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About ValiantGideon

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  1. ah! So excited! :) "This is not the update you are looking for" Line 6 is being all :ph34r: with us. :lol:
  2. Does anyone else have explanations/quesitons for this discussion or is the explanation/answer by Arnie where we leave it? It seems the M20D just can't have effects added to lines 13-16 even if they wanted to due to a hardware issue of not having enough DSP power to apply more effects to the DSP chain of those channels. Or if it is a possiblity do we need to just wait for the next firmware update for this possible change to occur? Even if this is where the discussion ends I am still very glad to not be the only one who has noticed this difference between channels 1-12 and 13-16. Thanks :)
  3. Congratulations! :) I honestly have not heard such a small set of speakers fill such large rooms as we have with our StageSource and StageScape. They're worth their weight in gold for getting rid of so many sound issues and allowing a musician to focus on making good music and having a good time. I don't think we've even come close to clipping and we've turned them (2 L3M's and 2 L3S's) up to ear bleeding heart pounding levels that we would never get to during actual performances. (with the sound still clear as could be mind you) We actually had a professional sound engineer come up to us one day after hearing our performance who said it was the clearest most crisp sound he's ever heard at something that wasn't a top notch profesional event. Enjoy falling in love lol
  4. Hmm very interesting. So judging by what you're saying, the fixed DSP power of the StageScape as a whole is not enough to have inputs 13-16 get the same effect suite as inputs 1-12? If that is the reason it would be a hardware issue not fixable by a simple firmware update. Bummer... Of course, it's not like this would be some huge end all deal breaker or ANYWHERE close to destroying all the good things that have come out of this mixer and how much equipment of ours it has replaced. :lol: We are very much enjoying our squeaky clean desk that used to be cluttered by a spiderweb of wires, towers, cd players, recording equipment, etc. But it does seem odd to have this predicament with all the R&D that this product must have went through. If they can still be used with microphones, mic'd amps, or anything for that matter that simply just uses a 1/4 jack instead of an XLR why would it be assumed that something as simple as a noise gate or FBS could not be included in the processing chain? Currently we have 2 microphones plugged into 13 and 14 and they have the normal fuzz that can be heard through the speakers. Of course while someone is speaking the fuzz is not that noticeable, but when they are silent it is a slight annoyance and distraction to hear this fuzz and feedback from the bleed of the speakers back into the mic. It would be nice to have a noise gate to eliminate this and even FBS to help when mics are used in these 4 inputs. Of course we don't have problems with this fuzz/FB for anything plugged into 1-12 since they have those 2 DSP effects available to them. I understand that it is unlikely that something that really is line in would need such effects but that still leaves the possibility for it to sometimes be needed. In the same way that not every device plugged into 1-12 needs effects such as EQ or Compressor but still has the option to use them, shouldn't this same philosophy be used for inputs 13-16. Does the StageScape really not have any DSP flexability available to add even just two very prized effects (noise gate and FBS) for simply 4 more inputs? Thanks for the info ArneLine6! :)
  5. linesixy, I hardly think pointing out that Line 6 does not mention that 13-16 do not have preamps is an accusation or attack. I love Line 6 and I'm sure they are an innovative enough of a company to appreciate constructive criticism. But per jeanpicasso's comment I'm not attacking, but that information just does not say anything about the "4 additional auto-sensing balanced line inputs" not having preamps on the hardware side let alone being anything lesser from the 12 mic/line inputs on the software side. If Line 6 made the 13-16 inputs lesser hardware-wise (which they did) it should say so in the print. If this information is expected to be known since line in's don't need preamps that is still not good to just "assume" the end user knows that because jacks 1-12 can also be line in since they are combo jacks yet have preamps. I found online a review that says such at http://en.audiofanzine.com/digital-mixer/line-6/stagescape-m20d/user_reviews/r.108117.html about there only being 12 mic pres. But that is not an official printed spec from Line 6, it would be nice if they themselves explained that the 4 inputs do not have pres on their website. As far as having effects is concerned, here http://line6.com/stagescape-m20d/features#autosensinginputsandoutputs they state that there are "Professional Suite of Dynamics, EQ and FX on Every Channel" yet this is not so unless it is once again implied that only the first 12 channels have full access to the whole spectrum of effects. If you think I'm attacking I'm sorry it seemed that way as I'm sure you are a fine and nice human being. But how does one point out a potential problem without taking a risk of maybe being wrong or it not being a problem at all. Please accept my apology linesixy as I do not wish to have any hard feelings between us both. ----------------------------------------------- Nevertheless, we still do not have a professional explanation as to why not having mic pres in 13-16 would have anything to do with their ability to use the full spectrum of effects on the software side such as FBS, noise gates, eq, etc. Besides not having mic pres, XLR plug in capability, and phantom power, I see nothing hardware-wise that should prevent 13-16 from having the same full suite of effects as 1-12. The only explanation we've obtained so far is that since they are line in and not mics why would we need to clutter the chain with effects that will not be needed anyway. (such as having the ability to add a noise gate or FBS to a synthesizer which obviously should not experience feedback or noise issues") But as we've seen from previous posts this is not a good enough explanation. As people who have filled up their 12 "full effect inputs" have no choice but to use any other mics or miced instruments they have on the remaining 4 line in jacks with considerably less effect processing abilities. IMHO, what would hurt with allowing this. Leave it to the user to determine whether they want to add a noise gate to an instrument instead of altogether limiting the options. In the same way that the DSP chain is not fully customizable at this current firmware iteration I feel this is another drawback that could (easily) in my opinion allow the musician/sound crew to put whatever DSP they want on whatever channel they want in whatever order they want.
  6. I don't think I have to defend myself as being a fanboy for line 6. I just don't like having answers given that do not contribute to solving a problem but instead just say "line 6 has done nothing wrong". no one is trying to "hurt Line 6's feelings" as this device is absoultely amazing and changed the whole way I do mixing. I am personally an owner of the Dream Stage with the M20D, 2 L3m's, and 2 L3's all linked with L6 link. Just like Dave, I am continually amazed as to how simple mixing, effects, reverb, etc. have become with this smart mixing ecosystem. I do, just like I'm sure Dave still does... wonder as to what not having mic preamps for 13-16 has to do with not having the same presets available to the 1-12 mic inputs. In my current situation we have the band plugged into all 12 mic slots with 2 wireless mics plugged into the 13 and 14 inputs. The problem is that I would like to simply turn on a noise gate and FBS for those wireless mics and I don't see what hardware issue actually would prevent these channels from having those features. I did not mean any harsh words towards Line 6 or anyone on this forum thread of course lol
  7. We are getting a little away from one of the topics. We are trying to find out why there are very limited presets on channels 13-16 as duselton asked. An explanation by simply saying why Line 6 should not be criticized is begging the question and not helping answer the question. Answer questions such as: Do 13-16 have preamps or not? Why does not having preamps limit the software side of channels 13-16 from having the full spectrum of important effects like feedback suppression, noise gate, eq? If it is because of not having preamps, why? If not and they just were not given the full spectrum of effects, then also why, and can this be fixed with a simple firmware update? Things duselton asked. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Also, I do not see here a confirmation as to whether the 4 additional line inputs have preamps since in this description the 12 are shown to also have the ability to be line inputs. If the description said "12 inputs WITH preamps and 4 additional non-preamped inputs" then I would be convinced of that part but would still then wonder what I think is now at the front regarding this issue. What would not having preamps have to do with not getting the full spectrum of effects, many that would seem to still be very useful on channels 13-16?
  8. I agree with Dave, if they do not have preamps in 13-16 then that in itself was misleading. (Unless I am missing somewhere in the description/specifications where it does say only 1-12 have preamps) I agree with him also on the question as to what not having "mic preamps" has to do with not being given the full spectrum of "effects/processing" available to inputs 1-12. They seem to be to separate issues that aren't connected in my humble opinion. Still, even if not having preamps is the reason for the lack of presets/effects for 12-16 it was at best misleading for them to make it sound like all 16 inputs were, on the software side of things, the same. sans phantom power of course. Though of course not XLR compatible those 4 TRS channels should have the same "essential" effects/processing such as eq, feedback suppression, noise gates, etc.
  9. I currently am using all 12 mic jacks but only 1 (specifically jack 11) needs phantom power (a condenser mic). There is an option to turn on 1-6 or 7-12 for phantom power but if only 11 needs the power could this possibly break/hurt the devices that are plugged into jacks 7,8,9,10, and 12 that do not need the phantom power. I now digress but it does seem silly to me that there is no option to just individually turn on phantom power for each jack. If this could be fixed in a firmware update I don't see why individually turning on phantom power would not be more desirable than the current 1-6 and 7-12 options.
  10. hmmm that's a good point I guess. I do see in a product description on Sweetwater.com though not here on Line 6's website that the 12 mic inputs have "mic preamps" but for the line in's it does not describe them as having preamps. I guess that could be a reason for the lack of preset options but I still don't see the complete reason as to what not having preamps (if that is so) in 13-16 has to do with not being able to have the full amount of DSP as the 12 mic/line in input jacks.
  11. I was actually coming to the forums just now for this specific reason of not having all presets for the 4 line in's. I noticed this when I plugged in a guitar to input 13 and was not able to find a preset chain that had a noise gate and feedback suppression. lo and behold I found MOST of the presets are not available for the 3 line in's. Why in the world are the 4 line in's not able to have the full spectrum of presets as the other 12 channels do? Is it a hardware issue because for all I know XLR and Line In (TRS cables) are pretty much the exact same when it comes to the type of signal they carry sans having phantom power. And could this be fixed with a simple software/firmware update?
  12. Is the "Mix Out (All Inputs)" an amplified signal? Basically with the whole system (2 L3M's and 2 L3S's) running through L6 Link I then wanted to plug a single passive monitor into the "Mix Out" with an XLR plug. After plugging it in I was met with absolutely no sound coming through the monitor (not even a whisper with my ear as close as could be). Unless I'm missing something there is no sound coming through the "Mix Out" plug to my monitor. Keep in mind that I am very aware of the 4 monitor outputs on the StageScape but our group uses the Aviom system and we have no need for those. Using those provided outputs would still not solve the problem of the signal not being amplified through the passive monitor.
  13. Well I mean I definitely am on the digital side of the Analog vs. Digital "war". As far as software being used as a live amp I feel the positives far outweigh the "negatives". I did actually try out plugging my modeler straight into a StageSource speaker by itself and it sounded just like the setup I stated above (going through the StageScape did nothing to degrade/color/change my originally intended sound). Amp modeling is an art in my opinion just as the art of setting up a "physical" analog amp/cab/mics/etc. is. So for me (I use Native Instruments Guitar Rig 5 Pro with the Rig Kontrol 3) I know for a fact that most of the "presets" that came with Guitar Rig sound terrible lol. BUT... after much tweaking (messing with the art of setting up my digital amps/cab/mics/etc.) I have awesome sounds that are not "trying to emulate some old analog amp" per se, but are creating a whole new sound. But in short, if you have awesome presets you've made yourself and plug into a StageScape L3M/L3T you will pretty much hear some of the most crisp and punchy emulation you've ever heard from a powered amp. IMO of course B)
  14. More specific to my needs, is it not possible to simply plug an XLR cable from a separate powered speaker to the out jacks of the L3M while connected through L6 Link. A more broad question would be, is the speaker just not able to use other I/O jacks while L6 Link is being used?
  15. I haven't plugged directly into the stagesource speakers we have because we use them as pa speakers that shoot out our final mix but I use an amp modeler (Guitar Rig) myself and our lead guitarist uses the HD POD. We plug directly into the mixer (M20D) from our modelers and then sent straight to the StageSource Speakers in the Main Mix without any change. The speakers (L3Ms) have different settings on the back but since we use them on "PA/Reference" the modeler sound passes through without any noticeable differences and as though you were listening to it through headphones or recorded on a DAW and played back.
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