New to modelers. Just got an HX Stomp. Also new, an SDE3000EVH delay. Have tube (dry) amp, and 2 frfr cabs. Goal is W/D/W. This even possible w/ stomp??

[n22samm]

Hey all, 

Apologies, as I'm a total newb to modelers, and have been an analog, tube amp, etc (you know the spel) guy my entire life. 

 

But, I wanted to try something different, and also wanted something that wasn't a million pedals. With a new amp head being build for me now, and 2 frfr cabs, I was hoping to have a relatively simple w/d/w setup, especially considering the SDE3000EVH basically makes W/D/W routing an absolute breeze. 

 

... but now I'm wondering if I made a mistake buying the HX Stomp. It looked killer for the deal, and I saw something quick that made it seem like w/d/w was no problem. But... with all this gear arriving later today, I'm researching more and just making myself more and more confused. 

 

Now, I'm starting to wonder if I could instead just use the Stomp for stereo wet effects only (not ideal), and route it separate from everything somehow (since the frfr cabs have 2 inputs). I also *think* I could do everything where the Stomp is after the SDE, but... I don't exactly want this *after* a delay. 

 

Could I maybe somehow use the Stomps fx loop to do this? Or should I cut losses and return the Stomp? 

 

Ideally, I just wanted to run guitar into 2 (dry) pedals, then into the SDE3000 input. Then the SDE3000 gets routed through the (dry) amps fx loop, and then the SDE3000 has L/R outputs to run into the left and right amps (or, in my case, the fr cabs), and a direct output that bypasses the pedal (so I'd just get the direct line of guitar > amp, or the couple dry pedals I throw in between it). 

 

My home was to incorporate the stomp so that I could 1) get further wet effects with the delay, and 2) have decent cab sims and various ir options, eq, etc., so the frfr cabs actually sound decent and like a guitar amp. 

 

Maybe I could somehow do this by just running the stomp entirely separately from the SDE3000 w/d/w configuration? I think I could do this since the amp I have being built has both an fx loop, as well as a built in line out ( I won't have this amp for a month or more though, so I can only test w/ a standard amp). 

 

Umm... idk, guess I'm just looking for any tips, because I really have a total lack of understanding w/ digital gear and modelers and IRs and cab sims and you name it. Ironically, my other main W/D/W rig, using all tube amps... with stereo parallel line mixers and switchers and probably like 10 pedals on the dry side and 6 or 7 stereo pedals on the wet side... that was no problem for me to figure out at all lol. But this here, with just 2 pedals... and I'm stuck

[n22samm]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:32 PM, MGW-Alberta said:

 

That right there is a big part of your problem.

The idea is to do all the research and have a plan before you make a whole bunch of gear purchases.

 

There is a whole ton of misinformation out there about Wet/Dry/Wet.  I suspect most people who are interested in it don't really understand it nearly as well as they think they do.

 

Real Wet/Dry/Wet is possible on my Helix Floor but it is only partially possible with HX Stomp.  You can run Wet/Dry easily enough but Wet/Dry/Wet isn't really an option using just the Stomp alone.  You would need two additional pieces of gear.  A second stereo effect unit like maybe an HXFX and a splitting device like an A/B/Y box so you can take the signal going into the front of the amp and split it so it goes into both the amp and into the second stereo effect unit, which would then be routed to the side cabs.  Stomp would be run in mono, the other unit in stereo.  I don't know anything about the BOSS delay unit you mentioned but if it doesn't have other effects in addition to delay then I don't think it will be very useful in achieving Wet/Dry/Wet unless delay is the only effect you want in the sides.

 

There are plenty of YouTube videos out there.  

Just search for:  HX Stomp Wet/Dry/Wet.

There will be a number of results.  Most will call it what it really is: Wet/Dry.

Any video that is demonstrating real true Wet/Dry/Wet will be using additional gear.

Some will call it Wet/Dry/Wet using Stomp alone but they don't really understand what it is.

 

Yeah. I'm very familiar w/ w/d/w, and have a $10k plus setup, it's just done more the OG way. I wanted this as a second setup, to build around a head and cab I'm having custom built. But... Modelers are new to me. I watched a goodwood audio and a couple others that basically made it seem possible that it was doable with the HX Stomp, and it is with what they were doing. But once I thought more about how I wanted to use it with the SDE3000EVH, I'm not so sure. 

 

The only saving grace I can think of now, is that I have a DSM Simplifier, and also have a radial ab/y, so I think I can use one or the other to maybe maybe this work. Leaning toward the Simplifier, but, at that point... I feel like I should just run the dirt into delay, split it to my frfr wet cabs using the Simplifier for the "modeler" in a sense and just call it a day. Maybe throw a micropitch or H90 if I'm really feeling saucy. 

 

Still might keep the Stomp just to run with the 2 frfr cabs alone, and/or direct into my DAW or mixer. But I'm not sure I'll get the use out of it that I wanted w/ the SDE3000. 

 

Even if I just had it connected to the frfr cabs, I'd be happy with that. But I'm not sure the best way of getting the same line out signal to both units, without running them together. Maybe once my new amp comes, I can try running the SDE3000 as intended for w/d/w (using the fx loop of the dry amp), and then use the separate line out of that amp into the Stomp (is that possible?), and then split it left/right into my wet cabs, and effectively just use it as a modeler/cab sim, as well as a stereo fx unit in parallel with the SDE3000. Idk. 

[n22samm]

Yeah bummer, I know the helix can do it (and then I'm in fractal/neural dsp/fender tone master territory anyway, which I was trying to avoid. At that point I'd just spend even more, do it right, and go rackmount w/ an axeFX). I was hoping to just have this as a cheapish way of getting some additional fx on top of cab sim. since this is just a 2nd w/d/w, kind of mess-around setup anyway.

 

I guess at this point I'm deciding between whether I want to keep it for just headphone/DI use (or using with just the 2 frfr cabs), or just returning it. For the w/d/w rig I'll use my simplifier for now for at least getting some kind of options and being able to route everything and just stick w/ regular pedals in its loop.

 

 

[n22samm]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:26 PM, MGW-Alberta said:

In the case of Helix Floor you don't need the split box at all since Helix has stereo 1/4" outs as well as an AUX in.

As long as all your blocks on path 1 are mono you can send Left/Mono to the amp and send right to AUX in.

Because path 1 is all mono the right 1/4" output is an exact copy of the left 1/4" output.

Path 2 input would be set to AUX and all the stereo wet blocks would be on path 2 and sent to the side cabs via XLR outs.

 

Actually, hold up ... (more a follow up to my last comment)... what if I routed it like this (drew this up super fast trying not to forget, but general idea that kind of came to me quick as a possible solution. It's not perfect, but I think it'd at least allow me to make the most of the SDE3000, use my own pedals for the dry/front end [which is what I wanted anyway], while using the Stomp predominantly for taking the aforementioned signal and bringing it to the wet/frfr cabs. I think this would even allow me to place the SDE3000 correctly in the chain of the stomp if i wanted to run other effects too, though honestly outside of reverb and maybe a modulation occassionally like chorus or something, I think i'd mostly just have EQ, and then cab sims.

 

— hopefully this diagram shows my routing the way it is in my head (here's an image link in case the attached file is blurry): 

 

 

 

So basically guitar > dirt/dry pedals > SDE input. Then use the SDE's direct out (meant for sending to dry amp in w/d/w configs) to my amp's input. Then take the send from the amp's fx loop and run that into the input of the Stomp. The left and right FX output from the SDE would then go into the FX/Aux return (which, from my understanding, would allow me to place the delay wherever I want in the stomp's chain), and then take the left and right output from the Stomp to send to the left and right frfr cabs...

 

I... think this should work? 

 

I'll obviously try it out. Just gotta make a few more cables and I'll try getting it set up when I have a break later today

[n22samm]

On 11/21/2023 at 12:22 PM, MGW-Alberta said:

The signal going to your centre channel needs to be fully dry.  Absolutely no time based effects at all.  That is the very definition of Wet/Dry/Wet.  If you're going to send time based effects to the centre then you might as well forget W/D/W altogether and just run stereo.  Stereo is a whole lot simpler and you should be able to figure out at least two possible configurations with the gear you already have on hand.

 

Refer back to my first diagram.

That's exactly how the setup I have drawn is. There would be nothing going to the center channel except dry. I know what w/d/w is, I already have a full and proper setup. This is my 2nd. 

 

I think maybe you aren't familiar with the SDE3000 enough? The output coming from the SDE3000 that's going to the center/dry amp is basically a thru, it isn't doing anything with time or modulation-based sounds. (using it basically tells the pedal you are running 3 amps in a w/d/w config, but it doesn't send any effect). I could also just put the dirt pedals either after the direct out (that I show going to the dry amp), or even in the fx loop of the SDE (this allows built in noise suppression of the SDE. Ideally I'd run the dry amps preamp/loop into the SDE's send/return, but then I wouldn't be able to send from the dry amp to the input of the Stomp)

 

That's why I diagramed it and routed it this way. It allows only dirt to go to my center/dry amp. Then the send goes to the Stomp. The actual SDE's FX are then routed into the Stomps FX/Aux returns, and those go to the left and right frfr / wet cabs. Nowhere in this diagram does it show any time-based or modulation/wet effects going to the center amp. 

[n22samm]

If it's helpful, here's one of the routing options from the manual/pdf guide Pete Thorn helped put out, taken from this guide: 

[n22samm]

On 11/21/2023 at 1:08 PM, MGW-Alberta said:

Placing a delay ahead of Stomp may also bring up some problems and/or limitations.  First, it will mean any blocks you add in Stomp will be already delayed.  That would not be my preference.  If that's how you prefer to order things, fine but you will be limited to that ordering method only.   I would order them mod, delay, verb.  You might consider using a splitter instead of the BOSS and then using the delays in Stomp where you can place them in any order you see fit.

 

 

 

It wouldn't be placed before the Stomp, though? If the SDE outs are going into the FX loop/AUX Return on the Stomp, that's not the same thing as running it into the inputs (running into the inputs would be what you describe; running delay before the stomp). But the Stomp's input is just getting the send of my Dry amp (which is exactly what you want in a w/d/w setup: the dry effects, and the dry amps's preamp, either before, or parallel line mixed with the wet effects [I use a g3 switcher and a Parallelizer stereo line mixer for this in my main w/d/w rig]. All my amps allow using just the send. It's basically the same as running the line out, except you get the power amp essentially when using line out.

 

I'd just grab another DI box if I really had to though, so that's not my concern. 

 

But back to the quoted reply: running them into the Stomp's loop would simply allow me to have the SDE3000 inserted into the Stomp, and have control over block placement/location; according to its own directions, this is how you would incorporate an external pedal with the Stomp, in a way that allows you to place it in any block and move it whereever you want. So I could place it, say, after a chorus, before a reverb and a cab block. Again, I haven't played w/ the Stomp yet, but this makes sense to me and is exactly how it's described. It's what a loop is for...

[atomicmjb911]

I'm wondering if you've worked this out. Looking to get the SDE3000EVH as well and do the same thing but instead of a Stomp I have an HX Effects.