The_Doc_Rock

Oh yes - don't get me wrong. Of course different pickups sound different. That's one of the reasons I have a guitar collection (at least, that's what I tell my wife) B) And yes, the pickups certainly contributed to the sound of "Money For Nothing". But while it's hard to put proportions on it, I'd guess that 10-20% of the sound was due to the pickups, and 80-90% due to the fact it was MK playing it. I think my point may have been missed somewhat. The point was that I interpreted the initial post in this part of the thread as asking what the pickups were in "MFN" so that @arislaf could change the JTV pickups in order to sound like that track. And my interpretation was obviously not quite what he was getting at, for which I apologized. I've been guilty (many years ago, though) of thinking that I could sound like somebody else by changing guitars, amps, pickups, etc - but I've learned since then that most of anyone's sound is due to the player. Some are more recognizable than others. Anyway - back to the main point of this whole thread - the puzzle as to why some people's upgrade to v2.0 of the firmware sounds really bad, while others' sounds great. It would appear that I'm not the only one with the problem, going on some of the posts earlier in the thread, but my support ticket didn't manage to come up with a solution. So I'm happy to stay on v1.9 and wait for v2.1 before trying again.

Sorry if my reply came across as unhelpful. It was not intended that way. But your question sounded as though you wanted to sound like Knopfler, and to do it, that you thought you needed to change out the pickups on the JTV. The point I was trying to make - and obviously didn't make it very well - was that Knopfler sounds like he does because he is Knopfler. Hank Marvin will always sound like Hank Marvin - no matter what he plays, and no matter what pickups are on it. There are just some players who have such distinctive playing techniques that result in highly individual sounds. And I really doubt that the pickups make much difference, to be honest. If you don't like the sound or the response of the mag pickups on the Variax, then fine, change them for that reason, to something you prefer. But to change them in order to sound like a specific sound - eg Brothers In Arms - would be an expensive mistake I suspect. Again, apologies if my reply was less than helpful.

First, the mags on my JTV69US are great. Second, the sound Mark Knopfler gets is NOT mainly due to his pickups (although they would play a small part). The sound is due to the way he plays, and to his touch. He plays with his thumb, not a pick, and the position of that very long thumb, along with the feel he imparts in the way he strokes or plucks the strings is the reason for his sound. Give almost ANY guitar to Mark Knopfler, and he will sound like Knopfler. Changing the pickups on any of your guitars is not going to make you sound like him. Wanting to change pickups, or worse - guitars - to something that somebody else uses, in order to "sound like them" is one of the big mistakes so many people make. I can pick up George Benson's guitar and play it, but there is no way that I would sound like George Benson!

@Al-Vixan: I'm in Australia, and I bought mine from the USA - not from Thomann.de I think it was back in 2011 going by the date I registered the instrument on the Line 6 web site. I did open a ticket, and Line6Hugo was very helpful, but we still couldn't fix the problem - the final suggestion was that it may be faulty electronics (eg RAM chips or whatever) COMBINED with the v2.0 firmware, given that everything works fine with v1.9 I did point Hugo to this thread, which he read, as I had mentioned that there were a few others that reported exactly the same problems. So yours is yet one more with the same problems. I'd suggest you open a ticket, and maybe refer to my ticket and to Line6Hugo, so that the same person deals with it. If they get more than one ticket, then it's unlikely to be JUST a problem with the hardware, and perhaps they can track down the problem and fix it in v2.1.... :) My ticket ID is 216662 I've just updated my ticket to suggest that Hugo look at this thread again, and your post.

I have updated sequentially with every firmware update since I got the guitar, and yes, surprising though it may seem, I did follow the instructions every time - to the letter. If I missed something previously, it was purely by error, not because I ignored the instructions - but of course an error is always possible. Your guess may well be correct - you'd win a 6-week holiday on a Great Barrier Reef island resort (hastily add that I'm kidding!!!) ;) I would be very interested, if any of the others are still reading this thread, to hear if anyone still has the bad sounds after the update or if a re-flash has fixed the problem. Or if they've simply gone back to v1.9 and are staying there, like I am now. Once again, thanks for your thoughts and ideas :)

@johnnyayyy: Many thanks for your detailed reply - appreciated. Just for the record, I've done pretty well all of the above, several times (the JTV has now been flashed 5 times with v2.0). ALL the flashes have progressed through to completion with no problems, and I received the "All OK" thingy at the end. They were all done via the USB interface. I had the volume up, modeling turned off (i.e. was on the mag pups), jack in the output socket, etc etc. Said yes to all the right prompts and no to the others like the one about keeping presets. Basically, I have done everything that you outlined above. \ When I did EXACTLY the same to my mate's Korean JTV69, the sounds that resulted were great. Mine couldn't have been more different - honky, mid-range sounds that sounded like an old telephone line. Like the 1KHz EQ was notched right UP, with everything else almost off. And that was after EVERY time. When I did the comparison with my mate's JTV, I used the "Update from file" method in Monkey, and used the exact same file that I had downloaded (actually the third download just to make sure it wasn't corrupted). The fact that it worked perfectly on his guitar but sounded awful on mine is where the mystery lies. I am as certain as I can be that (1) the upgrade file was OK, (2) the upgrade itself proceeded without error and completed, and (3) having done it 5 times now, the results are specific to my individual guitar. BUT - a few others have posted earlier on this thread that they got exactly the same thing - so perhaps it is something that is specific to SOME guitars? I have outline everything to Line 6 in my ticket. I am back on v1.9 and happy with it, as I was before I tried all this updating malarkey ;) I'll be patient and await v2.1 and try again. Returning the guitar is NOT an easy option, as I'm in Australia (imported the guitar from the US before they became available here), and the local importer is in Sydney while I am up in Queensland, with Australia being a BIG place! :) Thanks for your help, and the list of suggestions - appreciated.

LOL :) I don't have a problem with the proper use of the Quote button, as you can see. It's just that to use it for a quick two-word reply to a post containing huge graphics, seems somewhat superfluous... I opened a ticket, but have not yet heard back. I was delayed until a couple of days ago before opening the ticket (was in hospital - OK now though). And in the ticket, I pointed to this thread, along with my posting nick, in addition to a full description of the problems and what I have done to try and solve them, including that experiment with my mate's Korean JTV69 that sounded great with v2.0. Once I hear back from Line6, I'll post any progress on here. Thanks for your interest and help, SH :) Appreciated.

Why do people insist on hitting the "Quote" button to put a two-word reply, such as "Nice, thanks", but which makes the entire previous post, full of slow-loading graphics, load all over again? Even more of a pain for those reading this on eg an iPad. Just saying.... ;) Better just to use the Quick Reply at the bottom of the page. And for those who have been following this thread, I still haven't got any answers as to WHY some people's guitars just don't like this v2.0 firmware update, and give awful sounds. Like mine, and a few others who have posted here.... Wonder when v2.1 will be out?

Chuckewheat: even though I have my own problems with v2.0, yours sounds more serious resulting in a bricked guitar. My guess - and of course it's only that - is that the USB interface, the little plastic box with the lights in it - may be the problem. But that's just me taking a punt! Will be very interested to hear how it goes and what they find.

Thanks for that. Now that IS interesting - it's not JUST my guitar it seems. So I wonder what it is, specifically, in those affected, that is responsible for this result?

Thanks Silverhead (great nick, by the way). Yes, that method is exactly what I have been doing, including making sure that the JTV is in mag pickup mode, the volume is not set to zero, and used the supplied USB interface box - the little one with the two lights in it - both green. I also made sure that the battery in the JTV was a freshly, fully charged battery (may be worth adding to those instructions, by the way) just in case battery drain during the update caused any corruption. Although given that I've now done it 5 times, and got the "All good" message each time it finished, I think it can be safely assumed that the update PROCEDURE all went OK. I'm at work here, and can't really search back through the threads, but I'm sure that there at least a couple of others who posted that they got results similar to mine. Would it be worth messaging them and getting them to re-flash if possible to confirm the problem? Thanks for your help and response - much appreciated. I KNEW it wasn't just my ears...! :D

Well, just for fun, I tried a little experiment last night. A friend who has a JTV69 Korean came over to my place, and I upgraded his guitar to v2.0. And the sounds were good. (Except the Spank positions 2 and 4 which we both disliked compared to v1.9, but workarounds have been given as above). I then re-updated my JTV69 (US-made) one more time (that's the 5th time now) using the exact same file (I used Monkey and "Update from file" for both his and mine) and mine sounded TERRIBLE - again. Absolutely nothing like his, and nothing like the sounds that have been posted here. He hated the new sounds on my JTV as much as I did - yet HIS JTV sounded fine - except for the level mis-matches which need to be sorted out. So, there we have it. There is a problem with the new firmware and my individual guitar (and perhaps others on here who have posted similar results). The puzzling thing for me is that some sounds - particularly the Lester models - are great. Love 'em. So it seems not to be a systemic problem with the update and the guitar - it's something in the way the models are rendered in my guitar. And it can't be the guitar hardware - as v1.9 sounds just fine (and sounds the same as my mate's Korean JTV with v1.9). So if there is a problem with the digital electronics in my JTV (and perhaps other peoples' as well) such as the RAM problem that has been one suggestion, then it needs to be addressed. Same firmware file, two different JTV69s, vastly different results and sounds. Can't get any more definite than that, of a problem existing. New sounds on mine are honky, thin, low level, and sound like they're coming down a telephone line. On his guitar, they're brighter, sparklier, and have more "air" than the v1.9 models - just as described by so many on here. (apart from the Spank positions 2 & 4 problems). So - is this just MY guitar? If so - what the heck could it be? Or is it something that apllies to certain guitars of which mine happens to be one? There have been a couple of people posted on here that they get sounds like I get with the update - what is the common factor between our guitars? Line6 - you there? Once again, I'm quite happily back on v1.9. I'm getting to be quite a dab hand at doing these firmware flashes almost blindfolded by now... ;)

THAT seems to be the key issue, as far as I can tell. I don't think it's a corrupted download problem, given that I've downloaded v2.0 now on four separate occasions, and done the update 4 times in total, 3 using Monkey, and one using "Update from file". And the updates go through just fine - message at the end telling me all went OK, the works. But something - with my individual guitar - is very different from what others are getting and hearing. So my point is that while many - probably most - are getting an improvement in the models with v2.0, there are some who are getting bad results. I can't figure out what it is, but it is real. It's not my imagination. Comparing @guitar4u's sound clip of the 335 model with what my individual guitar sounds like using that exact same model is like listening to a real 335 (his clip) then listening to a cheap toy guitar down a telephone line! So yes - it seems to be something individual. Now if it's JUST mine, then I have an issue that I need to take up with Line6. But if some of the others who have posted that they are hearing similar to what I had, then the problem may be something that Line6 need to track down in the firmware. OK - off to work here, so will be "off the air" all day, and I have a gig tonight - will be the JTV69 via an M13 into my MusicMan HD130. And v1.9 firmware on the JTV... ;)

I agree completely. That's what I've been trying to say, basically. That there are issues, and not just opinions. SOMETHING is not compatible between v2.0 and my JTV-69US. I have no idea what that could be. Yet the v1.9 sounds are just fine (as were the earlier ones). Apart from the RAM suggestion somebody posted a few pages back, I'm not techie enough to think of what else the problem could be. And I doubt that it's mechanical (eg the piezos in the bridge) as it all works fine with v1.9. But something just ain't right - yes, there are issues. Those issues are specific to v2.0 firmware and my JTV-69 (along with a couple of others posting here, I think). But I have absolutely no idea what the issues are. One of the cover bands I gig with is predominantly a Shadows band (Hank Marvin, etc) - and requires a very specific type of Strat sound. I can get it from the JTV mag pickups. I can get it from the v1.9 Spank models. And of course I can get it from my '62 Strat. But there is no way I can get even close to it using v2.0 - on MY guitar. I'm not trying to suggest that the problem is the same for everyone - it very obviously isn't. But in my case, it IS a problem, and a real one.

Well, at the risk of sounding grumpy - I'd disagree that it is ONLY a matter of opinion. Of course opinion comes in to it. For those who have a proper set of sounds after moving up to v2.0, they either prefer the new sounds, or the old sounds, or a mixture. But what I'm talking about in my situation is NOT just a difference of opinion on the new sounds - it is that the new sounds are faulty. They are wrong. They are WAY out of whack - as I've already posted, they sound like somebody pushed the 1KHz EQ up full, and rolled off the top and bottom. The levels are significantly down compared to the mag pups, and too many of the new sounds do NOT sound anywhere NEAR the sounds of the real things. And that is NOT just a matter of opinion - it is a matter of fact. There is a problem here. It is a real problem, a fault. My ears may not be as golden as they once were, but I can tell the difference between a real Strat and the new models, or a real 335 and the ones in v2.0 which do not sound anything like a 335. And a couple of others have also posted that the new models are thin, honky, and low level, which could be that they have the same problem I had. But as you point out, v1.9 is still available - thank you Line6 - and I've reverted to it and all sounds fine again. One of the key points is that in the couple of videos posted above, comparing v1.9 with v2.0 sounds, the differences are there, but they are not dramatic - they are refinements, differences in clarity and top end, etc. But in my situation, the differences are VERY dramatic - and not for the better in v2.0 The new version - in MY guitar - does not sound anything like the ones being played in those videos. There IS a problem, Houston - it is not JUST a matter of opinion. PS: I tried last night to do what was suggested earlier - I went back to v1.7, then straight to v2.0, but it was no better. v2.0 still sounded awful. So I've gone back to v1.9, and will be sticking with it.

Thank you..!!! I thought I was all on my own there for a while :) Just kidding - seriously, there does seem to be some variation in the impressions of the v2.0 firmware in this forum, and even accounting for differences in taste and preference, I'd suggest that some of the less favourable impressions are due to real problems. For sure, there is no way that the sounds coming from my JTV were usable with the update. And they sounded nothing at all like the video clips that a couple of folks have now put up. In case anyone missed my earlier post, which has been bumped back two or three pages already, I do actually own a '62 L-series Strat (a real one), an ES-335, and an ES-175 (as well as a lot of others - but we won't get into my severe case of GAS...). So I do have some basis for comparison with the real thing. And v1.9 firmware, on my actual JTV, sounds VERY close to those guitars when switched to the models that are supposed to sound like them. But the v2.0 firmware sounds NOTHING like the real things. (Not all, as has been discussed. The Lesters in particular are good) We need to try and determine if we're looking at (1) a real problem here, and (2) what are the possibilities that could be causing the variation - why some have the problem and some don't. It needs a very logical approach and analysis. But I suspect that there MAY be a real problem for some - including me - and if anyone can think of possible causes then this may help Line6 in trying to sort it out. The suggestion someone made earlier about possible flakey RAM, and the new update needing more RAM, is a good suggestion to start with. Any other ideas?

Yup - that's the 335 sound alright. My real 335 sounds like that, and my Variax v1.9 sounds VERY close to that. Also, the clip posted above by @guitar4u sounds VERY close to that. All I can repeat is that the v2.0 firmware - in MY Variax - sounds NOTHING like that. It just HAS to be a problem with some interaction between the new firmware and the guitar. Perhaps the suggestion of a RAM problem has some merit? Or maybe something else altogether? If somebody from Line6 is reading this, could they shed any light on any changes to either the hardware OR the electronics in a JTV-69US from the earlier ones (like mine) to the newer ones? Could there be something there that is clashing or incompatible with the v2.0 firmware? It's not just the 335 - the only models that sound good or better in v2.0 on MY guitar are the Lesters (all 5 of them), one of the 12-strings (position 2), and the sitar. EVERYTHING else sounds really naff. To repeat myself - they are thin, honky and middy, lacking any depth of tone (sounds like a graphic EQ with 1KHz pushed all the way up, and everything else pulled right down), so no balls and no sparkle. And the levels are low compared to the levels of the mag pickups - probably 4-5dB lower at least. I did try to bring the levels of a few of the models up by 2-3dB using WorkbenchHD, which helped the level problem a bit, but the sounds were still awful. Currently, I'm happily back on v1.9. When I get home (still at work here), I'll try the suggestion of going back to v1.7 then bumping straight to v2.0, but if that doesn't work, I'm happy to stay on v1.9 until v2.3 or 2.4 comes out ;) Seriously though - can anyone from Line6 suggest any clues why this may happen? The problem seems to be located in the combination of my guitar and that firmware. It's obviously NOT just the firmware, which sounds good on other peoples' guitars.

Thanks guys - comments all appreciated. First, to clarify, I was doing the flashing via the USB interface that came with the JTV, and all worked well. Good battery in the JTV, and a jack in the output socket to turn the guitar on. No problems with the actual flashing, multiple times. The thought about going back to v1.7 then jumping to v2.0 is something that may be worth a try - might give that a go tonight (it's 11am Monday here in Australia, and I'm actually at work). The comments and speculation about the RAM is something that may in fact be a very valid point. Although several others have comments that the new sounds are "thin" etc. See Junis's post five above this one... and there are several others. But yes, I may just open a support ticket re this. And if the v1.7 straight to v2.0 trick doesn't work, then I'll wait for v2.x to arrive, just in case it IS a difference between different models of guitars (eg early vs recent). But the RAM is something that is to be considered - thanks for that suggestion. OK - better get some work done, to pay for this GAS, but will keep an eye on the forum between jobs :)

Well, I can tell you, having watched and listened to that video, two posts above this one, twice now, through my studio monitors, that the v2.0 firmware, on MY guitar (JTV-69US) which looks the same as his, sounds NOTHING like that. I'd be tempted to say that there must be a problem with the piezos on my guitar, or something - except that with v1.9 mine sounds GREAT! There's cetainly a lot more top end, and "air" in those new models - but I just don't get them when that firmware is loaded into my guitar. Three times I've done it, with fresh downloads each time. Twice directly with Monkey, and once via "Update from file". And they ALL (with the exception of the Lester - go figure) sound thin, honky, and no balls. But v1.9 sounds just fine. Surely there just HAS to be a difference between the guitars, doesn't there? How else can we explain that some are delighted with the upgrade, and some hate it? The very same file? What could the difference be between the guitars? See my post just above here...

Thanks for posting this, Rich - I appreciate the points you make. Couple of points: I re-downloaded the v2.0 firmware twice - a total of three times, in case it was corrupted. I updated the JTV using both the direct download via Monkey, and also the "Update from file" method just in case. So in total, the guitar has been flashed three times with v2.0. And in all cases, the models sounded the same. I appreciate that there is a difference between me actually liking or preferring one lot vs the other lot, but the new models continued to sound very thin, honky, and lower in level compared to the mag pickups. I also tried the sounds through three different amps, all very clean, as outlined earlier. Same results. I then rolled back to v1.9, and immediately, the sounds were back to their former glory. I think the summary I would put on the new sounds is that they lack balls.... ;) Now - your .wav file of the 335. It sounds great, and it sounds very much like both my real 335 AND my v1.9 Variax 335 bridge position. But the new v2.0 335 sounds NOTHING like your sound sample when played on my JTV. SO: what I'm starting to wonder, given that there seems to be a completely divergent set of opinions on here about the new models (love 'em or hate 'em), could there be some difference in the actual guitars that makes the new models sound great in some, and awful in others? Mine is the JTV-69US - the US-made model. I've had it for about 18 months (maybe a little longer), having imported it from the US as they weren't available here in Australia at that time. In fact, the JTVs had been available in the US for months before Australia even got a whiff of one! Problems with the importers here, I think. So I bought mine from the US via a Line6 dealer there. But I wonder if there is either a hardware difference between earlier models and newer ones (eg the piezos) or an electronic difference? It certainly seems that many on here are delighted with the new models, while others are very disappointed (like me). And your 335 example sounds absolutely NOTHING like the one in my v2.0 firmware. Not even remotely like it. Yours sounds like a real 335. Mine sounded like a honky, thin, low level cheap tin guitar! As posted above - the sound that came out of mine lacked balls - the sound in your example had balls to spare! And being a huge fan of Larry Carlton, I must admit that I do like a 335 to sound like a 335... ;) It remains a mystery to me why opinions are so different, and why my experience was so bad despite downloading and flashing a total of three times. Incidentally, just for the record, I played your .wav file on the computer plugged into my good studio monitors. Playing my Variax via those three amps would normally (and does with v1.9) give plenty of guts to the sounds. Is anyone aware of differences between earlier and newer JTVs that could cause such differing results from the firmware update? Hugo? Line6?

Yes - I re-flashed twice, in fact. All sounded the same - bad. Thin sounds, honky mid-range, just as if they were out of phase. Yet the v1.9 sounds absolutely fine - go figure..! That's interesting about you switching something that suddenly made everything sound good - I did plenty of model switching while I was checking out the new sounds, but nothing happened like the situation you described. Wonder if it IS a bug in the firmware? Or an incompatibility somewhere? My JTV-69US was bought from the US (I'm in Australia) over 18 months ago - wonder if anything has changed? But I'm sticking with v1.9 - it works for me, I'm happy with it, and I don't need the hassles that v2.0 was giving me. Thanks for your comments - appreciated :)

Hi Solidjiver :) Although I have a POD HD500, I didn't use it to test the firmware upgrade of the JTV-69US. THe Pod adds too much of its own thing, and although I love it (as well as my DT50) I also do a lot of gigs using just the Variax into a clean amp, with no Pod in the line. So when I tested the models in the firmware update I plugged the Variax straight into the front of one of the cleanest amps I have - an original Music Man HD130 212. I also used a Blackstar HT60 212, and of course my DT50 212 set to the Fender Twin setting. I wanted to check the models for their own sound, not the sound that was altered by the Pod or any other pedals etc. And although I did check a couple of the models out with some overdrive (mainly the Lester models, using the Blackstar channel 2 for pure amp overdrive - no pedals), most of my listening was done by playing the Variax into clean amps. Same after I rolled back the firmware to v1.9. And the previous firmware was way better - it was, in fact, back to the way it was, and the way that has been making me a very happy gigger until I upgraded to v2.0 I honestly don't think I could have gone out doing the gigs I do (3 different cover bands is where I mainly use the Variax) using the new firmware. Back on v1.9 I'm back on safe ground. So I'll wait until v2.1 or 2.2 and I'll read the comments on here BEFORE updating next time, as I have usually done. Don't know what got into me, really - jumping in prematurely like that... ;) I have no idea why your models would suddenly sound different after switching something via the Pod, unless the firmware is designed mainly to be used via a Pod and relies on it. But that's no good for me - I need my JTV-69US to be a standalone instrument, and use the Pod occasionally. PS: The only adjusting of the levels I did was using the slider at the bottom left of the main window in the new WorkbenchHD. I just raised the Tele and the Spank levels by a couple of dB - didn't seem to add any noticeable distortion, but it did make the levels match a bit better when switching between the mag pickups and the modelling mode.

OK - I just spent an hour mucking about with WorkbenchHD, trying to get the v2 firmware models to sound even vaguely as good as the v1.9 models. Failed miserably. It could take days of work - and I just don't have the time or the patience for that, so I rolled back to v1.9 Firmware - and I'm happy again. Everything is back to the way it was. The Spank models, especially in positions 1,2 and 3 sound VERY close to my '62 L-series real Strat. The 335 now sounds like my 335, and the Jazzboxes sound like various switch positions on my Gibson ES-175. And the Tele sounds, especially on switch position 1, very close to my real Tele with Texas Specials in it. So, I'm holding off on upgrading again - I'm sticking with v1.9. My problem now is having to go back to Workbench (previous version) and setting it up again - a job for tomorrow methinks. I should have known better than to jump straight into an update before reading the forums.!

Wow - I have to say I'm very underwhelmed and disappointed. Just updated my JTV-69US to v2 firmware, and so many of the new models are terrible! Many of them (all the Teles, the Strats, even the 335) sound almost out of phase, honky, thin, and with volumes lower than the mags with the modeling turned off. I also updated to WorkbenchHD, and tweaked the volume levels of those models to bring them up 2-3dB, which helps with the volume matching, but the sounds are still horrible. I'm going to have to do some serious work with Workbench to try and get these models to sound even halfway decent, but if I can't, then it's time to roll back the firmware. Just for reference, I also have some guitars with which to compare the models, including a '62 L-series Strat (which sounds wonderful but NOTHING like the Spank models in the new firmware. The previous firmware sounded very close) I also have a 335 which sounds like a 335 because it IS one. But NONE of the "Semi" models in the new firmware sound anything like my 335. I also have an ES-175 jazzbox, and the "Jazzbox" models on the previous firmware sounded very close, particularly in a couple of the switch positions. But not now - they sound dull, lifeless, low volume, and thin. In fact, my impression of almost all the models in the new firmware - with the exception of the Lesters - is that they are all THIN sounding. Surely digital modelling software can't somehow load into the guitar and be out of phase? Because that's just what it sounds like.... I think I'll re-load v2 firmware to make sure it's not corrupted somehow, but if that fails, then it's back to the previous version I'm afraid.