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M13 & Amp FX loop volume and tone problems
by basden53 on 2012-10-26 07:15:03.2200

I believe this subject has been covered in this forum but I am still having trouble solving my particular problem.  I have a Ceriatone jtm45 with a line level, non-buffered fx loop.  My issue is this...when I connect my M13 to the fx loop...I encounter a volume drop and an increase in distortion of my signal....BEFORE I ENGAGE ANY OF THE EFFECTS ON THE M13.  That is to say...the process of just connecting the M13 to the loop is causing my problem.  The troubleshooting I have conducted thus far is; try the 4CM (same results), 2CM (same results) and I have put M13 in front of the amp...and there is no change to my volume or tone...however...the time based effects are miserable as would be expected.  I also put a patch in the amps fx loop (engaging the loop but bypassed) and there was no change in the volume or tone when I did that!?  I have researched this issue extensively on the web and in this forum...but almost none of the info I have been able to get deals with the volume and tone change problem of just plugging the M13 in to an amps fx loop?  I have ordered a Morley Effects Loop Corrector that is supposed to align the impedance differences between the amp and the M13...but I am a bit dubious that is will solve my issue.  I believe I have enough understanding of the "line level vs instrument level" issue to know that it can cause a problem...but thus far...I can't seem to find any info that addresses my specific problem when just connecting the M13 to the loop.  I have read that the TC Nova System works well with a passive loop...but I don't want to go down that $350 road.  Can anybody offer some help?  Thanks in advance.

Re: M13 & Amp FX loop volume and tone problems
by phil_m on 2012-10-26 07:45:23.0530

I imagine it simply comes down to a level/impedance mismatch between your amp's effects loop and the M13's ins and outs. The M13 is an instrument level effect and most effects loops are at line level. Sometimes this doesn't cause any issues, but sometimes it does. Your experience seems to be pretty common with using instrument level effects with Marshall amps. The fact that you get the tone suck without the effects being engaged isn't unexpected, especially when in DSP bypass mode. In DSP bpyass mode, your signal is still going through the M13's A/D and D/A converters.

The Morley effects loop corrector is what I would recommend, so I think you're headed down the right path.

Re: M13 & Amp FX loop volume and tone problems
by basden53 on 2012-10-26 10:54:16.5910

Phil...thanks for the response.  Would a kleinulator, dumbleator, verator etc or some other buffered device resolve the issue?

Re: M13 & Amp FX loop volume and tone problems
by phil_m on 2012-10-26 11:28:13.4870

I don't think it's a matter of buffering, really. All a buffer is designed to do is to make the signal at the end of cable match what's coming in at the beginning. They're designed to compensate for signal losses due to cables themselves. I don't think what you're hearing here has anything to do with that. I think it's because of the level and impedance difference. The effects loop corrector should work for what you're wanting to do.

Re: M13 & Amp FX loop volume and tone problems
by JTSC777 on 2012-11-21 09:00:27.4340

I run my M13 into the front only of my 1982 JCM800 model 4010. Single ended non- effect loop amp and it kills!. You have to tweak the delays and reverbs and really watch the levels so things don't get out of control. I also run it straight into the front of my Crate V-1512 and an Egnater Tweaker head and cab with great results. I use a waterfall of delays and reverbs with no problems but I had to tweak all the settings on each pedal I chose to use in the M13. Also each delay type(tube-tape etc...) sounds and behaves very differently. I played a huge room last week with my Marshall and M13 unmiked and destroyed the other guitar players GSP 2101 and 5150(yuck) rigs.In between sets all the other musicians in the audience came up to stare at and ask questions about the M13 and the Marshall(with 1x12 The guy with the 5150 had a huge pedalboard and sounded harsh and unpleasant. A good Marshall will fill a whole room if run correctly. That is what they were made for.LOVE MY M13!!!. Good Luck!

Re: M13 & Amp FX loop volume and tone problems
by jpapg on 2013-02-04 12:25:36.7320

I would be greatful if U could post an update on whether the Morley thing did resolve the problem,

cause it would help potential users of the unit to decide whether to buy it or not !!


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