JaseFIJo Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Anyone out there come across this? During setup using auto trim the input flashes "too hot". Now, I think I understand why this is but really not sure why it would happen as the I/P should accept this type of connection. I have the output (Redbox DI assume it's active) from a Hughes and Kettner tubemeister 18 amp connected direct to input (10) and ended up setting the trim manually (to +8db) I should have probably gone lower than this as the recorded signal once imported back into the Reason was well into the clipping region. I guess my questions are: 1. Does input "too hot" mean that the auto trim wants to apply a negative dB? 2. What does the auto system do in this case? leave the value at some pre determine level 3. is 0 dB trim valid? Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWatts69 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Anyone out there come across this? During setup using auto trim the input flashes "too hot". Now, I think I understand why this is but really not sure why it would happen as the I/P should accept this type of connection. I have the output (Redbox DI assume it's active) from a Hughes and Kettner tubemeister 18 amp connected direct to input (10) and ended up setting the trim manually (to +8db) I should have probably gone lower than this as the recorded signal once imported back into the Reason was well into the clipping region. Trim is trying to get your input signal to a nominal 0db. Some signals are colder than others and need to be trimmed upwards, increasing their pre-amp gain, whilst others will be hotter, so trim applies a negative amount of trim. I've received "Input Level Too Hot" warnings a couple of times. It most commonly occurs with active DI connections direct from amplifiers/heads though I did once get it when top micing a snare with a thrash metal band using an SM57! If it's an active DI output from amp, check the settings on the amp to see if the DI output level can be lowered to bring it in to range. If not, the signal is possibly already too hot even for that amp and the input itself needs decreasing. On the occasion I saw this, I asked the guitarist concerned and he said he could reduce the DI signal level. As it happens, when he looked, he'd got his DI output set to post gain (it was a Kemper) and apologised profusely! I solved mine with the snare by switching to bottom micing the snare, but could have also increased the distance between the mic and snare. I guess my questions are: 1. Does input "too hot" mean that the auto trim wants to apply a negative dB? No, it means the input level is already higher than the range the M20d can cope with. 2. What does the auto system do in this case? leave the value at some pre determine level Auto-trim applies an adjustment from it's current pre-amp gain setting. So, if you start "hot", auto-trim will decrease pre-amp gain/trim to bring it down. If the input signal is low, it will increase pre-amp gain/trim to bring the level up. It wants to send equal levels through each channel where the level is just below clipping 3. is 0 dB trim valid? Jason Yes. It just means that the pre-amplifier stage is not boosting the input signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboomer Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The input too hot warning means that the signal is outside the range that auto-trim can manage. Flip the pad on the Redbox to -26dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseFIJo Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 OK but the back of the amp doesn't look like it has this option So if I'm doing a manual adjust let me set the trim to less than 0 dB stops at this point Thanks Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseFIJo Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Thanks for this DI too hot all night, although Ken said his guitar was quieter than most ;-) including mine . Anyway looking at the manual the DI it is straight after the pre amp so pretty loud (or signal high) i.e. line ish, so can I put an attenuator in (if there is such a thing). So next gig can I DI the H&H amp without having issues? Thanks Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWatts69 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Just read your manual for your H&K Redbox DI out. It states "Use a microphone cord to patch this signal to a mixing console. Make sure the mixing console’s XLR input is set to line level. If the mixing console lacks XLR inputs or if these cannot be set to line level, you will need an XLR-to-6.3 mm-(1/4")-jack adapter readily available in music stores. The channels’ MASTER settings directly affect the signal level, but the selected POWER SOAK mode does not." So, even though it is feeding a DI output, that DI output is at LINE LEVEL. When you plug into the M20d with an XLRM it sets the input up as MIC level input. Line level is a lot hotter and typically doesn't need to pass through a mic pre-amp. Change the cable to an XLRF to 1/4" TRS balanced jack and input on any of channels 13-16 for a line level input. You can also plug in to 1-12 but make sure you select a LINE level preset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWatts69 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The input too hot warning means that the signal is outside the range that auto-trim can manage. Flip the pad on the Redbox to -26dB. Hi don... the redbox DI is built in to the tubemeister amp and has no pad option. Pad is only an option on the standalone redbox from what I can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseFIJo Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Just read your manual for your H&K Redbox DI out. It states "Use a microphone cord to patch this signal to a mixing console. Make sure the mixing console’s XLR input is set to line level. If the mixing console lacks XLR inputs or if these cannot be set to line level, you will need an XLR-to-6.3 mm-(1/4")-jack adapter readily available in music stores. The channels’ MASTER settings directly affect the signal level, but the selected POWER SOAK mode does not." So, even though it is feeding a DI output, that DI output is at LINE LEVEL. When you plug into the M20d with an XLRM it sets the input up as MIC level input. Line level is a lot hotter and typically doesn't need to pass through a mic pre-amp. Change the cable to an XLRF to 1/4" TRS balanced jack and input on any of channels 13-16 for a line level input. You can also plug in to 1-12 but make sure you select a LINE level preset. Makes perfect sense now and is the answer. I thought that the input on the M20d would have detected the mic/inst/line level but it doesn't, it's just guessing based on the type of connection cable plugged in, except ch (13-16) which are line. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limedrop Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Hey Jason, I'm using a H&K Redbox into the Stagescape too. As a follow up to this...what preset did you end up using? Did you need to do any tweaking? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseFIJo Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Once you come in line and use (Guitar) you only have a couple(or 3) presets so ended up using guitar modeler. Under general there a few more but there not really much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapca Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Hi Dudes, I have Connect my soundcard ( RME FF800 ) with 1/4" jack cables to the M20D. Output 1 and 2 from the FF to 13 and 14 in the mixer. Output 3 and 4 from the FF to 15 and 16 in the mixer. Use as preset on the mixer stereo line in !!!! During setup using auto trim the input still flashes "too hot" ???? Kind regards Emiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWatts69 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 First thing I'd be checking is that the outputs are not set to HiGain. Set them to the lowest output possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapca Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 First thing I'd be checking is that the outputs are not set to HiGain. Set them to the lowest output possible. THX, that did the job. Ouput FF800 was set to +4db. I reduced it to -10db Emiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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