Cab Mics Modeling

[Moderato]

I'm relatively new to the Amplifi so sorry if this topic has been covered already but I just noticed the Cab Mics settings in the remote app last night and when I changed them the sound difference was drastic.  Anyone else notice that?  It seems to me that setting is hugely important in shaping the sound.  Any tips for the various settings and ones to choose from and also can you turn that off and have no modeling for a Cab Mic?  Thanks. 

[Moderato]

I'm surprised no one responded, maybe it's an obvious question but I'm not aware.  Why do you have to select a cabinet mic?  There's no way to turn that off?  Switching between the different mic models is a huge difference in sound maybe even more drastic than switching pickups.  Also there's a setting right above it called Early Reflections.  What is everyone doing about both of these settings?  

[TheShogun]

I wasn't sure about this either so I used the Google Tubes. The first YouTube link turned out to be pretty good and gives an excellent basic explanation of the how and why parts. Bellow is the search results from "How to mic a guitar amp" and a direct link to the YouTube video. 

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how%20to%20mic%20a%20guitar%20amp

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7ArZ5ElkxE

 

Hope this helps.

[Moderato]

I wasn't sure about this either so I used the Google Tubes. The first YouTube link turned out to be pretty good and gives an excellent basic explanation of the how and why parts. Bellow is the search results from "How to mic a guitar amp" and a direct link to the YouTube video. 

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how%20to%20mic%20a%20guitar%20amp

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7ArZ5ElkxE

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for the reply.  I ended up doing the same thing as you researching how the placement & different mics that are modeled behave in real world applications in the hope that would help me to understand what to expect and how to use the modeled versions.  I'm still a bit shocked that there isn't more discussion regarding this.  First of all I think it would be good to be able to disable those settings completely and second we're not talking about a subtle difference, those settings have a huge impact on the sound.  I don't know, maybe a lot of users aren't even aware it's there or just leave it at default and try to dial in the sound from there?  I've been very busy lately but in a couple weeks I'll have more time to experiment with it and see if I can try to use those settings to my advantage. 

[Triryche]

I know you can select to have no amp and cab, but nut sure if you can do no cab while having an app, I can check later tonite.

But if you have a cab it would imply there is a mic to capture the sound, so in theory you can not model a cab without a mic.

[Moderato]

I know you can select to have no amp and cab, but nut sure if you can do no cab while having an app, I can check later tonite.

But if you have a cab it would imply there is a mic to capture the sound, so in theory you can not model a cab without a mic.

 

I guess I misunderstood then, I thought the modeling was as if you were standing in the room right in front of the amp without a mic.  I thought it was as if you were playing through a Fender Twin/Marshall/Mesa/Vox/Whatever and standing right there in front of it.  That's what I thought the Amplifi was trying to simulate? 

[Triryche]

Yes, that is correct. But how do you model different peoples' ears?

Not to get too scientific, but sound does not exist until it is perceived by a being. :ph34r:

Of course there are physical attributes to be measured, wavelengths, propagation thru the air, amplitude of the wavelengths...

But until the air pressures hit your eardrum and it is converted to electrical impulses and your brain forms a perception of sound, there is none.

 

So when modeling cabs, there needs to be some way to capture the simulation of these impulses in the air, which is a mic.

 

All that being said, best to just try them out and use what sounds best to you!! :)

[Moderato]

Yes, that is correct. But how do you model different peoples' ears?

Not to get too scientific, but sound does not exist until it is perceived by a being. :ph34r:

Of course there are physical attributes to be measured, wavelengths, propagation thru the air, amplitude of the wavelengths...

But until the air pressures hit your eardrum and it is converted to electrical impulses and your brain forms a perception of sound, there is none.

 

So when modeling cabs, there needs to be some way to capture the simulation of these impulses in the air, which is a mic.

 

All that being said, best to just try them out and use what sounds best to you!! :)

 

Ah yes definitely, I didn't consider that, makes complete sense, thanks! 

[BillBee]

If the amplifi is in the woods and no one is there................

 

One day this grasshopper will snatch that pick from Sensi Triryche's hand! ^_^

 

-B

[Triryche]

If a man speaks in the forest and no women hears him, is he still wrong?

[BillBee]

If a man speaks in the forest and no women hears him, is he still wrong?

 

I like the blue one  :ph34r:

 

.

..

...

 

She's here isn't she?

[ColonelForbin]

I would guess this is not an option with Amplifi; though I won't know because there is no proper manual...(yet)

 

This *is* the exact way the HD500(x) works however. You can setup the output modes, to either emulate the amp model + cab model with or without the mic and room.

 

So, in theory, since the Amplifi is the "Guitar Amp Reinvented", it should offer the same output modes which are standard in the POD series, such as the HD500, HD500x, X3Live, etc. I doubt the Amplifi offers these output mode options though. 

 

I think with Amplifi, you are basically stuck in what the other Line6  amp modeling devices call "Studio/Direct".

Which is weird, because the Amplifi has no proper outputs, and you really wouldn't want to listen to 'studio/direct' through a regular guitar amp speaker, it would make more sense to be in combo/poweramp, but since it does give you mic options, your guess is as good as mine!

 

HD500 Advanced Manual

 

Take a look at the HD500 manual, and look at the 'output mode' settings.

 

Combo/Poweramp = amp model + cab model

Studio / Direct = amp model + cab model + mic model (+room)

 

If you can find anything that resembles those settings in the Amplifi, then you are on the right track.

 

:)

 

HD500 System Setup

2•8

Page 4, Setup: Output Options

 

The Mode setting on this page allows you to configure the type of signal fed to your POD 

HD500 analog outputs to optimize for direct recording versus connecting to an external 

amplifier. 

 

Note that this Mode setting affects the signal fed to several POD HD500 outputs: Balanced, 

Unbalanced & Phones outputs as well as USB Record Send & L6 LINK audio outputs.

Knob 1 selects the Output Mode. This is a global setting. 

 

• Studio/Direct: Typically the best option when connecting “Direct†to a mixing 

console or recording device. This signal includes “Studio†Cab Models, Mic Model 

and an “AIR†convolution to best emulate a mic’ed amp within a room. 

 

• Combo and Stack settings: Optimizes your tone for connecting to an external 

amplifier. The signal includes “Live†Cab Models,with no Mic Model or “AIR†

convolution, with a special EQ curve added for each. 

 

• Combo Front & Stack Front: For connecting into the front input of a typical 

combo amp or amp head + external cab, respectively. When choosing either of 

these Modes, you’ll see the following additional options for further tone shaping:

 

Lows (Knob 2): Attenuates the low frequencies.

 

• Focus (Knob 3): Increases the overall midrange.

• Highs (Knob 4): Attenuates the high frequencies.System Setup 2•9

• Combo Power Amp & Stack Power Amp: For connecting to the power amp of a 

combo or head amp.

 

TIP: When using the Combo or Stack options and connecting into a tube amplifier, we also 

recommend that you choose a Preamp Model from the Amp Model menu (rather than one 

of the “Full†Amp Models). HD Preamp Models include no power amp emulation, making 

them typically better suited for this connection. That said, there is no wrong choice! PODs 

have always been about flexibility... Check out all the possibilities and decide which Models 

work best for your tone!

[ColonelForbin]

I thought the modeling was as if you were standing in the room right in front of the amp without a mic.  I thought it was as if you were playing through a Fender Twin/Marshall/Mesa/Vox/Whatever and standing right there in front of it.  That's what I thought the Amplifi was trying to simulate? 

 

That is what the HD500 simulates in Combo/Poweramp mode.

 

For example, if you Line6Link an HD500x to a DT50 amp, the HD500x will automatically go to the output mode which matches the amp - if it's a combo amp, it goes into combo/poweramp; if it's the head+cab, it goes to stack/poweramp.

 

Which is, as you described, the modeled sound of the Fender Twin (preamp), in front of you. In the case of using the HD500 with a DT amp, the Bogner portion of the DT amp actually "becomes" the poweramp portion of that amp. But that is specific to the DT series.

 

If, for example, you took the HD500 output, in combo/poweramp mode, and plugged the main 1/4" output from the HD500 into the FX RETURN of the generic guitar amp, you would be listening to the HD500 model the preamp and poweramp characteristics of the amp model you select.

 

The Amplfi is not in the same league as that HD and DT gear though, so it's not quite fair for me to compare them like that.

Yes, the Amplifi is newer. No, it's not newer amp or fx models - it's from the old X3 era. Re-packaged for a bluetooth iPad app based experience. Which is fine, totally cool! They make a good point, the HD500 editing screen (on the actual pedalboard) is pretty minimal. Using an iPad to edit that on the fly would be stellar.

 

And it's quite possible, that since the Amplifi is so much driven by the programming of the "App", it's not inconceivable to think they might be able to address that output mode choice in a future software/firmware/app update.

 

Perhaps check out IdeaScale? Someone may already have that idea which you could add your vote too, if not, you can create that suggestion. I am guessing you are not alone in wanting that  type of control

[Moderato]

^^^ Interesting stuff, thanks Colonel, I'll keep all that in mind. 

[ColonelForbin]

I started searching for more specific info, no luck yet! I checked IdeaScale, and I don't see a specific thread requesting the option to disable the mic sims on the Amplifi. I would hope it's something which can be updated in future firmware, no clue though. A big part of it would be all the existing patches would likely have issues if they added something like that, I am not certain which aspects are "hard coded" and which are "flexible".