DammKid

I like to dream Yes, yes, Right between The sound machine On a cloud-of-sound I drift in the night Any place it goes is right Goes far, flies near To the stars, away from here Well, you don't know what You can find . . . Last night I held Aladdin's lamp And so I wished that I could stay Before the thing could answer me Well someone came and took the lamp away I looked Around A lousy, can Was all I found Well, you don't know what You can find . . . But you might as well try it find it Anyway, eh?

Well-Well! Someone else capable of smelling the tacos on this sordid affair, and apparently, his own farts as well! Lovely stuff! But so what? Is this concurrence with the rapidly growing majority supposed to mean that we're now somehow "buddies"?

Haaaa! Yes indeed! We can be grumpy! $1,400 worth of grumpy! Hell, I get "grumpy" over $5 these days!

Bye!

"Ok, at this point I'm just replying because you're reacting so hilariously. I'm quite a few years from being a teenager, but I'm also not an idiot, so the irony of this is quite wonderful." Yeah, yeah . . . well, you're perfectly welcome to find whatever "wonder" you and your ilk care-to in all of it, hotshot, but its veterans like me, my sons, and countless others that have fought to preserve that right for you to do so. You feel me? Having been around the world and seen your alternatives first-hand, I certainly hope so! And you may not be a teenager in chronological age, but you most certainly are one, in terms of intellect. Howz that for ya on the scale of "Hilarious"?? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

"Aw, grumpy people are so cute on the internet." Haaaaa! Too funny! No worries there, Junior! We're all good (Clint, me, everybody!). I've got sons that are 40+ years of age, and like me, they're veterans, business owners and champions of the American cause. Also like me, they've learned a couple of key lessons in life - one of which is to hire teenagers (like you), while they still know it all!

I believe the lesson would be to verify your concerns before you start a conversation in a user forum, but apparently not. WRONG! The lesson was "verified" when the seal on the external packaging was broken, period, paragraph! So apparently, I was right all along - you DON'T speak the King's English.

I've since spoken to the vendor, and to their credit (at least somewhat!), they've agreed to own this mess. They've acknowledged my initial message about NOT shipping me unopened packages . . . they've agreed that the collective circumstances clearly point to a previously owned unit . . . they've agreed to provide a pre-paid return shipping label for it . . . and they've agreed to send out (immediately), a new, guaranteed "unopened", factory-sealed box, with NO firmware update, and with Express (overnight) delivery at their expense. So, we'll see how tomorrow goes. I'll take this opportunity to add that yesterday afternoon, I finally got through to the folks at Line-6, and they confirmed for me that they don't specifically authorize ANY of their vendors to 'pre-open' factory packaging (or seals) for ANY reason, let alone firmware upgrades, and secondly, after providing them with the serial number from the EXTERNAL packaging of this specific unit (Note: that little detail is for YOU, "GunPointMetal"), Line-6 confirmed that the unit's serial number, was in-fact an OLDER one. So, what's the lesson in all of this (at least for those of us who read and speak the King's English!@#%&*) ????? . . . . Its clearly - BUYER BEWARE! Yours truly, Grandpa, And to GunPointMetal - Dude, I can whip ya with both brains tied behind my back! Because trust me . . . in a battle of wits, you're completely unarmed!

So wait...you came here and started the thread before you even unboxed the item? *facepalm* Can you read the King's English, Nitwit? Or is it that your entire generation is just brain-dead??? Try READ, Junior!

This information will probably strike everyone here as coming a bit late to the story, but what I'm adding here is absolutely and factually true. This morning was the first opportunity that I've had to actually "open" the internal Helix Rack box and fully inspect the Helix unit itself. Now keep in mind that the unit initially arrived here double-boxed (black-colored, slide-to-open Helix Rack box, packaged inside a once-sealed plain cardboard box labelled Line-6), and that it was the broken seal on the external factory (Line-6) plain cardboard box that prompted the initial writing of this thread. I had not yet seen the internal contents at time of writing. The fact is, I've been away from home and quite busy this past few days, so this morning, was in-fact the first opportunity I've had to actually open the slide box and inspect the actual Helix Rack unit. When I did so, I observed the unit itself to be packaged inside of a transparent, heavyweight external plastic bag that has been cut or torn about midway down one side, with an adhesive seal that had also been broken, and most importantly, there are NO sheets of protective plastic film on the display window or any other parts of the Helix Rack face plate. And so, in summary, we have an external box with a broken seal, an unsealed or unsealable internal (slide) box, a torn or cut plastic bag enclosure with broken seal, and NO protective plastic film on the display or any other part of the faceplate. Now, regardless of what the merchant may claim about having opened the packaging to update the firmware, these four (above) factors, in combination with the fact that the merchant was fully advised NOT to send me a previously opened package, effectively ENDS this discussion! The absence of protective plastic films in particular, clearly points to this unit having been previously owned and returned, and/or opened and sent to Line-6 for service, and/or used for whatever purposes by whomever! Whatever the case, my fears would appear to have been confirmed, and the unit is certainly NOT qualified to be sold at full retail price. Thus, it will be returned to the merchant for a refund (no exchanges) post-haste. They're DONE! And whether this particular merchant "needs" my future business or not, is completely irrelevant to me. Cheers!

Vonprater, Right! Although you and I are certainly in the minority on this, I'm pleased beyond words to see that someone out there (no matter how few they are in number), can see the principle argument here, buried in the superficial weeds, like whether it has a warranty or not! So thank you very much for your post.

Arislaf, Nope, no real worries here! As a U.S. veteran of an immensely unpopular foreign war (Vietnam), I think it's safe to say that many, if not MOST Americans, would likely agree with your sentiments on this, particularly with respect to Vietnam, the Falkland Islands, Nicaragua, Desert Storm (Kuwait), Iraq, Syria, perhaps even Afghanistan? The sad fact is, Americans are absolutely masterful at hindsight. However, much like me, I suspect those same Americans would argue that the two World Wars were a completely different story. Anyway, there you have it! Now, if the moderators here so-choose, they can ban us both! And if they do, I'll quickly and gladly return my Helix. Haa! ;-) However, I WOULD support the moderator's, if they chose to permanently close this thread, because as others have duly noted, it is not (was not) intended to be a political topic or a political arena.

Yup. I completely agree and no worries. The central question on this thread was basically answered long ago - that I'm an "overly-demanding, overly skeptical, old school a@@hole", and like I said, I'm O.K. with that. In fact, I'm actually somewhat "proud" of it! Cheers!

Not to forget nationality. ;-) (probably the most significant factor) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Haa! Good point! How could I have forgotten that, eh?

Haas! Nah. Not really, Just boring stories of . . . Glory Days, from those of us who miss the pre-devious, pre-Super Capitalist, pre- screw-everybody-you-can-as-quickly-as-you-can era in America. But then, depending on your age and generation (i.e., millennial, gen-x'er, boomer, yada-yada), your mileage can and likely WILL vary. And despite the fact that your User name is "Just Startin'" . . . I won't bother to venture a guess. ;-)

DB, Ditto! My thanks to you as well, both for your service to this country and its many citizens, legal and illegal ;-), and for your posting. I'm glad that your experience with these Helix units has been a positive one, and I'm also pleased to hear that my former neighbor's WWII story resonated with someone out there. Like countless others in this country, both past and present, that former neighbor and friend of mine was an un-wavering, un-apologetic, American Patriot, and by today's standards, perhaps even a "hero" (a label that I'm quite sure he would have vigorously disagreed with), but like this great country, he and his kind, will ALWAYS be remembered and cherished, by folks like me. Thanks again, and best of luck to you in your own musical adventures. SHAPES OF THINGS The Yardbirds (1966) Shapes, of things before my eyes Just teach me to despise Will time make men more wise? Here, within my lonely frame My eyes just hurt my brain But will it seem the same? Come tomorrow, will I be older? Come tomorrow, may be a soldier Come tomorrow, may I be bolder than today? Now, the trees are almost green But will they still be seen? When time and tide have been. Fallen, into your passing hands Please don't destroy these lands Don't make them desert sands. Soon, I hope that I will find Thoughts deep within my mind That won't displace my kind.

No, Detective, I don't imagine you did . . .

Thanks to all of you for your opinions and postings on this topic. As always, I appreciate every one of you, and I greatly value your opinions. The general consensus here clearly appears to be in favor of the merchant(s), and like I said from the outset, I'm all to aware of the raging skeptic that resides in me, so I have no problem with that whatsoever. In fact, if anything, its reassuring for me to know that others have experienced the very same circumstances, and that most had no issues accepting those circumstances. In addition, as others here have duly noted, if I were to return it, in all likelihood, any and all other units the merchant might ship to me as a replacement, would also have been opened for the very same reasons. Hence, I'm simply chasing my own tail. Nothin' new there! And so, we'll go ahead and keep this opened Helix Rack here, and begin the learning process with it. From everything I've read and learned, it sounds like a great piece of gear, so it should be good fun. Cheers! And thanks again! ;-)

Thanks. That's most helpful. I guess that short of unpacking this silly thing and firing it up, I have no real way of knowing how old it might be or just what its current firmware is.

So, a good question from us Helix newb's might be . . . what version of firmware SHOULD it be running at this point? They've been making this thing now for about three or more years - what's the newest rendition? Is it 2.71? No clue.

Hear! Hear!

All great points. Thanks rd2! Its really kinda funny. They say that more than 50% of current-day millennials not only classify themselves as "socialists", but more than 80% of them believe that America is not currently a 'great' country, and fully 90% of them, don't believe that it EVER was! That statistic tells it all. At age 67, and as a combat veteran of Vietnam, I think all of this is just the "old schooler" in me. I've gotta share a meaningful story with you guys here . . . Almost 30-years ago, I lived next-door to a very dear elderly man (age 70+), that was a decorated World War II veteran. He served on a destroyer that stalked the Caribbean. He'd often tell of a day when after many hours of hunting it, they finally managed to sink a German U-Boat (submarine) with depth charges. Talked about how late that afternoon, after seeing debris, diesel fuel and bodies floating to the surface, they finally lined-up 70+ bodies of deceased German submariners on deck, all deemed to be less than 20-years of age. A week or so after sharing that story with me, and about 8-weeks after purchasing a book of 20-cent stamps at his local Post Office, he returned the partially unused book of stamps, simply because the Postal Service had since raised their price to 22-cents per stamp, which to him, was a material "breach of contract". True story. That's how much "change" there has been in our "new" America!

GunPoint, Thanks for your candor and opinion on this. I greatly appreciate it, and I can't disagree with any of it either, because the circumstances could be completely innocent, just as the merchant (and you) claim. I wish that I could find a way to shake the inherent skeptic in me, but I'm afraid that some of the antics that have taken place in the commercial American marketplace over the past 10-20 years have severely tainted me. Case in point: Best Buy has been indicted in the past by the Attorneys General of several states for selling returned and/or defective electronic merchandize "as new" to unsuspecting and unadvised consumers. Fact! P.S. - However, the fact that you experienced the very same thing with Guitar Center is an important addition to the discussion.

Phil, Good question, but I haven't unpacked it (only inspected the external packaging), which raises another great point that I would ask both the retailer and others here to keep in mind . . . Line 6 has been making this thing (the Helix), for a number of years now, so its not like its a brand new model with a very limited (and recent) production time. Hence, without checking serial number and/or firmware, etc., the consumer is left uncertain as to its date of manufacturer or origins, and to determine any of that, the consumer (not the profiting retailer), has to go to the trouble and inconvenience of calling or contacting Line 6. And guess what? Line 6 (or Yamaha), isn't answering calls right now. They've got their phone message system directing all Line 6 callers to on-line Support tags only.

Yeah, I get that, but warranty service isn't what I'd be interested in or pleased with on a $1400 purported "brand new" item, that easily could have been a previously owned and returned device. That's the central point of this. As a frequent consumer of various electronics over the years, I've routinely encountered instances where I receive a brand new item (unopened, in factory sealed box), that requires a firmware upgrade. Doing so isn't quantum mechanics. Color me hard-nosed, but I submit that whether truthful or not, the decision by any retailer to pre-open ALL such boxes ahead-of-time, to simply spare the consumer 2-5 minutes of their time by upgrading the firmware for them, is a fatally poor one.