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Control M20D with Android tablet?

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I agree that iPads cost more than the plethora of Android tablets, but they provide several advantages for the development of an app by a company:

 

1. A well-documented software development system from one vendor, Apple. This includes simulators for testing on Mac computers before even working with the IOS device;

 

2. Software compatibility among IOS devices: most iPad and iPhone models;

 

3. Thousands of IOS app developers available to do the work;

 

4. Consistent hardware and OS, whereas every make/model of Android tablet could be different.

 

These three factors make it much easier for app development.

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That's all to the advantage of Line6 and not to the consumers.

 

Also, I don't agree with points 3 and 4, point 2 is irrelevant since there's no way to control the M20D using an iPhone, and point 1 is questionable since many developers make Android apps.

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"That's all to the advantage of Line6 and not to the consumers." - wrong.. it not to the advantage to consumers who doesnt own and iPad..

 

"Also, I don't agree with points 3 and 4, point 2 is irrelevant since there's no way to control the M20D using an iPhone"  - rumors have it that there will be a "light" version to be used on iPhone.

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Well, these are only our opinions. (But as a 30-year veteran software developer, I think I have a good perspective on software.)

 

Of course using IOS is an advantage to Line6, more than it is for customers---if it were harder to develop an app, they might never have done so, or it might have taken much longer to accomplish. Remember, any company has to justify the budget for developing an app. It isn't just software: there's a lot of group effort that goes into the design and usability testing for an app.

 

As for an iPhone app, its existence is made possible because the app is developed under IOS. There's no technical reason the iPhone wouldn't work. (Of course, an iPhone app would need a totally different user interface due to the small screen size, but the majority of the code wouldn't need rewriting.) Is this true for Android tablets and phones? Maybe; I don't know.

 

Are all models of Android tablets the same? Same programming interfaces, screen size/resolution, switches, buttons, etc? Again, I don't know. But if they're different, then this becomes a big problem for the app. You eventually end up saying "The app runs on these models of Android tablets, and no others. Sorry."

 

Every vendor wants to standardize his product, so they're all alike for consumer appeal. Then each one changes his to make it "a little better" than the next guy. The result is minor differences across the product lines. It's not a problem for a consumer who only owns one device, but a nightmare for a software developer to write specialized code and interface elements for different models.

 

A nontechnical reason I can think of is the availability of tablets. You can buy an Apple iPad most anywhere in the world; if you were to need specific Android tablet models, would this be the case?

 

Again, it's opinion. I'm happy to have an app available. If Line6 went only with Android and it took a year longer to get an app, would you be happy waiting? And if your supported model broke and was discontinued, now you're shopping around?

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IIRC, it is to do with the inherent audio latency issues within Android that make it unusable.

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>it is to do with the inherent audio latency issues within Android that make it unusable

 

The iPad M20d app is 'just' a remote control. No audio data will be created and/or processed, so Android-Audio-Latency does not matter at all.

I think the Line6 software development department is out of date.

With a modern development environment like Xamarin it is no problem to publish software to both iOS and Android with minimal effort.

 

Just look at the apps for Behringer X32. iOS, Android (by a third party), PC, Mac. Monthly Bugfixes and Updates.

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With a modern development environment like Xamarin it is no problem to publish software to both iOS and Android with minimal effort.

Wow, I'm certainly out of touch there. (I was always working in the OS and never in applications, so I suppose I have an excuse for not knowing about solutions like this.) Of course, one must learn C#; I'm great at C and good with C++, not that I code any more. For the past 12 years I've done independent Mac support; I might only code a little personal project now and then.

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We have a pair of iPads (4th gen and Mini) + a couple of Samsung Galaxy Android Tabs, and indeed, there are many apps that have versions for both. In some respects, I prefer the Galaxy units: they have excellent wi-fi performance (often locking onto networks that the iPads can't manage to connect to at all), it is very easy and straightforward to transfer files to/from Mac (or PC), and the removable 32Gb memory card (at very low cost) is great. In fact, I ended up buying the larger iPad purely to run the Stagescape app... which bumped up the 'cost of admission' substantially.... and must deter some potential customers, at least.

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I'm just looking for a new PA System for our band. We will use it in our rehearsal room as well as a monitorig system on stage.

So I thought, the M20D would be a great alternative to conventional mixers. But when I read that Android Tablets are not supported (so far), one of the killer features (to remote control the mixer) isn't available to us because we do not own an iPad.

 

That's the reason why we won't buy a M20D so far. And I think that many other people won't buy it for the same reason. What a pitty because the M20D is a great piece of technique.

 

Maybe Line6 will change it's mind when they recognice that the cost-advantage of developing only for iPad turns in a turnover-disadvantage because Android users won't buy the M20D.

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it's a 2000$ mixer....

the argument can be made that people who can buy one... can also buy a 200$ ipad.

sure android would be easy for you since you already own one....

and i have nothing against android....

if that stops you from buying one, maybe you just don't want it bad enough?

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It's a grumble brought up many many times and one for which there has been a perfectly good answer given. If Android control is a deal breaker, go buy something that offers android control... there's considerably more that don't than do!

 

I didn't own an iPad at the time, but it didn't put me off... I just went out and bought an iPad too.

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I also don't understand why Line6 wont do an Android app.

I mean, for God sake, almost every other mixer on the market does have apps for both platforms. 

 

 

As for the excuse of every Android device being different, It deserves my BIG LOL!

Every windows PC is different, never stopped anyone making programs for windows! The Android "play store" is full apps, some of them very simple and amateur, that work flawlessly across all android devices!  

 

In my opinion this is just Line6 thinking that people should just by an Ipad so that they can save some money on app development (and is not even that much money).

 

I don't like "IThings". In my opinion Apple does overpriced fashion products with a very closed system that takes away all the control from the user!

The damn things don't accept memory cards, so I can´t store my stuff, and don't even work connected to a PC without syncing to an apple program (Itunes). I buy the device and I end up not even owning the content I put into it! What a joke!   

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With a modern development environment like Xamarin it is no problem to publish software to both iOS and Android with minimal effort.

 

 

As a modern software developer, I can say you are entirely incorrect.    This image shows how many different hardware/os configurations an android developer has to support: Android-fragmentation.png  vs iOS: ios_fragmentation.png-900x424.png.  This images shows the different screen sizes that you have to take in to account as an android dev vs iOS dev:  screen-sizes-android-ios.png.

 

IDE's might make it easier to port a code base, but the UI elements are hell to manage on android, and the fact that each hardware implementation of android is different makes any app much more susceptible to bugs because you can't test on each hardware model without a significant time and cost commitment. 

 

Bottom line:  iOS:  stable code, stable hardware, less likely to crash especially in a mission-critical environment (i.e. running sound)

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sheesh!. did this thread just turn into a "i dont like apple products, therefore its bad" -thread??

 

I do love to see ppl who have no idea of programming shout their heads off about things they no nothing about.

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sheesh!. did this thread just turn into a "i dont like apple products, therefore its bad" -thread??

 

I do love to see ppl who have no idea of programming shout their heads off about things they no nothing about.

 

At the moment I control my M20d the "normal" way. The mixer is usually by my side on stage so is not difficult. 

 

When an occasion arises were I have to use the M20d at FOH position I'll rather get a conventional stage box with multicable (don't know the right name in English) than get an IPad! 

 

That's because I don't have any other use for the IPad, it would just be a very expensive remote control for the M20d. :unsure:    

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sheesh!. did this thread just turn into a "i dont like apple products, therefore its bad" -thread??

."......

The words android and Linux have very similar effects. They each generate heated expressions of the evils of Apple and Microsoft. Best to avoid those words, except in the church of the devotees.

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Android is not "class compliant" and it is also much slower. Each Android manufacturer has their own version of the operating system. That means you have to create a number of apps and that drives costs.

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Don is 100% right-on.

 

Line6 would have to create lots of similar (but different) apps and test them all individually. That's a lot of testing since there are so many functions in the mixer and so many different situations to test.

 

They'd still have to eliminate certain tablet models that simply can't work.

 

Then they'd have to handle all the potential customer questions caused by limitations in a particular tablet app---or any weird mixer behavior caused by a bug in one of the apps.

 

Never mind the calls for app updates as each tablet gets new OS updates: "But now it should work---your software guys should try writing the app again!"

 

There are limits to how far a company can go. It isn't like they're selling fifty thousand units a month and banking huge profits to support a big effort. (If this were the US military, then of course they'd spend millions on it.)

 

(Me? I've just been a software engineer since 1973. What do I know?)

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I'm not a software engineer but that really doesn't make any sense to me!

 

I use android for a number of years now. I have multiple devices. Every app I have installed work on every device just the same!

 

The android play store has a part were you can see all the apps you already installed with your google account. I use the same account for years so I have plenty apps on there. Every time I buy a new android device I just go there and install the apps I use the most on it. I always works the same! No problems!    

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Originally a Android phone and tablet user, I bought my first iPad (3rd gen w/ Retina) seems like 2 years ago.  Not once have I regretted that.  I actually like having both types around. There are other cases of apps available for IOS and not for Android.

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I use android for a number of years now. I have multiple devices. Every app I have installed work on every device just the same!

Most apps connect to web sites or other online servers. The one to control a mixer (M20d, Mackie or Behringer) probably needs to perform low-level network communication, not simply web accesses. This is where things can get different.

 

Not having worked in either IOS or Android apps, I don't know for sure, but the devil is in the details when it comes to software design.

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I have ipad and mostly use mac but I have a galaxy note 4 android phone.  I can tell you that for whatever reason any of the apps that I have that run on both devices work better on the ipad.  Less glitch, less lag, more options.  I  can't talk to the details as to why that is, but it is apparent.   Simpler games seem to work as good but even then there are times when they lock up or just somehow go into slow motion. 

 

Just stating that you have a number of android devices tells us nothing, if they are all Samsung, or all nexus they are going to work similarly.

The one sure constant is that ios is always going to be on a device that was made by apple (barring any hack jobs which don't count).

 

So if I'm line 6 here is how I would be approaching this.

 

1) I want consistency in performance, I don't want to be hearing how this didn't work blah blah blah.  There is no way to completely eliminate this problem, it's human nature to make human errors and then complain that it's someone else's fault.  But you can minimize it if you go with the device that is most likely to give the best performance.  As I stated above in almost all 3rd party apps / games that are available on both devices they just run smoother on the ios device.

 

2) This is an added feature, it could have easily been left out, and the board would still be worth the money.  They offered the ipad version for the reasons listed in number one.  If you have an ipad you can do this, if you don't,  you can buy one or not, it's up to you. 

 

I don't think Line 6 owes us this feature, they offered it for ios because that made sense to them and they felt they could do it.  Some people would like and take advantage of this "OPTION".  They could have taken another approach and offered their own controller that we have to purchase from them.  Personally I would buy the ipad even if it's all I used it for before I started running snakes to the stage.  I realize the snake is cheaper but it's a lot messier too.  And with the ipad I can walk around the room and mix from anywhere and everywhere.  You run a snake, you are glued to your m20d unless you can find an interim baby-sitter for it.

 

Just my thoughts to each his own, if you want to run a snake...do it..it's how we did it forever.  It's just that to me, beyond the money issue there are other advantages with the ipad.

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I'm just looking for a new PA System for our band. We will use it in our rehearsal room as well as a monitorig system on stage.

So I thought, the M20D would be a great alternative to conventional mixers. But when I read that Android Tablets are not supported (so far), one of the killer features (to remote control the mixer) isn't available to us because we do not own an iPad.

 

That's the reason why we won't buy a M20D so far. And I think that many other people won't buy it for the same reason. What a pitty because the M20D is a great piece of technique.

 

Maybe Line6 will change it's mind when they recognice that the cost-advantage of developing only for iPad turns in a turnover-disadvantage because Android users won't buy the M20D.

The price of the M20d has dropped $1000 since it 1st came out and they still complain about the price of iPad. They don't know what they are missing,

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I also use two tablets, a recent iPad + a 10" Samsung Galaxy Tab, and they both have strengths and weakenesses. I've actually found the Galaxy has better wi-fi reception than than the iPad. It will lock onto networks that the iPad struggles with. I can get a solid connection on that in one room in the house where the iPad can't even find a signal...

 

Interestingly, the latest Soundcraft Ui series digital mixers are totally cross-platform using a web-based interface. Work on PC, Mac, Android and IOS. No apps required.

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that's the way to go... future proof, cross platform, and easy...

i'm sure there are advantages to the way its done now... perhaps less latency etc....

but for your general setup/soundcheck etc...

the web method would probably be acceptable.

 

 totally cross-platform using a web-based interface. Work on PC, Mac, Android and IOS. No apps required.

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The immediate issue is that to have a web/browser based interface, the device needs to have a built in web server. More software running on the M20d potentially slowing it down.

 

I wonder why soundcraft have maxed out at 12 + 2stereo?

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true.. but we can do all that and more on a 50$ retail Roku box... or 30$ firehd from amazon... or 30$ chromecast from google... etc

 

tweak it ... and solder it to the board :D

just saying... yeah it's not an m20d option....

but they could work something up next gen.....

 

The immediate issue is that to have a web/browser based interface, the device needs to have a built in web server. More software running on the M20d potentially slowing it down.

I wonder why soundcraft have maxed out at 12 + 2stereo?

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The Ui series are a 'budget' option, basically. Much cheaper than the M20D and quite a lot less capable. The cheapest model starts at $399... just shows how the price of digital mixers is falling, and falling fast.

 

I do think a 'universal' app-free control interface is a big plus, though.

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I tend to agree that a browser based interface is the way to go long term... but as said, that's V2 of the hardware... if it ever sees the light of day!

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Quite simple actually, Apple is the only person making Apple hardware. As for Android, there are a plethora of different operating systems under the guise of 'Android',and just as many DIFFERENT companies making the hardware. Zero consistency between Android by HTC, Android by LG, Android by Samsung, etc.

 

As for the comparison to Windows, while there are many vendors making Windows hardware, again, ONLY Microsoft makes Windows software.

 

Take a look at all the stupid variations on Android... Too many to count. Lollipop, Ice Cream Sandwich, Jelly Bean...

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