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Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by Deep-Core on 2011-12-15 13:55:10.1030

Hi Folks,

I read through a few post but couldn't find a discussion about this specific topic.

(If I missed it please post a link)

Being a metalhead after unboxing my HD500 I went straight to the JCM800 and with my JT-Variax and decend headphones I liked the sound which I think was close to the one for example in the MonkeyLord tone video.

After updating the flash to the last firmware all my distorted sounds (Dual Rect, Fireball) but especially the JCM are terribly oversteering. Way too much distortion no highs und barely an attack doing power chords (JTV on mag pickups, not modelling!)

It gets better by rolling down the guitar volume very far but that can't be the solution.

I'm really dissapointed and unconfident with the rig at the moment.

Can anybody confirm that the new flashware has decreased your sounds, too?

Any has anybody a working solution for this mess?


Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by silverhead on 2011-12-15 14:20:54.2660

Check your inputs. If Input 2 is set to Same you may be overloading the amp input with a signal that is too strong. Try setting Input 2 to something different from Input 1 (e.g. Aux).

Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by coderken on 2011-12-15 14:58:15.1350

Try backing off on the amp model's master volume (not the master on the top of the unit but the one in the amp parameters edit page).

FWIW, I had the opposite experience. My tone improved many times over with the update to the 1.4 firmware.

Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by Deep-Core on 2011-12-15 15:20:34.8440

Hi guys

tanks for the quick tipps!

I'll try those tomorrow and post a feedback, here its midnight now

Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by Deep-Core on 2011-12-18 04:15:37.2160

Hi Guys,

I tried both approaches.

Setting the secondary input to other than guitar or variax really did clean up the output. It doesn't give all the change I wished for but it is a noticiable improvement.

Rolling back the master volume in the amp parameter page helps and brings the headphone sound to an accepatable quality (The Sennheiser are reference headphones, which I want to mention to line out that it should not be an issue of the headphones themselves).

What I did not achieve yet is creating patches that sound good going through the power amp section of my Spider Valve, which sounds good with a higher amp volume setting in parameters, and at the same time sound well over the headphones.

Any idea on another tweak I could try?

Thanks for the help so far!!

Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by Line6Hugo on 2011-12-22 10:03:15.9670

The best I can recommend is to continue spending time fine tuning the parameters of your presets on the HD500.  As everyone's ears and preferences are different, the best thing for you is to spend more time with it.  Ensure your output mode is set to COMBO or STACK PWRAMP.  Also, consider using just the preamp models of the amp models to see if they work for you.



Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by spaceatl on 2011-12-22 10:26:11.7490

+1 Hugo

Something else to consider when spinning up patches for a Spider Valve is that you might be better served by using PRE models for the Class AB type models you choose to use (JCM800, Recto etc...) and use FULL models only for the Class A types (AC15, Dr Z etc...)....The reasoning behind that is that the Spider Valve is a Class AB and all Class AB power amps will suffer from some crossover distortion...This crosover distotion exists in the FULL models that are AB types...Not sure which SV you have, but COMBO or STACK are probably better modes to try...You might also find some addtional benefit in setting the cab model to NO CAB...Not sure you are going to be able to get good can tone and amp tone at the same time...If you have a MK2, then you could use the direct off the amp...Likely that would give a more proper direct tone in tandem with a patch that is optimized for the amplifier...I would recomend using separate patches for direct only off the HD500...

Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by Deep-Core on 2011-12-25 04:52:15.7880

Hi guys,

again more usefull hints, thanks!

Especially considering that SV appears to be a Class AB amp which corresponds better to the preamp modells works quite nice.

Looks like I expected it the be much more plug and play as it is but being able to tweak nearly every setting probably is a necessity to give every dude the chance to set up "his" sound!

Looks like I'm getting there.

Thanks for the support!

Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by meambobbo on 2011-12-26 20:00:49.8450

The 1.4 update added variable input impedance.  Before this update, it was hard-wired to 1M.  The default when you updated should have been "auto", which adjusts the impedance of the Pod to the specs of the first active block in your chain.

For your patch with just the JCM-800 model, the "auto" impedance would be 1M.  It really shouldn't be a contributing factor here.  But just to be certain, I would compare the "auto" setting to the 1M or 3.5M setting and see if it makes a difference.

If you have any effects before the amp; however, it is something to keep in mind.  Most distortion effects will change the impedance lower, which should deliver a darker tone than if you use 1M.

Also, the v1.31 firmware and beyond added the "deep-editing parameters" on the amp models.  You would think that the default values for the amp models would be the same as before the update, but I know at least one case where this is false: the Master Volume level on the Line 6 Elektrik amp model (labeled as the "Uber" model before v1.2).  So I would try lowering the sag to increase your attack, and possibly increasing the Master Volume to get more poweramp distortion which should add some bite to the distortion (I like it around 60-75%).  Also, I like to turn the Bias and Bias X down on the JCM-800 model.  Turning down Bias brightens up the amp model and adds more crunch to the power amp distortion.  Turning Bias X down basically ensures you always keep the amp biased as you set via Bias, whether you are playing loud, soft, lead, rhythm, etc.

I find the JCM-800 model particularly muddy/murky on its own.  I pretty much always put either a distortion effect or EQ effect in front to brighten up the tone before it hits the amp, and that's with high impedance settings on the Pod and bright pickups in my guitars.

If you want to try out some of my patches, you might get at least some ideas.  They can be found here:">">  "Rhodes" uses mostly pre-amp distortion, with some EQ'ing before the amp with a distortion effect and an EQ.  "EVH_I" uses mostly power amp distortion, also using a distortion effect before the amp to brighten the tone.  "Slash_GNR" uses a mix of pre-amp and power-amp distortion, with only a mild mid-boost before the amp.  "Satriani" gets its distortion from a Classic Distortion effect.  I have the JCM-800's drive set low enough so that it's not really adding distortion but high enough to color the tone to get the Marshall influence.  "Satriani_Fuzz" is similar but uses an Overdrive distortion to get a fuzzy, heavily overdriven tone.  "Megadeth" is similar to Rhodes, but a bit more extreme and modern sounding.

Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by titchy on 2011-12-27 01:53:19.8670

I started a thread called rollback

I took mine back to version 1.00 with my Hd Bean and it sounded good.

Updated to 1.4 and the fizz was there.

At the moment i've gone back to my G3

Re: Flashware update from boxed 1.06? to 1.40 harming sound
by meambobbo on 2011-12-28 18:46:07.6330

i'd like to try that out.  are you using direct or "live" patches? which amp/cab/mic are you using?

I think most of the "fizz" people refer to deals with going direct, using the cab and mic simulation.  My theory is that the IR's used for this are not "high resolution".  For instance, even the Axe-FX uses only 1,024 samples max for its IR's.  Axe-FX II uses 2,048.  The RedWirez Axe-FX wav files are only 4 KB in size compared to 30-40 KB for the 96kHZ/24 bit versions used in a DAW.

The lower resolution probably means certain frequencies sound more washed out or noisy - that's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.

I don't know how that would relate to the firmware version, unless they had to devote more DSP to processing the added features and thus less for the IR's, which means they had to use IR's with less samples.

But that's just for direct...if the differences are for patches using "no cab", that wouldnt' apply.

Also, are you using the same patches or are you rebuilding the patches as you change firmware?  That could definitely be an issue.

The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.