But, I wanted to move it fast before they drop the price again!

That is a horrible thing.they started at $2400.00

Now it's 1500.00 in less than a 2 year period.I'm not the only one that has complained about it!

I don't see other co. going this goofy on price drops.

I feel cheated and so, now I probably won't buy another Line 6 product.

A bad investment,IMHO!

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BTW, when I bought the 02r I paid 8k for it.

Now you can get them for 500 bucks!

So, the value of digital technology seems to

Be a bad one. There are still a good number of analoge

Boards that still have a better value when compaired to it.

Not knocking them but, they really lose value fast.

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I'd not recommenmd buying them as an investment.... you have to get the value out of them by using them. Same with digital cameras. I paid $4K for one once, now they go for almost nothing.... if I had not been able to generate a lot of sales from images taken with it, it would seem like a bad deal. Fortunately, I did, and I still condider it money well spent.

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Yeah, I just noticed the recent price drop to $1,499; definitely signals a shift in some regard!

It would be nice if they could drop the price on the L3 speakers a comparable amount; right now I just have the pair of L2t's, which 

are great for home and rehearsal, but my rig isn't there yet, in terms of a full live sound PA..

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SSM20D

 

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Line-6-StageScape-M20d-Mixer-107733693-i2398077.gc

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Falling prices on tec is nothing new. Sometimes the price drop signals the imminent release of a newer model, other times it is to reflect changes in the whole marketplace. When the M20d launched it was pretty unique. Now, over 2 years on and Mackie have released, Behringer are about to release and all of a sudden the marketplace is more competitive. I certainly don't begrudge the price I paid for mine this time last year despite it being £400 cheaper now than then... I've had flawless use out of it for that year with no grumbles at all.

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There is no "flaw" in the TouchMix. The video compares the TouchMix to the Mackie (which uses an iPad).

 

The iPad screen supports multi-touch, which is why he can move two faders at once. The TouchMix screen is not multi-touch, so it isn't expected to be able to do the same thing.

 

Using the iPad remote for the TouchMix, it is probably possible.

 

 

But I agree that there's now competition from Mackie (who dropped their price $100) and the $1299 QSC TouchMix.

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I agree with Arne, which is why I cancelled my pending order for the TouchMix-16 and got the StageScape:

 

- Saved gain settings. With our band, we've set the gains once and they don't get accidentally moved;

 

- DSP. The TouchMix doesn't have nearly as much DSP as the StageScape;

 

- Encoder knobs. They're easier to grab than a virtual fader.

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Yep, I'd forgotten about the QSC

 

The only benefit I can see (for me) would be the extra 4 mic pre's. Everything else though is simply comparable or lesser than the stagescape. With the time to studfy what Line6 came out with, you'd have perhaps expected more of the oomph like multi-track recordings etc to make their way into the stageclones, but instead, the *only* thing that seems better is the number of xlr inputs. Certainly not a game changer for me. However, I WOULD consider a version 2 stagescape that offered me 20 distinct XLR inputs, all with full mic pre's and full DSP, since, if you're gonna need more, you might as well have a belt and braces approach!

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Rick,

 

Thanks for the feedback ( we are neighbors - I'm in San Luis Obispo and play in a local surf band " The Dentures" 

 

I'm on the fence  regarding M20d vs Touchmix 16. Going to buy one this week 

 

 

As a long time Line 6 user ( and follower) -  Frankly I'll probably buy the TouchMix16 as it provides a better fit for my current gear and way I work. - for the following reasons:

 

* 3 year warranty from a company that provides excellent global service support network. QSC sells Service Manuals and parts to end users ( I prefer to maintain my own gear when it falls out of warranty)   (Good Luck obtaining a M20D service manual - or parts) 

* 20 channels of recording 32 bit Broadcast Wave Files at either 44.1kHz or 48kHz + 2 Track mix to attached USB 3.0 drive  ( goal is sell live show CDs  - I'll use a Samsung 840 EVO SSD) 

* More XLR  I/O that works with the 6 powered PA cabs I already own - ( no need for L6 Link ) 

* Independent 48V Phantom for all 16 XLR inputs 

*  input Gain Trim controls in the analog domain -  these important gain set elements must occur " pre A/D to  yield optimal SNR and Dynamic range for each channel -  I can label these where they need to stay) 

* I have 3 iPads myself that I can allocate as virtual control panels  =  each screen running different views of the array of controls I need instant access to during sound check. 

* I feel the Touchmix16 will be more traditional to operate and far easier for me and my band to understand (less cartoons ) and support for 10 iPads to members to adjust monitor mix with less training.

* Lower Latency ( under 1.6ms Input to Output) 

* After the Yamaha  acquisition of Line 6  - I'm NOT expecting any further Line 6 firmware updates on M20D - (2 year old products are legacy in this world  

* After weeks of research,  its annoying that a true Block Diagram Signal Flow chart is no where to be found for M20D

(Touchmix 16 Block Diagram is here on page 63 :

http://qsc.com/files/3114/1278/3382/TD-000472-00-A.pdf

1413290021_2050647065_ScreenShot20141014

 

 

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Thanks for the feedback ( we are neighbors - I'm in San Luis Obispo and play in a local surf band " The Dentures" 

 

* After weeks of research,  its annoying that a true Block Diagram Signal Flow chart is no where to be found for M20D

 

 

Neat. I haven't caught you guys playing. My band is the Jukebox Heroes. http://www.jukeboxheroesband.com

 

The block diagram for the M20d is on the Resources page, in the Specifications document: StageScape M20d Specifications

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*  input Gain Trim controls in the analog domain -  these important gain set elements must occur " pre A/D to  yield optimal SNR and Dynamic range for each channel -  I can label these where they need to stay)

 

 

Stevekc,

 

The input gains (Trim controls) on StageScape are in the analog domain (pre AD). They are analog mic pre amps (TI Burr Brown) that can be digitally controlled and stored and recalled.

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The input gains (Trim controls) on StageScape are in the analog domain (pre AD). They are analog mic pre amps (TI Burr Brown) that can be digitally controlled and stored and recalled.

 

 

Yes now that I have reviewed the M20D Block Diagram I can see that detail now 

Thanks! 

 

( lots of distractions lately! ;)

 

http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=17738

 

 

mixer.png

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That in the picture above my post, is exactly what line 6 needs to incorporate into the m20d. I don't know how...not my job...but I think I want one. Damn! I thought I was done buying gear for a while! I bet the line 6 speakers would sound just as awesome through a mackie board! I find myself doing more sound than playing these days. Would sure love more ins and outs.

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Its becoming a crowded market with lots of choices. 

( and thats not counting the recent  Behringer X32 and Presonus offerings - that i'm not interested in) 

 

I was ready to order a Touchmix 16 this week - but if I wait and save up a bit more -( and postpone my iPhone  6 Plus upgrade another month ;)   the DL32R seems like it might suit my needs a while longer than most - it has a killer feature set -doubles as a 32in / 32 out  Audio interface for my 2012 Mac,  and reviewing the DL32R block diagram  and I/O count - it allows me to create my own inserts for older third party external hardware FX (remember those?) and is advertised to allow incorporation of  PC/Mac hosted VSTi FXs -

the Mackie Master Fader app ( that wil be updated soon to fully support the DL32R (you can download today a  trial ) reveals tap tempo for delays and excellent para EQ

controls too -  - but then it is a 33 pound box that needs a road case  - while the Touchmix16 in its softcase wont scuff the interior of my vehicle, and hey do I really need 32 inputs? (rather like asking do I need another guitar - yes) 

 1413403776_1742659022_D32R.PNG

 

Master-Fader-3-FX.jpg

 

 

Master-Fader-3-IO-Patch.jpg

 

Master-Fader-3-Vintage-Comp-Gate.jpg

 

Master-Fader-3-Overview.jpg

 

Master-Fader-3-Output-PEQ.jpg

 

 

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With all the wifi congestion (pollution?) around, remote control---on any mixer brand---could be subject to dropouts and problems in communication.

 

With a system that only works over wifi, I'd be really nervous.

 

The most important question: How thoroughly do (or can) the manufacturers make the remote system bulletproof? If there's a dropout---for a few data packets or two minutes---what will happen to the sound system? I can foresee situations where one might even have to reboot a router. At that point, IP addresses change for all the connected gear.

 

It's also risky joining an existing wifi network at a venue, since you have no idea of their network configuration or their possible intention to reboot it at any time. You certainly have to bring your own network and ensure that it's not in conflict with existing wifi transmissions.

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My main problem with the Mackie DL series is that the effects processors are pretty bad sounding; I haven't found one reverb I like.  Also they only have 3 stereo FX chains, and for a 32 input system, 4 is minimum to me.  

 

IMO, they fixed all the 'hardware' issues that should have been in the smaller DL's (no gain knob, multitrack recording) as well as adding Dante support, but the UI looks more cluttered now, (harder to find what you need to tweak), and the effects are still the same icky sounding ones.

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Thanks again to everyone for all the advice here! 

 

FWIW - after much thought - re-avaluating my current needs I ordered the TouchMix 16 - its perfect fit.

 

 

I decided against the Mackie DL32R  -  after the reports of poor FX and , risk of no control in Wi-Fi congested areas,  No Mackie User Forum (boneheaded) 

 

TouchMix16-large.jpg

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QSC Touchmix initial thoughts

 
Its smaller than I thought  - which means its more portable and will go more places.
 
Sounds fantastic and lots of headroom  
 
If you leave the QSC Touchmix external power supply connected to AC Mains power when Touchmix is turned "off" and not in use , the unit remains on the warm side - suggest unplug from AC power when not being used.  
 
Due to the connector its a proprietary external power supply: but similar to an Astrodyne SPU45-303

* INPUT Voltage: 100-240VAC ~ 47-63 Hz 1.35A 42W
* OUTPUT Voltage: 
+5VDC === 5A
+15VDC === 2A 
-15VDC === 0.8A
 
Below is a recent purchase of mine - for using a laptop based virtual rig at a live gig  outdoors in daylight - mounts on a mic stand lets you perform and read QSC Touchmix screen controls in the noon day sun! Mounts on a stand too. Ebay $159
 
Might work for StageScape M20D users too. 
 
Just avoid using this as a shelf for your beer!
 
 
SKB - Model Number: 3I-18135SNSC
 
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