rodmoyes

Fair enough in terms of my issue being different from the OP. Related, but different. My bad. As for guns blazing... huh? I asked for help while expressing my frustration with a unit that you all are familiar with and therefore might have some helpful advice. Perhaps I failed somehow to make my particular issue clear in the beginning, because the answers I got were not relevant to my case. On it's own, that's no big deal, but when there's snarky attitudes accompanying those answers, that's just being a dbag. If my brief mention of being somewhat knowledgeable as a professional bothers you, suck it up. It was simply to quantify that I'm not a 15 year old kid playing a Wal-Mart First Act into a 15W practice amp in my bedroom and having no clue what I'm doing. Clearly I don't know everything, because I was seeking assistance. If my taking issue with smug, self-righteous Aholes and bullies offends you... well, you just might be one. I treat people how I want to be treated. I also don't abide people being dooshie for the sake of being dooshie. Screw me right? Well, I have good news for you: today, I figured out how to solve the issue once and for all and am very pleased about not having to ditch my HD. In even better news, I will now leave you to practice the fine art of being dooshbags to one another without my atrocious civility getting in your way. I learned a lot in my short time here. Nothing about the unit, bur plenty about how easy it is for people to be internet tough guys and basic dbags. Thanks for the education, and for those who aren't angry trolls, feel free to PM me and I'll happily share my solution with you. Asta pasta modeler mafiosos.

Ahh, finally, someone who acutally read and addressed the issue. Look guys, I didn't come here to start a fight or anything. I came here because I thought maybe one of you would have some insight into the issue I'm having. Again, my google searches tell me that I am far from alone in my frustration, and the fact that a forum dedicated to a device that is now what? 5 years old? just HAPPENED to already have a thread on the very same topic on the FRONT PAGE, is further evidence that this is indeed a problem. I don't mean to be unappreciative of tips and pointers at all. It is however, frustrating when those suggestions are based on something entirely different from the actual issue. This is why I tried to be exceptionally clear in describing it as a final volume output problem and not one of tonal variations. I would prefer not to dump this unit, because aside from this one mind bending issue, I really love it. The amount of flexibility and quality of sound is outrageous for something that cost so little in comparison to an AXE FX II or Kemplar etc. It seems extremely likely, that it is that very flexibility that is the source of the problem here. The sheer number of variables and routing options is a recipe for exactly what I am experiencing. I understand that the BOSS GT-10 has a similar issue, which stands to reason, because it too is of this new generation of multi-fx with multiple routing options and signal chain allocation options, along with varying input impedence options (which to answer a question asked above, no. I do not have my input set to "Auto". I leave it 1M, and barring any complications such as a broken string, I use ONE guitar during our live performances. Yes, I bring back up guitars just in case). As for the suggestion above regarding basing all of your patches on one template in terms of amp model etc... That is both an excellent way to mitigate the issue and a complete defeating of the units strongest selling point. In my case, I am using the unit solely for live performances of those wonderfully weird alternative 80's songs wherein the main goal of most of those guitarists was to make their guitar sound like anything other than a guitar. Most of these songs are soaking wet with modulation and delay effects as well as others, and the number of different amps used by those guys was just crazy. It was really down to whatever they could afford to pick up second hand upon first starting out and stuck with them because they had built their sound around whatever that amp was. The HD 500 does an incredible job of getting those little nuances with uncanny precision. For that fact, I absolutely admire it. I just want an easier way to amke all of the dozens of wildly different patches to reach the amplification input at a fairly consistent level.Cost isn't even really a consideration here. Sure, it's nice that it was only $500, but if I wanted an AXE FX II or similar, I would just get one. Our first lead guitarist (RIP) was an absolutely brilliant guy and amazing musician with a savant like mastery of tone creation. Watching him lug that AXE FX unit and all of it's ancilliary components around (along with an AC30) and then having to dance around on the MIDI controller all night like Gregory Hines on a 4 day meth bender made me completely sure that I don't want to go there. Last thing, as far as getting a bit sideways in my last post. Whether the offending statement was directed at me or not is irrelevent. The whole idea of creating threads such as this, is to share knowledge and experiences in an effort to better understand the particular topic at hand. It is a community, one of fellow musicians and fans/users of a common item. I have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to any form of "EThuggery". Answering someones questions by assailing them with names and condescension will find no quarter with me. I'm the nicest guy in the world... right up until I see someone unjustly bullying or deriding someone else who is simply seeking information. That's just Bush League and frankly says far more about the abuser than it does about the subject of that abuse. Capice? Back in High School, they used to call me "Linderman". If you're around my age, you likely can imagine why. Don't act like Matt Dillon, and I won't have to go Adam Baldwin. There are a few guys on here who know me well from other forums, I'm sure they'd all tell you how friendly and knowledgable I am and how easy to get along with. I love to be part of the solution whenever I can. They'll also tell you that I am not someone who abides DBaggery. So, thanks to those who were welcoming and helpful. It is genuinely appreciated.

Hmm, maybe this isn't the place for me after all. Amateur? Really? Not to be a lollipop, but I for one could not have possibly been more clear in stating that I am NOT talking about tonal dynamics changing with volume. My very simple issue is SOLELY one of absolute final output volume, and the difficulty in matching that volume across multiple patches with drastically differing models and individual affects. I have never had this issue with any other processor. Ever. And I have owned or used almost eveythingout there over the years. So as much as I appreciate all of the lessons about car stereos with loudness buttons, and basic physics for dummies etc... I'd prefer you save the condescension for for someone who deserves it. The next time I'm sitting at the console in a multimillion dollar studio next to a massively respected producer while a Grammy winning artist does their thing on the other side of the glass, and I'm getting handsomely paid for my efforts, I'll be sure to pop right over to this forum for pointers if I get stumped. Please forgive my obvious ignorance.

No sweat, I think I'm not making my particular gripe clear. I'm not talking about tonal differences at volume, I am very aware of how volume affects tone and the purpose of "loudness" buttons etc. My issue has zero to do with tonal inconsitencies. One of the main reason I use both the Roland Amps and Multi-FX units is because they both do a remarkable job of maintaining their tonal characteristics at varying volume levels. If I was plugging dirt pedals and an MXR into an old tube amp, I would know all too well that even a slight bump in channel or master volume could completely change the tonal dynamics. I get that. My issue is Total Final Output Volume Level. Nothing more complicated than that, just the level of the final signal leaving the unit before going to the amp. When you create one patch using a Marshall model and high gain, maybe add some extra dirt, compression etc, you have multiple points along the virtual chain that affect that final volume level and depending on their position in the chain, their affect on volume is different. So, you get your patch sounding like you want it, and at something OTHER than mind bending volume levels, you are comfortable with the level. Now, you create your next patch, maybe this time it's an AC30 or a Blackface, you don't use the amp gain, but instead use a heavy distortion modeler. Again, you painstakingly adjust the output level on the stomp box model, channel volume, master voume, maybe tweak the mixer stage a little bit to the point at which this new patch appears to be of fairly equal total volume. Then you go to rehearsal or a gig and find out that both patches still sound great in terms of tone, but are vastly different in volume. THIS is my dilemna, and I have read countless complaints from other folks suffering the same issue. As I stated before I certainly can drive a half hour to the rehearsal studio with my HD 500 and my guitar/s and a laptop (because lets face it, the editor on the unit itself is its own travesty) so I can use the visual editor, then sit there cooking my my ears while I create or tweak patches, but I have NEVER had to do that before and if that is honestly the only way around the problem, I don't have the time or inclination to go through that level of insanity and inconvenience. This stuff is supposed to make your life easier remember? The problem (as I also previously mentioned) is a simple matter of there being far too many paramaters that can affect the FINAL output volume. You definitely need some, or most of these, but not typically all of them at the same time, and trying to balance them is a nightmare. If you could "Bypass" some of these parameters, or disable the front panel knobs, or any of several other easily accomplished modifications it would make life much eaier. In fact, I would LOVE it if they simply added the ability to disable the front panel knobs completely. As you know, accidently touching ANY of them during a performance will ruin your whole day. While they are at it, they can add a disable feature to the bloody looper switch and tap/tune switch as they are too close to the volume pedal for my gigantic clodhoppers to avoid clicking when going for the volume pedal. Nothing say "Fun" quite like being on a dark stage with a guitar around your neck and a two tier keyboard stand in front of you with your FX unit directly beneath it as you try and sing and play guitar and then unkowningly activate the looper. That is awesome (Not Line 6's fault, but it would be a great feature). I finally had to create my own means to disable the looper :) Edit: PS, the idea of adding a compressor at the end of the chain only works if you aren't using any delay or reverb in particular. Otherwise, it's a sonic $417Storm.

Yeah. Thanks again. At the risk of sounding snide (not my intent), as I mentioned before, I'm no stranger to this stuff. I won't bore you all with details, but I've been a professional for a long, long time and have a pretty good wealth of knowledge and experience including a tone of engineering work on some very succesful records. I'm known as the the guy who can always get the sound in your head to come out of the speakers. Tones and their creation are gravy. I understand the physics you mentioned, but disagree... it is absolutely the device. No way around that fact. Not only is it the device, but it's an issue that I'm certain could be addressed via firmware update. If nothing else, but to help mitigate the issue. The problem is everything to do with the amount of parameters that can affect output volume. The amp model, cabinet choice, mic choice, mic placement, master (amp) volume, Channel volume, compression output level. gain amount AND output level and on and on and on. Add in the ability to allocate each item to a patch specific place in the virtual signal chain and it's a recipe for disaster. Sorry, it just is. I can fire up any one of my BOSS or Digitech units and create 20 different patches using headphones and be CERTAIN that the volumes for each will be dead on consistent. If I seriously have to plug this thing into a pair of JC 120's at gig volume to get the same result, that's just ludicrous and quite frankly terrible execution on the builder's part. Thanks agin for clarifying my worst suspicions. It doesn't make me happy, but at least I now know for sure that I'm not crazy.

I appreciate the response. We play generally large clubs/venues/outdoor events etc. WHich means, that we play quite loud more often than not. I run the outputs of my HD 500 to a PAIR of Roland JCs... yeah, that should give you an idea of volume. I don't CRANK the JCs, but even at the lower settings, they are unholy in terms of output. We rehearse in a professional studio, but not at anywhere near the volume of our shows. This is what makes it most frustrating. At rehearsal, everything sounds relatively close, and then when show time comes around I once again find myself completely caught off guard by the discrepencies. So yes, sincerely I do thank you fo rthe response. Unfortunately it just further confirms my fear that the only real work around is to program my patches at gig level. I certainly could do that, but there's not a snoball's chance in Phoenix on the 4th of July that I'm going to do that, nor should I have to. The fact that this is the case is actually a very unflattering indictment against this unit that is otherwise quite great. It's a further indictment against Yamaha/Line 6 that they can't incorporate a very basic function that has been standard on virtually EVERY Multi FX unit produced since the 1980s. Sorry, but if that is the reality, it's appaling and unacceptable. I'll gladly sacrifice some of the Gucci tonal pallete goodies and signal chain routing in favor of controllability. No electronic device has ever beaten me. First time for everything I suppose, but I surrender. It's like a bad joke and I'm not laughing. This is brutally simple stuff made mindbogglingly convoluted in the name of customization. Very disappointing. Back to BOSS for my Live Rig. I can't be ar$ed to tinker with this thing any further. Great community you have here, long time lurker. Thanks again for the insight.

Hey guys, I've been sifting through the thousands of volume related posts regarding (in my case) the HD 500. Not just here in the Line 6 community, but I have scoured the web and have yet to find an article, post or response that really addresses the heart of the matter by offering a simple solution, Here's the thing: I'm no Newbie, nor am I a techophope. I have been a music industry professional for nearly 30 years, I have also been a complete gadget geek forever. Aside from working with some of the biggest names in music both live and in studio, I am a bona fide FX Junkie who grew up listening to and inspired by the innovators of the late 70s/early80s New Wave and Post Punk players that relied heavily on FX. I have either owned or used pretty much every major Multi FX processor introduced over the last 20 plus years. We're talking about serious old school dinosaurs here that predate the 2101 Artist Pro and the like by several years. I have had many great experiences with Boss, ART, Digitech etc. Stick prety much anything by anyone of those builders in front of me, and I can program in the sound I want blindfolded and with little effort. I've had my HD 500 for about 2.5 years, and was mainly using it at home to record direct to DAW. I love the sounds I can get, have no issues dialing in the tones I want. However, Since I started using it for live gigs wherein I fully embrace my midlife crisis by establishing a local San Diego Cover Band that plays Obscure 80's music, this infernal machine has been the bain of my existence. Seriously. I have read everything, tried everything, yet still have WILD volume discrepencies from patch to patch. At "normal" volumes, they seem fairly equal. I even went to far as place an EBOW on the G string and let it sustain at a constant level while I cycled through every patch with the outputs going to direct to interface and a DAW metering the input level while I made adjustments. I thought that was a stroke of genius, turns out it was a terrible idea. We performed at a private party this past Saturday evening that was an exceptionally high paying gig in a very exclusive community. I was sure I had everything dialed in, but at showtime, at gig volume it was an absolute trainwreck. I was mortified. I spent the entire evening looking like an amateur because I was endlessly reaching down to adjust the volume levels. I can't deal with it anymore. The wealth of virtual signal routing options and signal chain variations is a great feature for creating tones, and is an absolute nightmare cluster$^&% in terms of volume management. I've see hundreds of requests for Line 6 to address this issue, I have seen NOTHING from Line 6 that suggest they even ackowledge the issue, let alone have any intent of addressing it. This is madness. The "Global Volume" of the "Master" output level... ISN'T. Far from it. I guess it depends on "where" that hardware dial was set when the patch was created?, but from patch to patch, it "forgets" where it SHOULD be. I'm out of ideas and patience. I am 100% certain that there is a relatively easy firmware patch that could mitigate this travesty, either by bypassing certain volume parameters or creating a ture "Global" output level. The recent addition of a Global EQ proves that this is possible. BTW, that Global EQ is atrocious and quite insulting considering the fact that I never saw a lot of people asking for such a thing while at the same time practically begging for a volume solution. I won't perform another show with this thing until there is either some sort of software fix, or someone is able to explain to me how (besides locking myself in the rehearsal studio with a laptop and my amps and tinkering with this bloody device at ear bleeding volume levels) to sort this insanity. I would seriously drag my ancient Digitech RP3 or ART ECC units out of the closet and use them on stage before I go through that nonsense again. For now, it looks like the GT 8 has become my new live rig, which doesn't make me happy. I love the Line 6 tones, but the volume issue is simply unacceptable. I have other Line 6 gear that I really like, but this experience is seriously turning me off from any future purchases of their gear. Somebody help me please before I put this thing on Craigslist