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Main :: DT50/DT25

Feeling a little rubed
by ivylotus on 2013-01-07 20:52:59.3400

To be clear, Line 6 didn't lie about anything, but...

I was looking for a versatile amp to replace all my SansAmp pedals. Why was I with SansAmps so long? Well, they do sound good. But the pedal format was becoming a problem, and I wanted it all in an amp form factor with more variety of sounds than the Trademark 60 offered. But I don't do menus and LCDs (I'm a systems architect for a living, and don't need computer interfaces in my guitar life). My sales guy at an online retailer tells me to look at the DT25/HD500. I tell him floor units are a nonstarter for me (I don't use the foot controls, and bending down to make changes is a drag - that's part of why I was leaving the SansAmps, and besides, it's lots of menus and LCDs).

He tells me I should give the DT25 a try anyway. Great amp, even without the HD500, he says. I look at the Line 6 website. Four vocings? Not enough for me for the price, especially since I would never use the Modern High Gain voicing. Then I read about the V2 firmware, and that changes my thinking. Eight amps (including the Dr. Z, /13, Soldano, and Hiwatt), with just knobs and switches like an amp. All I need to do is update the firmware and then "You can also control your amp’s enhanced MIDI functionality via a Mac® or PC computer with a USB-to-MIDI interface and compatible software capable of sending MIDI CC information." Plus all the Bogner configurability - again through switches. Sounds great.

Sounds easy. It isn't. Basically (I'm sure everyone here knows this), you either have to be a full on MIDI guru, or you have to buy their hadware. Well, only if you have an iPhone or iPad. Otherwise, tough luck. Moreovoer, they don't list anywhere on their website (nor do they inform their large internet retailers) which USB to MIDI interfaces do and don't work with the unit. My sales guy selected one for me that Line 6 tech *knows* won't work. How do I know? I called, waited on hold, and found out the hard way. Also, the Line 6 tech support guy I talked to knows people frequently have problems with this, and expressed frustration with marketing for trying too hard to make it seem simple, not wanting to specify a few known good interfaces, and leaving customers frustrated.

So I run out locally tonight, buy another interface that the Line 6 support tech (a really nice guy) specified, get my V2 firmware...and that does me no good at all.

Would it have killed them to make some software to allow simple amp model swap-ins? Or could they provide links to recommended third party software for Mac and PC, along with pricing, that will accomplish this? Or were they just trying to suck us into buying more hardware wth the V2 firmware?

It's probably getting returned, unless I get a cheap Mac software solution that is easy to use from my sales guy.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by talwilkins on 2013-01-08 06:24:05.8210

You are so right about this. It's really stupid of Line6 not to make some decent edit software.

Fortunately a Linr6 user has made the software himself! It's a fine peice of work and I urge you to check it out.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by ivylotus on 2013-01-08 07:34:59.6240

Unfortunately, it's Windows only. So as cool as it is, for Mac users, it only serves to shame Line6.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by talwilkins on 2013-01-08 12:11:52.2220

Try running it in a virtual Windows

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by ivylotus on 2013-01-08 14:13:17.8110

I'm gonna do that tonight. Nice of a volunteer to do Line 6's work for them. I may yet love this amp, but I'm a long way from half-liking this company.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by wattage on 2013-01-17 19:12:12.1130

So thankful I found this post. I am about to teach a DT25 head to fly!!!!

I am on my 2nd worthless usb to midi controller. I should've read the forum content about the midi update and control issues instead of just reading the factory advert/update info. I am flipping pissed about the usb/midi issue, this is such a simple thing for them to put in the info, even if just to refer to the forum for further details before purchasing a controller. I am sure they want everyone to think it is simple as pie but it's not. Their lack of detail is arrogant and inconsiderate but that is typical of most tech style companies, most prop heads don't care, it is a game and fun for them to fark with these issues.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by PDKTDK on 2013-01-18 06:53:35.5690

You're right about one thing for sure....

If you had read the forum first you would've gotten the reccommended midi controller.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by talwilkins on 2013-01-18 07:34:49.3990

I can confirm that the ESI-Audio Midimate II works fine with the DT-25.

Did my firmware update with it

It's a good cable with nice features:


  • USB MIDI interface with 2 MIDI connectors, each can work as independent input or output 
  • high-speed connection to USB 2.0 or 1.1 equipped PC or Macintosh system 
  • bus powered, requires no external power supply 
  • no driver needed for Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Mac OS X

It actuallt senses input and output automatically!

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by PDKTDK on 2013-01-18 09:38:03.5540

I've been thinking about this and Line6 didn't rube anyone.

Maybe the sales person at the store rubed someone.

I understand that we like convenience.  I studied technology because I love the convenience it affords.

The situation here is somone wants all the benefits of the technology without a learning curve.  The thing is every new or progressed technology has some learning curve. Even a cel phone or smart phone takes some adaptation.  I believe the curve in this case is pretty slim versus the amount of benefits.

This is a support forum and not a complaint board.  This thread is completely non-constructive aside from all the supportive responses.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by spaceatl on 2013-01-18 09:59:57.1700

This is nothing more than a classic Gen Y rationalization.

[sarcasm warning]

Someone else must be at fault for this having happened. Obviously, the blame in this situation could not possibly lay on the person who made the decision to buy without doing thier own DD...It's always Line 6's fault.

[begin midi rant]

Many musicains have been using midi since the 1980s....I am so sick of the "it takes a midi guru" crapola...If you don't want to learn it, don't use it. Expecting any company to write a manual that will make midi easy is beyond reasonable...You kids have the internet for christ sake....I learned how to program my ADA midi switching rig in 1988...without the internet...It was painful too...But I wanted that capability in my rig...There wasn't a forum for me to whine on about how ADA should have created a app to make controlling my SPXs easier...jeez...this is a stupid thread and I have nothing against someone venting about how they made a mistake...but refusing to learn how to use midi while insisting on using midi's the it...

[midi rant ends here...for now...sorry fellas...]

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by evilmikehoo on 2013-01-18 10:46:28.5550

Yeah, well.... I hadn't seen or touched an amp for 30+ years, thought MIDI was a dress length, drive was somethin' ya did in yer car, gain is what happens as ya get older,etc. I bought a used SV212 mk I and won a DT50 212. What a culture shock!! lol!!! With the help of the excellent people in this forum, not only did I update my DT50, but i've learned how any why one changes amps & cabs, what makes each different, how and why the DT does what it does, actually used MidiOx before DTEdit was born, got a Midi Mobilizer and learned how to use that, can use one of my amps as a cab with the other, hooked up both to a mixing board along with my PC, know the difference between balanced & unbalanced cables are, what trs vs. ts cables are (let's just say ALL cables, AES, XLR, instrument vs. speaker, etc.), used  the 4CM method to hook up a multi-effects pedal that I didn't even know how to use before coming here..........just a whole BUNCH of stuff that I knew absolutely nothing about. Why, I can now even replace and bias my tubes....and know what and why I must use the tubes that are used. ALL from this forum!!!!! So, this topic is NOT totally useless. It made me feel like a Frickin' genius!! YOU guys made me a frickin' genius!!! Special thanks to geppert, who took a lot of time to research and answer questions I had that didn't even pertain to Line 6 equipment - my friend!!! Thank You ALL!!! YER THE GREATEST. That lad just doesn't know what he passed up on!!

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by PDKTDK on 2013-01-18 11:18:45.0250

...and before someone replies/starts bitching about fanboys, let me just point out that we have plenty of bitchfest threads here.  Far too many. There's nothing wrong with the odd praise.  Especially, when it is referring to the community as opposed to the product or the company.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by spaceatl on 2013-01-18 11:58:11.6100

I was being a little sarcastic...It's not a stupid thread...It just leaves me with the impression of someone who just gave up because they couldn't get immediate gratification because it might actually involve learning something new...sorry, that part just annoys me...But to each thier own...I too have learned more things that I can count on this forum...I am so envious of the kids coming up today...The resources available are just endless...All the secret knowlege really isn't a secret anymore...

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by evilmikehoo on 2013-01-18 12:20:40.0430

LOL!! Oh, no - it's all good!! I liked your post. I understood the sarcasm and it was fitting. I totally agree with you. I just built on it and said something I've been wanting to say for a while, now!

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by PDKTDK on 2013-01-18 12:22:47.9280

Oh.... nevermind.

Re: Feeling a little rubed
by evilmikehoo on 2013-01-18 12:33:31.7220

I wasn't being sarcastic about all the good things I said! lol! I meant every word. I was just drawing from the vibe set by spaceatl's post. This is getting as confusing as a Line 6 amp!!!

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