theweirdguy

I am very happy that it worked for you... I wish it would have worked for me :( "is there a buffer in your Ampete Spyder switcher?" Wishing you continued success...

Thank you everybody for your great suggestion and friendly support! I'll let you know how it tuns out...

Thanks for the great advice!! Yes my hope is to profile the tone I already have.... I posted a video of my sound above... its very organic and simple but harmonically very complex...... on that video I using a marshall jmp1 preamp into a marshall 50 watt combo (FX return just the power stage) There are Mezzabarba kemper profiles on the net I ahve seen them and heard them they sound sweet, ... let me try the Kemper and I will let you know how that turns out.... its a darn Shame the Helix was perfect except for the FX loop dullness that dulled the organic sound of the tube amps in the loop... I am sure they will straighten that out in their future models....

I wish it were that easy bro... The digitech stuff sounds spectacular "in the FX loop of the amps" .... plus I hate pedals, those cables, the oxidation of the jack ends, the drunk fans tripping on them, the beer being poured on them... its Torture! Remember that I play over 250 shows a year... lots of our fans are drunken Brits and they jump right on stage "with their Beers" .. pedals? a pedal board? No way! ıf you noticed on my original diagram of how I planned to use the Helix I planned to use it on a music stand and hook it up to a Rocktron Midi raider foot pedal which would do the actual stomp switching...The Midi Raider is indestructible and its the "only thing" on the floor.. its phantom powered through the 7 pin midi cable so there are not a lot of cables on stage.... just one cable one foot control....all the effects are in the rack... it sounds great! and is clean and simple.. the only problem is that it weighs a lot (the rack in the back the map, the Midi Raider is made well so its heavyweight... I am just trying to get a lighter newer version of what I already have.... so I have no allergy against digital effects.. I prefer multi processors over analog boxes for ease of use... I use a very simple organic tone that is rich and tasty... the digital effects are in parallel and stay out of the way of the amps tube tone... This is what I am trying to sound like without dragging around a truckload of gear...

Being the glutton for punishment that I am , I have decided to buy a kemper and try it out too... :blink: duhhh Why? What do I have to gain? Why torment myself with this "Quest of frustration" ? We are electric guitar players! We do not make any sense in any way, our whole life don't add up, we are freaks for nature... We are illogical emotional spaced out old souls trying to find and share that sound in our heads... But once in a while amongst the kayos of our existence something "clicks" and we enter a "special zone reserved for the most high" and we play our hearts out as people listen and are moved, touched and freaked out all at once.... Thats what I felt when I first saw Jimi....leslie, Johnny, and Carlos... Yes we are all a bunch of nuts thats for sure, it takes one to know one and I think you know what I mean.... Lets keep each other posted of our exploits fellow tone brethren.. God Bless and take care... see you down the line ... Cheers

Yes I also owned the Gsytem sold it in 4 days.. the guy I sold it to sold it in 3 days and cursed me for life, the guy he sold it to tried to run him dow etc... The G system is the most incompatible "you have to do it my way or die trying to do it your way" unit I ever came across.... I cringe when I think about it :wacko: .... God help us all , we are all gear possessed zombies... :ph34r:

Thank you for your viewpoint which is a very good one.... it makes a lot of sense for sure... but the reason I came to the conclusion that I thought this "dulling of the amps tone" in the loop of the Helix was due to the Analog to Digital converters in the Helix is that in my mental troubleshooting of trying to find out "why it sounds dull?" I did have one extra piece of past experience to draw upon that I didn't mention in my previous post... Before I bought this Helix I did own an AXEFX XL II , I was not happy with the AXEFX either for many reasons and sold that unit as well...... but in my evaluation of the AxeFX I did use the 4 cable method in the same manner I mentioned here as I did with the Helix and with the AXEFX it was very transparent and didn't homogenize the amps tone at all when it was in the FX loop of the AXEFX..... So what you say about the load and cable makes sense (and thank you for sharing your experience bro) but I used it the same way with the AXE FX and did not have this dulling effect on the amps complex sonic timbre.... And I dont use a cable , I use a wireless.. so it was the same wireless in both units.... so go figure? :wacko: In retrospect The Axefx was a friggen nightmare to use! I hated it! It was like the black monolith of bedroom guitarists who spend weeks tweaking each patch... Yuck! That why the HElix was so attractive to me... it seemed to be designed by guys "who actually gig for a living".... but I think that both these units were basically designed as "amp modelers direct to the board" first... and then all of the other possibilities and usable variations were "added on" as an afterthought... Now for guys like me who play over 250 shows a year it is integration with the gear I have and ease of use on stage that is the selling point for me.... Thats why I bought the Helix :( I would not use an AXEFX if you put a gun tomy head, I have enough "odds and ends in my life that battle for space in my brains ram" I am a musician not a scientist and the AXEFX was a lesson in frustration my wife gave me a rub and a beer after I sold it I was that totally burned out by that geek box... but to the AXEFX's credit it had the better more responsive amp modeling tones of the two units and a perfectly clear FX loop when using the four cable method.... am I sorry I sold it? No!!!!!!!!!!! :blink: I'm glad that monstrosity is out of my life! And if I ever bump into the guy who designed it I'm gonna slap him around for funking up my life.... As for the Helix, "sigh" :( ......... I think their next generation version will be the one I am looking for :( soooo close to being "the one" yet so far... So I am at the fork of the road in mylife now, do I become "johhny vintage gear" and slip a disc in my back? Or do I commit to total brain suicide and buy a kemper??? Ä°ts the only one I haven't bought yet.... I am so exhausted .... just thinking about this digital labyrinth devices gives me a headache.... I have forgotten how to play guitar :lol:

Please let me know how it turns out for you... maybe there is an adjustment somewhere that I missed, Good luck...

Oh well :( I finally got Helix this week.. Played it for two days.... and sold it today, I had some transparency issues with it and the tone of my tube amp together... I am now demoralized :( The fact that I didnt care for the amp modeling tones didnt phase me because that was not how I planned to use it.... I have included the graph on my first post of how I planned to use it ( just for the effects and control) .... But when I used it in the 4 cable method it drastically changed the multi timbral harmonic complexity on my boutique tube amps.. When the amp was in the Helix loop the Helix really took away the breath of the amp... and the "air was gone it sounded flat".... Guitar into to Helix guitar in put,, Helix effects send 1 to Tube amp input, Amp FX send to Helix FX return 1 Helix mono out 1/4 jack to FX return on tube amp.. Sounded flat... I took off all the effects, no nothing just dry through the Helix and it sounded dull... I dont want to use added EQ in the helix to prop up the sound... the amp should sound like the amp the Helix should be 100% transparent.. Possible explanations:: Bad Jacks:: replaced them all Guitar Ä°nput gain :::tried every setting with the pad and -20 db to +4db it was all the same Tried different USÄ°NG loops:: 1,2,3,4 all the same, yes I had removed the amps and cabs in the patch, The chain was I had a compressor for use first but it was turned off , then a valve distortion "ready to be used as a clean boost gain on 2.5" but turned off then a sen/return loop block, then a simple echo and plate reverb ... "all FX were turned off"... when I used this (when the amp was in the loop it sounded flat).... tried adjusting send and return levels nothing changed... turned up the "dry through" signal and again sounded dull.... My tube amp has a parallel FX loop with a mix control.. first I set it to totally wet (series style) sounded flat then increased the dry signal of the amp still the FX's sounded dull... not blatantly dull but to my ears "the magic was gone" I think the analog to digital converters in the effects loops are the culprits.... Anyway I have been watching Helix Demos on youtube 2 hours a day for like 6 months and this was a big letdown for me I had high hopes for this unit... I'll try the next version when it comes out .... the unit is not bad but with the 4 cable method my amps lost their magic... and frankly I am very tired of futzing around with gear.. I just want to simply play guitar for a while this whole thing has been very spiritually draining... Another explanation is that I should stay way from digital gear because my brain and my ears seem to be tuned to analog sound.. "but" my number one and number two rigs uses a digitech GSP21 Digital FX and it sounds great in the effects loop of the Marshall JMP1 preamp I use in my first rig ...with the 20/20 stereo marshall power amp .. in my second stage rig it also sounds great in the FX loop of my Mezzabarba italian boutique amp... so it seems that the digital effects are not the problem in the FX loop of the amps because both my setups have "a parallel FX loops where I can mix a dry pure tube amp signal into the FX loop of both the marshall JMP1 and the Boutique Mezzabarba amp... "Yes I checked for phase cancelling and thats not the problem here" The problem happens only when I put the tube amp in the effects loop of the Helix, I loose those complex harmonics in the tone that gives it breath! I tried everything and have come to the conclusion that it could possibly be the analog to Digital converters in the Helix.... Its a darn shame cause I had very high hopes for this unit... :( Oh well I am packing it up now I sold it online a few hours ago...:( Shucks man.... oh well back to the drawing board.... So I have learned that to my ears the effects sound better in the loop of the amp instead of putting the amp in the loop of the Helix with the 4 cable method... Hope to catch everyone next time... thank you for your suggestions and support.. God Bless and stay well... Awesome John...

yes :) but the old Fender maps and marshal amps from the 60's are still going strong .... I am using Italian MEZZABARABA amps now.. point to point wiring no circuit boards I'm set for the next 30 years....

Yes and no, 100 degree heat, 95% humidity, "night time humidity drizzle from the salty aegean Sea that would rot a harley davidson etc" the conditions under which I play are torment,ng to gear.... its not a normal gig.. it is 265 back to back abnormal gigs... You gentleman don't understand the extreme conditions under which we work here... so I don't blame you for thinking that..

Yes .. "but" they are built by the same manufacturer with the same mindset... I am not yamaha bashing but I have my past experiences to draw upon... hence my fear...

Now But I grew up in "Little Italy NYC" ... and love my italian friends... My body is 95% pizza :)

Brother if you read what I wrote carefully you will see that I wrote "Amps".... yamaha Guitars , pianos, keyboards, are fine but their older amps just rot on the road.. so When I buy a Yamaha amp or related product I figure 2 or 3 years then its a liability on the road so now I accept that reality when I buy them and just sell them when the time comes before they self destruct. Also again if you read carefully where I use my gear is one of the most humid hot and dusty places on earth... its not a climate controlled studio where gear lasts forever ... so I have my own past experience to draw upon..."I've learned my lesson" :) I am not saying Yamaha sucks, (or else why would I buy a Helix???) I'm just saying I will baby it and sell it in two years...."while it still works" :)

That area includes the lovely Greek islands and the famous Turquoise Coast of Turkey .... I grew up in New York, starred in a off broadway Musical as Jimi Hendrix in 1979 :) After a twist a fate took to Turkiye I loved the low crime, great weather, nice warm people, CLEAN NATURAL FOOD and I saw that all my friend back home in the USA were dying like flies from cancer I figured I'd hang out a while.. met s sweet gal had a kid etc..... The world is a big place lots of cool places to check out... A guitarist never goes hungry... just open up your guitar case and start playing on the street :) you will make you dinner money and probably met a sweet lady whose house you stay over :) "its a rock and roll life" :) I'm an old fart now but I still rock