mdoolin

Codamedia, I apologize if I misread your tone. And thank you for your replies, and for your true intent to be helpful. Regarding restoring from a backup right before a gig: what good is a backup, or a system, that you can't restore right when you need it? Now, I wouldn't do a firmware update right before a gig, any more than I'd update my recording software right before a session. Updates can contain new bugs, or changed features that don't work as expected. But a backup is a known good state of the data, and should be reliable at any time. And in the case of a catastrophic data loss right before a gig, restoring from a backup would save the day. But backups aren't just there to recover from catastrophe. Again, they are a known good state of the data, a saved version, which can be reverted to after experimenting to get back to an earlier version. At least, that's how backups work on every other system I've ever used. I can adjust my expectation if this is how this particular system works, but IMHO I don't think I should have to. Not when there's a possible change to the system that would make it work like other systems do, so that nobody would ever be caught by this quirk again. No engineer, or engineering team, can think of everything. That's why there are firmware updates. Again, I think Helix is a marvel of good design overall. But I stand by my assertion that this one behavior is counter-intuitive, inelegant, and outright dangerous. It is, in point of fact, a bug. I've proposed a fix for it (forcing the rebuild as part of restore), and I'd like to hear from Line 6 staff what they think about it. Digital_Igloo? And, I'd like to keep the conversation open. There may be other, better solutions. But I don't think "that's just the way it is" is a good answer, and I'd be very surprised and disappointed if Line 6 had that attitude.

Cybersnyder admits that his is a fringe case, but I would say it isn't quite so fringe. If you're a solo performer, maybe you do have the luxury of verbally entertaining the crowd while you deal with technical difficulties. But there are many professional performance situations where this just isn't acceptable. If you're a sideman, you need to be ready to play the very second the leader counts the tune off. There is no "give me 15 seconds". The first time that happens will probably be your last gig with that artist. I've never played an NFL game, but I would imagine that it's much like live TV, every second is worth big bucks. It seem to me that Cybersnyder is a professional who is stating the requirements of his working situation. We'd all best listen, we might learn something about the real world of working musicians.

I have an idea about this... when you restore from a backup, Helix is able to run with the old presets, whether the versions match or not. The restore doesn't take as long as the rebuild, so maybe it's only rebuilding the current preset. Regardless, it is functional at that point, until you reboot. This whole problem would be avoided if Helix did the rebuild as part of the restore. It would make the restore take quite a bit longer, but it's already a couple of minutes, and it's not something people would do every day. Since the rebuild is going to happen anyway, why not do it up front?

Backups, by definition, are "old" - earlier states of the data. What made this backup not up to date was a subsequent firmware update, which is conceptually an unrelated event. I loaded the preset, everything worked perfectly. Until the next time I booted. How could I have known "how it works" - there's no mention in the documentation. If this is how the system works, and Line 6 believes it to be the best solution, OK. Now I know. Regarding the tone of your reply: your pride in the products you represent is laudable. Your arrogance is not.

As Duncann thought, I probably did restore from a backup from an earlier firmware version. But apparently that would cause the preset rebuilding sequence every time? I'm going to delete those old backups so I don't get caught by this again, I don't really need them. On the other hand, I can see how this could happen again - if I update the firmware tomorrow, my most recent backups would cause the same rebuilding if I were to load them. I do understand the need to update presets when the data structure has changed, that gives you flexibility to add features. It's just the business of it doing it the next time I boot. At a minimum, I would suggest putting something in the manual about restarting after loading old presets to force a rebuild. But ideally, IMHO there must be a better solution. Please understand, from my point of view, the Helix let me down on my gig! I had no way of knowing that simply loading an old preset in the afternoon would make the unit non-functional for five minutes that night. I was in a similar situation to the OP in that I had literally seconds to set up, plug in, and play, and I was expecting the normal ~20 second boot time. That was a very uncomfortable five minutes for me, leading a 12 piece band in front of 500 people. And please also know that IMHO the Helix is one of the most elegantly designed, intuitive to use pieces of digital gear I've had the pleasure of using. It's so beautifully designed that a potentially disastrous quirk like this kinda stands out, and I hate that it's undermined my confidence in an otherwise rock-solid piece of gear that I depend on at every gig.

Thanks for the explanation. I can't help thinking there must be a more elegant solution, one without the potential for an onstage disaster like I experienced. But all systems have their quirks, and there is a workaround.

Yes, it might well be a backup from a previous firmware version. Again, I don't have a problem with a long update process, it can take overnight as far as I'm concerned. I just don't think it should wait until the next time I power up to do it. It should do all its business at the time of the update, and operate normally the next time I run it.

I have an issue with boot time, but it's not the usual ~20 second boot time, it's only after restoring from a backup or after a firmware update. When I do either of those things, the next time I boot the Helix it takes more like five minutes to boot up! It says it's updating the patches. I can understand why it might take that long after a firmware update, but why doesn't it just take care of that at the time of the update? The display cheerily says "Update completed!", and the Helix operates normally. But then when I power down, take it to the gig, and power back up, it does this extremely long boot. This happened to me last night at a gig where we had to strike the stage for the opening act and then set up again and play in about a minute. Ordinarily that wouldn't have been a problem, but I had restored from a backup between setup and our set, so I ended up standing there like an idiot waiting for the Helix to boot up while the band played the first entire tune without me. Again, I can understand why the system would have to perform this process, but why not have it do it at the time of the update, not the next time you power up?

Thanks everybody for your ideas. I think my problem was that I started with the IEMs (since that was mostly what I was planning to do with the Helix) and then that sound didn't work with the other systems. So, I decided to go about it in reverse, starting with the amp and just effects and getting that to sound right (which was easy). Then I added the amp model and IR and ran it to the floor monitor, and with a little tweaking that worked well too. And then, I tried the IEMs, and discovered that they're rather dark sounding. I think they were designed for impressive bass response, which they certainly have. The highs are there, they're just relatively subdued. So then I put an eq on just the IEMs and boosted the highs until the models sounded like they do through the floor monitor. It's going to take a separate EQ to make the separate cabinet work, I suppose because as DundinDragon pointed out, there's no mic involved there. But the IEMs and PA scenario is mostly what I'm doing, and that's working well now. Thanks again! Incidentally, I'm running my IEMs out of the headphone jack and running my monitor mix from the PA into the mic in. I have path 1b separated to take the mic in and go to the 1/4" out while everything else goes to the XLR out. That was one of the selling points for me, that it could replace my pedalboard, amp *and* IEM system. I've used this two different ways - if I get my own monitor mix, I run that into the mic in; if not, I just use an ambient condenser mic onstage to pick up the band.

Hi all, I'm a new Helix user and for the most part loving it. For decades I've been an "old Fender combo and analog pedal board" player, playing in lots of different situations from duos to 5-piece rock to 12-piece R&B horn bands. For the last few years I've been using In Ear Monitors whenever I can, and they're pretty great, they cut down the volume and yet let me hear my tone really well. And that's what led me to Helix - realizing that if monitoring a mic straight off the speaker cone in IEMs was good, maybe getting rid of the mic and speaker would be better yet. And for the most part, it is. I replicated my pedal board layout and signal chain plus the amp and speaker (US Double Vib head with a D130 IR to simulate my Vibrosonic) and with a little tweaking it sounds great in my IEMs. Now here's the problem I'm running into. If I run the XLR out into the PA or a floor monitor, the sound is very bright and harsh and somewhat lacking bass response. I would think that a good quality floor monitor (JBL EON) would sound pretty similar to good quality IEMs (Campfire Audio Atlas) but they're nowhere close. To get me through a gig I put a graphic EQ on the XLR out and rolled everything from 4k up off 6 dB or more and boosted 125 and 250 3db. That seems like a pretty extreme difference between two ostensibly FRFR systems. Another variant on this: I have a 1x15 cabinet with a D130 in it and a little 50 watt Stewart power amp. So it seemed to me that if I disabled the IR in my Helix chain, the combination should again sound pretty similar. But it's even harsher and brighter. Finally, I disabled all the amp and speaker modeling and ran the 1/4" output into my Vibrosonic, so the Helix is just operating as a pedalboard. That works great, except the distortion model that works well in IEMs is, again, harsh and bright, like a can of bees. I switched over to the Teemah overdrive and that sounds great through the amp. But it didn't sound good at all through IEMs or the floor monitor. Am I asking too much of this thing? Ideally, I'd like to have one preset that runs my IEMs and XLR feed to the PA and sounds similar in both, and that I can turn off the speaker model and drive a guitar cab, and turn off both amp and speaker models to drive a guitar amp. It seems like that should work! But at a minimum, I do need my IEMs and the PA feed to sound similar, since that's mostly what I'm doing with the Helix. Thanks in advance for any ideas and advice!