HX Stomp as Amp Only

[emeryj79]

Just received my HX Stomp.  I'm looking to use it as a replacement for my amp and haven't been able to find any answers for my question yet.  I play on the worship team for a mega church with multiple campuses and may have to travel frequently with my rig.  Not having to take an amp and dial it in every time is my goal.  I have an existing pedalboard I used with my Hot Rod Deluxe.  I'm looking to replace the Deluxe with the HX Stomp (and hopefully have better tone in the process).  Here's my question:  My old setup was pretty basic...

 

Noise Gate>Compressor>OD>Volume>Amp Input 1>Amp Preamp Out>Modulation FX (delay, reverb, etc)>Amp Power Amp In.

 

I'm eliminating the amp and am trying to set the blocks correctly.   To mimic the same setup, would my first block be a Preamp, 2nd FX Loop, 3rd Amp/Cab (Or Amp>IR>Cab, etc)?  Not sure how to differentiate between the Preamp In and Power Amp out (where to insert the modulation FX).  The way I'm thinking the signal chain is:

 

Noise Gate>Comp>OD>Volume>HX Input>HX FX Send>Delay>Reverb>HX FX Return>HX Output>FOH

 

Setting up my blocks in the proper order is my issue.  Should it be Preamp>FX Loop>Amp/Cab to mimic the same setup I had?  I can always add in other modulation such as chorus, flange, after the loop and before the power amp if I need to, but I'm trying to figure out the correct order for a basic setup utilizing the pedals I already have programmed.  I know this pedal can take the place of most, if not all of the pedals on my board, but again I'm just trying to eliminate the amp at this point.  My setup worked great the way it was, just looking for more portability.  The ability to switch to an AC30, to a Matchless to a Twin Reverb between songs is just a bonus.  Any help in setting my blocks in the correct order would be greatly appreciated!!!

[Kilrahi]

I have a feeling this is going to be long as hell as it's late, I'm bored, and I'm hoping my last half a year of HX Stomp info dump will be useful for you. The below is FAR from all that can be learned from the device, and I've no doubt others see it differently or have different tips, but hopefully some of the below is a useful starting point for experimentation. Buckle up!

 

The hard part with diagnosing exactly how you want to use your chains is I'm not sure which pedals on your board you're wanting to keep and which ones you are wanting to discard. As a Stomp user, the more you can save on blocks the better. One thing to keep in mind, most users would NOT use a pre-amp - those are options for when people are using a traditional amp and skipping the traditional amp's pre-amp. I say MOST because for almost everything out there there is an exception to the rule. For example, I've seen some people use them almost like extra distortion pedal choices. It can be cool, but I wouldn't start there when you're just getting your feet wet.

 

So let's imagine, just for the sake of easy peasy, that you have only ONE pedal and it's a delay pedal. Here's how I would personally do the Stomp chain:

 

[OD Block] + [Volume Block] + [Amp + Cab block] + [FX Send/Return Block] + [Reverb Block] = 5 blocks with room for 1 more

 

In the above imaginary setup, the FX send/return block would be where your REAL delay pedal was housed. You could also use other pedals along with it, and they would all be part of that signal chain.  There's a few things to keep in mind:

 

1. This is not EXACTLY like your real amp setup (i.e. you don't have your time based effects sitting in between a pre-amp and an amp). This distinction is generally believed (and I agree with it) to not matter in the world of modelling, but it's also kind of something you don't have a choice about since the HX line does not have separate pre-amp and amp only blocks (the amp block INCLUDES the pre-amp - if you use both you're doubling up and often creating baked lollipop). There ARE people who try to come up with ways to feel like they're closer modelling the real world setup, but in my opinion there is no real gain to doing this. You can form your own opinions, but I still wouldn't recommend you start there, ESPECIALLY with only six blocks. 

 

2. A lot of Helix users like separating the amp and cab blocks. I don't believe this is because the amp/cab block is weaker than split versions of themselves, but rather because the full Helix has SO many blocks that it allows them more control doing it this way (i.e. when in this habit they can have one amp split into separate paths with two cabs, etc.). Technically you can still do some of this craziness with the Stomp, but again, with only 6 blocks, I generally think it's not worth it and it's better to use the combo.

 

3. Many people believe that the stock cabs aren't near as good as 3rd party IRs. I do not share this view, but a lot of people do and it's not a path you should ignore if you find you aren't getting the stock cabs to sound like you want. Even if you do like them, there's nothing wrong with choices. I have a few IRs, and I prefer stock cabs, but I'm glad I have the IRs, may purchase more someday, and I do play with them from time to time. If you were to do that, my original chain from above but with an IR would usually look like this:

 

[OD Block] + [Volume Block] + [Amp Block /NO cab] + [IR Block] + [FX Send/Return Block] + [Reverb Block] = 6 Blocks

 

As a Stomp user myself, I have found with creativity 6 blocks gets me there more often than not. Even with that said, I still use a pedal board sometimes, but when I do it is 100% about taking a load off the Stomp to allow for more creative crap (often with dual amps). In other words, the goal is to SAVE on blocks. My only reason for using real pedals is if I legitimately can not get that from the Stomp (like the freeze pedal) or to save on DSP in the Stomp. In my opinion, ALL of the Stomp's effects are awesome, but if you are going to nuke them distortions and reverbs are the best choices because they so often work great at the FRONT and the END of a signal chain, and I can incorporate them into the Stomp WITHOUT using an FX block. So for example this is how mine is laid out:

 

[Real EHX Freeze Pedal] + [Real Compressor] + [Real Distortion #1] + [Real Distortion #2] + [Real Distortion #3] + [HX Stomp amp] + [HX Stomp Split Path] + [HX Stomp split cabs] + [HX Stomp Delay] + [Real Reverb].

 

The problem with using other real effects instead of the Stomp's (like delays, phasers, flangers, etc.) is that often they sound best at a midpoint, which requires the use of a Stomp FX block - which eats a block.  You also often want trails for things like delays, and if you try that with a FX block and a real delay pedal you find it kills the trails and doesn't sound as good as you hope.

 

Finally, you can attach things like expression pedals and switches to the volume settings of amps and other volume settings within the Stomp often creating exactly what you are trying to do with a volume block, which is how you can often use that precious 6th block for something else. See the vid below for more of what I'm saying there. When I was first getting the Stomp, the below video was a game changer for getting me to think outside of a traditional view of things. It really is far more powerful than the old school way of looking at problems if you let it be.

 

 

 

[emeryj79]

Wow.  Fantastic response!  Thank you so much for all the information!  This is a huge help!

 

So the way I understand it per your description, the FX Loop Block inserts the path automatically where I would typically have it with a standard amp setup without need for distinction of inserting the loop between the preamp and power amp.  The FX Loop Block should be placed after the Amb/Cab Combo Block or the Amp+IR Blocks.  So my setup should look like:

 

[Real Noise Gate] + [Real Compressor] + [Real OD] + [Real Volume>(Stomp Input)] + [Amp/Cab Block or Amp + IR Block] + [FX Send/Return Block (Real Delay>Real Reverb)] (Stomp Output>FOH)

 

The only pedals I would be running through the FX Loop would be my Delay (DD-500) and my Reverb (RV-500).  With the type of music I play with this rig, I sometimes have to switch between a dotted 1/8th to an 1/8th (and sometimes even use both for a galloping effect).  Same goes with reverb... standard reverb most of the time, but sometimes have to switch to a washy/wet reverb for ambient swells.  I have BPMs pre-programmed per song in my BOSS pedals (which I know I can do on the Stomp as well, but I'm just used to using the setup I already have).  I shouldn't have any problem using up too many blocks by adding an FX Loop Block considering I'll only be using 1 or 2 blocks for the amp model. (I doubt I'll ever use 3-4 additional blocks, but you never know!)

 

Thank you again for the awesome information!!

[Kilrahi]

That's correct. That setup should work perfectly.  As an FYI, the FX block has a mixer on it. I believe it defaults to 50%, which means 50% of your dry signal passes through it.  If you move it to 0% all of your dry (with none of the external effects) are heard. If you move it to 100% you get all of the wet with no dry. Knowing this you can tweak the mixture to your liking.

 

Have fun . . .