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Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by GimpyChimp on 2010-12-02 06:49:30.2730

I have had my 2nd M13 for around 11-12 months now since I returned the first faulty one I was delivered, which suffered a weird hardware/software related problem (also mentioned in this forum). I am very pleased with the FX in it.

I run my M13, with the latest 2.01 firmware, in front of the normal/topboost input of my Vox AC30 with a USA Fender Telecaster.

Since the initial weeks of usage, I have always noticed a problem with the volume as the M13 is activated. Its volume drops slightly when fx are on. It is noticeable when activating the device to on from True Bypass mode or in constant DSP mode when bypassing it through cables. Also, in front of the amps input and in the amps fxloop.

At first I didnt think much of it, as I discarded it as a cable/guitar/amp related issue. I have now tried every possible solution and the only thing that helps keep my guitar signal/volume intact through the M13 fx is to add a separate boosterpedal into the fxloop (last in chain) and compensate the signal. However, this adds additional noise as very few booster pedals are discrete and clean. I cannot conclude that this volumedrop would be considered "tone-suck", as I think that would all be subjective from the point the fx are activated.

I have checked all the M13 settings, cables, that the built in gate is not on, different guitars and more. I feel that that it would be soo easy for Line6 to add a master volume signal out feature in the settings page (through firmware upgrade), this way it could be solved ( I dont understand why this wasnt in the M13 from the start).

I have also read everything I could find on this issue here at the line6 forum, also at other forums and extensive google-searches. There was some similar posts, and one M9 hardware issue that was similar, but was acknowledged by line6 and fixed through recall/repairs.

Anyone can help me out on this?



Re: Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by phil_m on 2010-12-02 08:39:04.9010

This is the first time I recall ever reading about this sort of issue with the M13.  So you're saying the volume drop only happens when you activate the effects?  Is this with all effects or just certain ones?  This is definitely not the expected behavior.  There are a few effects that are known to boost volume slightly in certain configurations, but I don't know of any that cause a drop.  There was a somewhat similar issue with the M9, but not with the M13 that I know of.

As far as why there's no master volume, I guess the answer would be that the M13 is really meant to be a unity gain device. It's meant to be used with guitar amps, and you generally want the level of a signal going in and out of an effects unit to be the same when used with an amp.

Re: Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by GimpyChimp on 2010-12-02 09:27:47.0460

Hi Phil. Yes, it happens only when activating an effect on the M13, even if its only a device that does not change values unless by an external expression pedal like for instance volumepedal (at max) or pitchshifting or whatever similar. Naturally all kinds of boosts and distortions-change or increases the volume, but since I use mainly use reverbs and delays, it is a problem for me. I understand the reason for having unity gain, but since that continuity of volume does not work on my M13, it is useless to me and I would rather have the option of compensating the volume before sending it onwards. I think I might have maybe 2 weeks left on my warranty, is there any other solution, can it be tweaked in hardware internally somehow?

I dont have access to other amps or M13 devices so I can compare if this is a unique problem with my unit.



RE: Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by Line6Hugo on 2010-12-06 15:17:43.3260

What you describe is something that can occur when using the M13 in True Bypass mode when the effects are off as this completely bypasses the DSP and gives you a hardware connection from the input to the output via relays. Thus, when the effects are engaged, you go into DSP bypass routing your signal through the processor which can effect the volume of the signal.

Setting the M13 to DSP bypass is an option available if this volume drop is too drastic.



Re: RE: Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by GimpyChimp on 2010-12-06 16:06:06.7860

Hey Hugo. So, you are telling me this volumedrop is normal and that I have to put it in DSP bypass to get rid of volume differences? Then what would be the point of having true bypass in the 1st place?

Phil has just pointed out that the M13 has no master volume in settings,  because you are aiming at unity gain. Does that not counter what you are now saying. Why aim for unity gain if there is no transparancy between signal in/out.

What I am saying is that my M13, as fx are activated, is lowering the volume of everything going through the fx, even non-fx like flat eq, volume etc. I dont see why it would have to be lower in output, in comparison to the original signal (I would consider that "tone loss").

I dont see why I have to use a separate boosterpedal in the m13 fx-chain just to compensate for the lower signal when turning it on/off. DSP bypass always on with a lower signal output seems odd as it would void using true bypass for clean signalflow. I could use an entire fx-slot just to use a booster in the m13 itself, but I would lose 1/4 devices and I would always have to activate 2 at a time.


RE: Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by Line6Hugo on 2010-12-07 09:56:43.7750

In some setups this drop is not as dramatic, but this behavior is inherent with the device when toggling between True Bypass and DSP Bypass. I'm sorry if this is not the behavior you desired, but I have logged a quality concern on this behavior for the device.



Re: RE: Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by GimpyChimp on 2010-12-07 10:30:59.2600

Thanks for acknowledging and helping me clarify the issue with the m13. I will use the booster in the fx-loop to even the volume drop until I find another solution. Please consider adding a final mastervolume feature for adjustment/compensation of volume (it could be hidden if it would compromise other users experience) to the next firmware relase, that would take care of the issue.

Re: Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by zippy5000 on 2011-11-22 16:14:24.8790

I am having the EXACT same problem.
As soon as I engage ANY effect, I get about a 30% volume drop.

I see this is an old discussion, has anyone resolved this yet?

Re: Volume drop issue on M13 (yet another?)
by bubo69 on 2012-04-12 02:09:32.3720

I found the problem as described by GimpyChimp. I'm a brand new owner of M13 runnig 2.04FW. I tried to find master volume - no success. Will be (or was) this issue resolved?  Thnx

The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.