mcdaniel52761

Yep....you're right. I plugged it in today in the effects loop and all of the presets that were based on distortion sounded about the same regardless of which amp modeler was used. There was a little difference but nothing crazy like I was hoping for. I did notice that turning the cab off in the chain made it far more "unmuffled" sounding. We were talking about the pre-amp block vs. just the amp block thing and if you take the amp block down to just the preamp block all it does is lower the output so that when you turn the volume knob up it sounds just like it did when using the amp block :( Looks like I'm going to be ordering some studio monitors. Before I do though, is there any reason I would (should) consider FRFR speakers instead? And like studio monitors, I assume that they are (ideally) used in pairs as well? I'm really hoping that the stereo effect will sound better than my 412! On a side note, I stopped in a local shop today who was the phrase "sound and lights" in their name just to see if they had any studio monitors and they didn't he was asking me what I wanted to do and I was explaining to him about this whole 2cm into the effects loop and bypassing the preamp thing. Knowing that I had a 2203 with an effects loop, he told me that some Marshalls have a circuit where you can bypass the preamp and some don't. I said yeah, the effects loop. He told me that the effects loop doesn't take the preamp out of the picture and I should just come out of the Helix and plug it straight into the front of the amp where the guitar input should go. I left.

I know....and I do love it. BUT I've never liked the sound I've gotten out of it because (I'm guessing) I have to be in the same house with my wife and 5 dogs and they'd all disown me. Not only that, but then we're back to square one again with the Helix so....there's that. I probably won't sell it because I'd take too much of a loss although I did find my sales receipt from 2005 when I bought the head for 1999.99 from Zzounds and noticed that they're going for $3549.99 now. That's nuts! I wish I would have gotten a 50 watt head but there again if the amp modeling in the Helix isn't going to play nice with a tube amp like that then there's no point.

It pretty much is. I mean, I have a side in the basement where my guitar stuff is and I play loud enough that between the music and the guitar itself, if someone was standing next to me talking I probably couldn't hear them or at least clearly. Think maybe a bar scene but not an arena :) I currently run my music through a Logitech Z-5500 surround computer speaker setup. Supposedly 65 watts each satellite speaker (x4) and then a 10" sub that is supposed to have 180 watts. rd2rk mentioned the Yamaha HS7's and those don't look too bad. I didn't realize that they were powered speakers so I was thinking I'd have to get speakers plus some sort of an amp to push them so all in all the price is good. I'm trying to wrap my head around how these small speakers are going to have the "balls" I guess for lack of a better word to output that much sound and handle the distortion but maybe that's just because I'm use to using amps with 10" or 12" speakers. The HS7's are $660 and the HS8's are $798 at Sweetwater. Would there be much of a difference in sound between these two? or would you recommend something different? There are setting on the back of the speakers that have a selector switch for Room Control 0, -2db, or -4db...High Trim +2db, 0, -2db...and a level knob that has -10 all the way counter clockwise, +4db straight up, and -10 db all the way clockwise. What should these be set at for use with the Helix? As far as the level goes (Assuming that it's a volume level), how does that work in conjuncture with the Helix's main volume output knob?

Alright. So if we were to go shopping to replace the head and cabinet, what would you put in the cart...specifically? I know zero about monitors so a name and model number would be ideal as well as whatever else would do the trick. I'd prefer not to have to sell any major organs. Not to put this all on you, but you're far more versed in this than I am :)

OK guys….I think I’ve about got this nailed down but wanted to clarify a couple of things and hoping to give it a try this weekend at some point in time and then it’ll probably be questions regarding blocks and inputs and outputs in which I will start a new topic as this one will be a mile long. And yes, rd2rk that clarification was helpful. So I’m really leaning towards a 2 cable setup just running from the Helix mono out to the return on the amp head and bypassing the preamp altogether rather than using a 4cm and here’s my thought. I don’t turn that amp up much past 1 ½ or 2 for a room level volume so if I’m not driving that amp head at a high volume, going through the physical preamp on the front of the head (to me) wouldn’t make much of a difference in sound or tone or whatever you want to call it. I realize that I can’t (or shouldn’t) use amp modeling in the Helix and run that into the front input of the amp and double dip. However…(stick with me, I’m on a roll) If I ran the 2 cm and strictly used the effects loop on the back of the amp for power into the 412 cabinet and taking the physical preamp (and front knobs) out of play, I should be able to use amp modeling as well as effects. My little monkey brain says that in the Helix chain I should be able to put the effects that would normally go in front of the amp (distortion and what have you) and then insert an amp modeler and then the effects that would go after that like chorus, delay, etc… or, for that matter put whatever wherever I wanted to, Yes? So a chain would look like: Guitar or Multi>Distortion>PreAmp>Delay>Chorus>Not sure if this would stay at Multi or I should use something else. The reason I’m questioning this is that in the first reply, Silverhead said: “By not using 4CM you will be missing out on the ability to use the amp modeling in Helix. Using both a Helix amp model as well as your Marshall preamp simultaneously will sound horrible. Also you will lose the ability to position your FX blocks either before or after the preamp section of your Marshall. You will be restricted to using your Helix as an FX only device, with all FX blocks positioned before your Marshall in the signal chain.” I don’t understand why you couldn’t use amp modeling if you were using a 2 cable method. The second sentence I understand 100%. I also understand that I will lose the ability to position the FX blocks before or after the preamp section of my Marshall…BUT I could place them before or after an amp model in the Helix chain on a preset or in creating a new patch or whatever Helix calls it. Now, providing that I’m right about all of what I said above…rd2rk, you mentioned the pre-amp, full amp, and full amp+cab in the modeling choices. If I’m using the 2203 strictly for power and going into a 412 cabinet, would I only use a pre-amp model? OR...should the full amp or Full amp+cab be in play here? Just using the effects loop and bypassing the physical preamp would make this a FLAT power amp, correct? And last question….If I’m using the 2cm, is there anything that I won’t or shouldn’t use such as IR’s or anything else you can think of?

Yes... it's certainly overkill but I'm married to it for better or worse. I won't be messing with the modeling until i get deeper into it but that helps for future reference. Since I'm using, or will be using, a 4cm and consequently putting the knobs on the front of the amp into the mix of things (rather than just bypassing it with the 2cm).... what would i set these to in order to not color or reshape what is coming out of the helix? If that makes sense. And in using a 4cm, does the volume on the helix or amp head take over? Just trying to get my foundation correct so the rest of the house isn't lopsided.

Suddenly at 54, I feel like the parent that needs help setting the clock on the VCR :( Ok....so I understand the part about not running and running into the preamp of the head. I have a lot to learn about the cab and IR blocks and I'm sure I'll be asking questions about those later on I'm sure. What does "Doubling up on the power amp section (I.e. using a full amp rather than preamp model in Helix) may sound good but be careful with the signal level going into the Marshall power amp." mean? I don't want to fry anything. When you're talking about switching these FX loops on and off, I assume you're talking about in the helix software and not the active/bypass switch on the back of the amp head itself? I should have said....and maybe this makes a difference.....that when I purchased this amp and cabinet all I knew was that "I wanted a 100 watt Marshall" not knowing that I would not be turning it up past 2 or so because I play along with .mp3 files and that's the extent of it. So what I'm trying to say is I don't turn the thing up loud enough to get any distortion out of it at all which is why I originally got the GT-PRO in the first place. I'm in the boat of I have what I have and now I need to make it all work at a house level more so than an arena. That said, would I still benefit from a 4cm using the Marshall amp's preamp since I'm not going to be driving it that hard?

I ordered a Helix rack and it's coming today. Excited and nervous at the same time. I've watched a few videos about the initial set up and they all seem to mention the 4 cable method when using an amp. I'm running a Marshall 2203 that has the effects loop in the head and a 412 cabinet. Previously, I had a Boss GT-PRO and I simply ran a cable from the main out on it to the effects loop return on the amp head so this 4 cable method is all new to me. In a setup like this am I better off just running the Helix with a single cable as I did with the GT-PRO or am I going to be totally missing out on something by not using the 4 cable method?